rbtabris
New Around Here
Introduction: I am a software developer, but have never learned much about networking. I can keep up with advanced technical topics, but if something I've described here sounds like a "Duh, why did you do that?" detail, this is why. 
Clients:
Two Xbox 360s (slim model, purchased July 2011, built-in 11n wireless).
Router:
Apple Time Capsule, 11n wireless. A few years old now (probably 1st, maybe 2nd gen, acquired probably 3.5 years ago). Firmware 7.6.1.
Network:
Time Capsule broadcasts only on the 2.4GHz channel. WPA2 Personal network security.
Modem:
Linksys DOCSIS 3.0 Cable Modem (DPC3008-CC). The modem and router are connected with a 1ft-piece of Cat6 550 MHz cable.
ISP:
Comcast/XFINITY. We have their BLAST! service (50 down/10 up).
To note, I had an older modem up until a few months ago. Comcast contacted me with the offer to upgrade my modem. I don't remember what the old modem was, but this was a Speedtest.net test on my MacBook Pro (over wifi) with the old modem:
http://speedtest.net/result/2185982110.png
And this is a test with the modem listed above (over wifi):
http://speedtest.net/result/2342956174.png
The issue:
I'll be using Call of Duty titles as a point of reference. It's the game we play that we are most demanding of the connection.
My girlfriend and I each have an Xbox 360 Slim set up next to each other in the living room. We would play Call of Duty Black Ops together over Xbox LIVE. We've played primarily over the wireless network. We never had much issue in regards to connection. In addition to the two Xboxes, we each have a MacBook on the network, an iPhone, etc. We don't do any bandwidth-intensive activities (downloading large files, streaming audio or video, etc.) from our other machines while playing on Xbox LIVE.
Anyway, the game displays your NAT type in the multiplayer menu. For the longest time, we always each had an open NAT when playing. Months ago (summer time), out of the blue, we began to notice that we would, inconsistently, load the game and be flagged with a moderate NAT. As I said, there was unfortunately no consistency to it. We could turn the Xbox on and have a moderate NAT, turn it off, back on again, and have an open NAT.
When I got the newer modem listed above installed, I was dumbstruck. It seemed like our connection experience in the game had gotten worse, even though we were supposedly getting an additional 30mb down from the change.
(Gamer nerd note: we were playing Black Ops 1. It's possible that by that point in the game's life cycle (September 2012) that fewer people had been playing the game, so hosts were fewer and further between, etc. But it was a heck of a coincidence that it happened when we got the "better" modem.)
The inconsistent NAT type issues have continued. I began to research NAT type and Xbox LIVE. I read resources that you shouldn't get a moderate NAT if you plug in through Ethernet (is this true?). I've tried plugging each Xbox into the router through Ethernet (the gaming setup and router/modem are across the room from one another, so I'd connect them through 20ft Cat6 550 MHz Ethernet cable). Even through Ethernet, we would continue getting moderate NAT randomly.
Unfortunately, the Apple routers in general are not very liberal in their configuration options. I began looking into opening ports specified in Microsoft's Xbox LIVE NAT type support documentation, but the Time Capsule would only allow me to open the ports for one address (which translated into one Xbox).
Now the new Call of Duty title (Black Ops II) is out, and connection is the worst it's ever been. Even with us both plugged in through Ethernet, we'll randomly get moderate NAT, and the game lag is significant. (Note: there are a LOT of people who are saying the same thing about this game, so I don't think this is something localized to just my setup. Nevertheless, it's still a giant pain.)
Are there any others out there that have a multiple-Xbox setup that may be able to offer advice? I've continued doing research and have come across the concept of bufferbloat. I've tried plugging a single Xbox directly into the modem. I wasn't able to get the system to tell me I had a moderate NAT, and game lag seemed minimal. However, this isn't a feasible option for us, as only one device can plug into the modem. (However, if doing something like having multiple public IP addresses from my ISP and a modem that accepts two devices (? This is where I'm beginning to grasp at straws) is possible, I'll do it if it solves the issue.) UPDATE: Contacted Comcast regarding multiple public IPs and I would need to update to a "business class" account, and to get the same up/down speed it would be an extra $100/month, so this is no longer feasible. I am open to buying a new router, different equipment, etc. if it'll help the issue.
I was extremely pleased when I came across this site earlier today in my research, and was ready to snap-order a new modem from the information I gained from the articles I had read, but I figured I would try posting here before spending additional money and potentially not solving the real cause of the issue.
I know this post has a lot of content in it, but I wanted to try and be as descriptive as possible up front, to try and eliminate any ambiguities that would come up when seeking help. Thanks in advance for any advice you may be able to provide.
Clients:
Two Xbox 360s (slim model, purchased July 2011, built-in 11n wireless).
Router:
Apple Time Capsule, 11n wireless. A few years old now (probably 1st, maybe 2nd gen, acquired probably 3.5 years ago). Firmware 7.6.1.
Network:
Time Capsule broadcasts only on the 2.4GHz channel. WPA2 Personal network security.
Modem:
Linksys DOCSIS 3.0 Cable Modem (DPC3008-CC). The modem and router are connected with a 1ft-piece of Cat6 550 MHz cable.
ISP:
Comcast/XFINITY. We have their BLAST! service (50 down/10 up).
To note, I had an older modem up until a few months ago. Comcast contacted me with the offer to upgrade my modem. I don't remember what the old modem was, but this was a Speedtest.net test on my MacBook Pro (over wifi) with the old modem:
http://speedtest.net/result/2185982110.png
And this is a test with the modem listed above (over wifi):
http://speedtest.net/result/2342956174.png
The issue:
I'll be using Call of Duty titles as a point of reference. It's the game we play that we are most demanding of the connection.
My girlfriend and I each have an Xbox 360 Slim set up next to each other in the living room. We would play Call of Duty Black Ops together over Xbox LIVE. We've played primarily over the wireless network. We never had much issue in regards to connection. In addition to the two Xboxes, we each have a MacBook on the network, an iPhone, etc. We don't do any bandwidth-intensive activities (downloading large files, streaming audio or video, etc.) from our other machines while playing on Xbox LIVE.
Anyway, the game displays your NAT type in the multiplayer menu. For the longest time, we always each had an open NAT when playing. Months ago (summer time), out of the blue, we began to notice that we would, inconsistently, load the game and be flagged with a moderate NAT. As I said, there was unfortunately no consistency to it. We could turn the Xbox on and have a moderate NAT, turn it off, back on again, and have an open NAT.
When I got the newer modem listed above installed, I was dumbstruck. It seemed like our connection experience in the game had gotten worse, even though we were supposedly getting an additional 30mb down from the change.
(Gamer nerd note: we were playing Black Ops 1. It's possible that by that point in the game's life cycle (September 2012) that fewer people had been playing the game, so hosts were fewer and further between, etc. But it was a heck of a coincidence that it happened when we got the "better" modem.)
The inconsistent NAT type issues have continued. I began to research NAT type and Xbox LIVE. I read resources that you shouldn't get a moderate NAT if you plug in through Ethernet (is this true?). I've tried plugging each Xbox into the router through Ethernet (the gaming setup and router/modem are across the room from one another, so I'd connect them through 20ft Cat6 550 MHz Ethernet cable). Even through Ethernet, we would continue getting moderate NAT randomly.
Unfortunately, the Apple routers in general are not very liberal in their configuration options. I began looking into opening ports specified in Microsoft's Xbox LIVE NAT type support documentation, but the Time Capsule would only allow me to open the ports for one address (which translated into one Xbox).
Now the new Call of Duty title (Black Ops II) is out, and connection is the worst it's ever been. Even with us both plugged in through Ethernet, we'll randomly get moderate NAT, and the game lag is significant. (Note: there are a LOT of people who are saying the same thing about this game, so I don't think this is something localized to just my setup. Nevertheless, it's still a giant pain.)
Are there any others out there that have a multiple-Xbox setup that may be able to offer advice? I've continued doing research and have come across the concept of bufferbloat. I've tried plugging a single Xbox directly into the modem. I wasn't able to get the system to tell me I had a moderate NAT, and game lag seemed minimal. However, this isn't a feasible option for us, as only one device can plug into the modem. (However, if doing something like having multiple public IP addresses from my ISP and a modem that accepts two devices (? This is where I'm beginning to grasp at straws) is possible, I'll do it if it solves the issue.) UPDATE: Contacted Comcast regarding multiple public IPs and I would need to update to a "business class" account, and to get the same up/down speed it would be an extra $100/month, so this is no longer feasible. I am open to buying a new router, different equipment, etc. if it'll help the issue.
I was extremely pleased when I came across this site earlier today in my research, and was ready to snap-order a new modem from the information I gained from the articles I had read, but I figured I would try posting here before spending additional money and potentially not solving the real cause of the issue.
I know this post has a lot of content in it, but I wanted to try and be as descriptive as possible up front, to try and eliminate any ambiguities that would come up when seeking help. Thanks in advance for any advice you may be able to provide.
Last edited:
