7000 sq ft house - wifi and no cat5

[robr]

I need to set up the network for a 7000 sq ft home. It was built in the 60s and the only structured wiring is for phones. Typically I use a Cisco 5505 router and Cisco 121s with PoE for WAPs (and an L2 or L3 switch if they want a guest wireless). Won't work here obviously. I hate using wireless repeaters as I haven't found reliability to be all that great, but the cost of running cat5 would be fairly substantial.

Any recommendations?

 

[thiggins]

If you have coax, try MoCA. Otherwise try using HomePlug AV (200 or 500 Mbps) to extend Ethernet to where you need it.

 

[robr]

If you have coax, try MoCA. Otherwise try using HomePlug AV (200 or 500 Mbps) to extend Ethernet to where you need it.

I've never used MoCA (short of the MoCA boxes that Comcast or Verizon might use). So I imagine I'd have a switch, and off the switch would be some sort of MoCA converter that goes ethernet to coax, and then at the other end, I'd have coax to ethernet? Is it still possible to put a cable box on that same coax?

I have a homeplug system at home for my security cameras, while it works 99% of the time, every now and then I have to unplug the AC modules and plug them back in, but perhaps things have improved as mine are several years old and were provided by Logitech with my cameras.

Update:
I've been reading about MoCA... looks like not many choices for adapters. ActionTec and Netgear. Do I need to have a pair of MoCA devices for each coax run, or is it one MoCA "transmitter" at the switch location and a bunch of MoCA "receivers", one at each location I'm going to place a WAP?

 

[thiggins]

You are correct that MoCA is more of a service provider play, with very limited choices. You'll find more adapters over on eBay.

You can think of MoCA like powerline. All the adapters talk to each other. MoCA is compatible with cable systems, but not satellite.

Powerline technology has come a long way since first-generation adapters. You can get up to 80 Mbps of actual throughput from 500 Mbps HomePlug AV adapters now. Check the Powerline Finder and Charts.

I'd give Powerline a shot. Be sure to take your old adapters offline while testing the new ones. They can lower the throughput of the new adapters.

 

[robr]

stupid question perhaps, but do any of these powerline adapters also work as PoE injectors?

 

[thiggins]

Nope. You'd have to use a local injector.

 

[robr]

NewEgg has the zyxel 4201 as PoE and the 4205 as not, but the zyxel datasheets dont mention PoE for either, so I imagine that's an error on newegg's part. Linksys apparently has a PoE model but it's only 200mbit. Which may be fine, but why go with an older generation of products. PoE just makes things cleaner but lack of it isn't a deal breaker.

 

[thiggins]

I see no mention of PoE in the Zyxel 4201 specs.

What Linksys product are you referring to? I think I've tested them all and don't recall any supporting PoE.

 

[robr]

Oops, it's a logitech product. And now that I look at it, it's the one I have for my Logitech security cameras. I'd never use these in a customer's home .

Zyxel without PoE it is. I've used their ZyWall routers and wireless SIP phones in the past and have been happy with those products.

 

[stevech]

robr ... for 7000 sq. ft., I advise try to do most of it with MoCA. Due to interference hassles on day 1 but moreso later when your AC connected devices attenuate the signal and cause no or degraded performance. Or best, case, too much care and feeding.

 

[sfx2000]

7000 sq ft - not really that big of a place - 83 ft by 83 ft - sounds big but it isn't - better to have a floor plan - I see one ingress router, two AP's placed in right locations on ethernet and it should cover the house and the yard outside.

I've got 23,000 sq ft coverage - house plus yard, and I get "5 by 5" inside the house and all corners of the yard with two standard AP's with a minimum of 30 Mbps - inside the house (1600 sq ft) very fast...

Run the CAT6 over the ceiling or on the baseboards...

 

[tipstir]

Well I use CAT5e and that can be run outside too. Over the roof beam down to the side of the house into the old dryer vent down to the underground garage in my 1927 home I had ran about 32 drops for 32 nodes. Drilled 1/4 holes into the oak flooring near the base board also through the window frames. The walls where too old to feed line through them at the time. Now with this newer place there is no basement so I have attic that I use to make drops to the areas I want to go with. I am more aiming with enterprise access points (EAP) with Poe and Tx power 27dBm should be enough hear for me there is a 30dBm.

 

[robr]

we'll have to do moca or powerline, the owner does not want to see any cables exposed. he pointed out where the previous owner had run coax from a cable jack down along the baseboard in one room and said get rid of that ****, i don't want to see any of that. the electric in the house may be complex, im no electrician, but it had a few panels and he said he had 600 amps coming into the house, 'enough to light up half the city'.

 

[tipstir]

PoE in older homes might not work out so well hows the wiring in the walls were you installing these devices. That MoCA over coax might be best route though.

 

[robr]

OK, I think I'm overthinking things and confusing myself. Been working on how to wire this solution for the past 2 hours, reading forums etc. This diagram has been pointed to in another forum several times, but I'm unsure as to where I'd put a 1x8 switch that connects all the coax runs throughout the house to the coax that comes in from the CACO

Also do I need a MoCA device at every TV location (no data at these locations)? Or can I connect to the wall jack as normal? Or do I need something that strips out the MoCA frequencies?

Edit: Thinking it thru a bit more after the break, I think what I'd be doing is the 1x8 would connect to the coax out of the MoCA

 

[tipstir]

Sounds like a plan. Let us know here how you make out with your project! Good Luck!

 

[robr]

Sounds like a plan. Let us know here how you make out with your project! Good Luck!

Will do. Hopefully I get it right first time out because this guy's house is about 2 hours from me.

 

[thiggins]

Not sure what you mean by a 1x8 coax switch? If you mean a passive splitter, MoCA should work through it, assuming that it is rated to pass frequencies at least to 1.5 GHz. If it's a 900 MHz splitter, you'll need to replace it.

You need one MoCA adapter at the point where you connect to your Ethernet network. Then other adapters wherever you want an Ethernet port.

 

[robr]

Not sure what you mean by a 1x8 coax switch? If you mean a passive splitter, MoCA should work through it, assuming that it is rated to pass frequencies at least to 1.5 GHz. If it's a 900 MHz splitter, you'll need to replace it.

You need one MoCA adapter at the point where you connect to your Ethernet network. Then other adapters wherever you want an Ethernet port.

Thanks. But I DONT need adapters at any location I want to connect a TV (and don't want a data port)?

 

[thiggins]

Thanks. But I DONT need adapters at any location I want to connect a TV (and don't want a data port)?

No. MoCA is providing Ethernet, not TV/cable signal.