Any routers with built in support for HFS+ or APFS (filesystems for Mac)?

[lagrave]

Many SOHO-routers (and 3rd party firmware) include a file server that allows me connect a hard drive to the router and share via SMB. Are there any routers that allows me to connect a hard drive formatted in HFS+ and/or APFS (the filesystems used by MacOS) and share that way?

 

[RMerlin]

Most higher end Asus routers support HFS+.

 

[lagrave]

Most higher end Asus routers support HFS+.

I noticed your signature. Does Merlin also support HFS+ [in the kernel]?

 

[RMerlin]

I noticed your signature. Does Merlin also support HFS+ [in the kernel]?

All the models that I currently support have HFS+ support, through the Tuxera driver Asus licenced.

 

[lagrave]

All the models that I currently support have HFS+ support, through the Tuxera driver Asus licenced.

Thanks a lot!

Is it stable and fast enough to be useable for Time Machine?

What high end ASUS-router would you recommend? Preferably a WiFi6(e) model. I am happy to buy something that's work in progress for you right now as long as it will be supported within six months, a year or so.

 

[John Davis]

Is it stable and fast enough to be useable for Time Machine?

What high end ASUS-router would you recommend? Preferably a WiFi6(e) model. I am happy to buy something that's work in progress for you right now as long as it will be supported within six months, a year or so.

timemachine doesn't require a native filesystem on the server end when backing up over SMB - it'll use sparsebundle's instead.

you will probably need to manually configure samba though to make the share a valid timemachine target - refer to this

https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/83vkaz

 

[RMerlin]

Is it stable and fast enough to be useable for Time Machine?

Time Machine being a proprietary technology, I would never trust it to work reliably on anything but Apple hardware, since anything non-Apple trying to implement support for it has to do it through reverse engineering, and could break at any time if Apple made any change to their implementation.

 

[John Davis]

Time Machine being a proprietary technology, I would never trust it to work reliably on anything but Apple hardware, since anything non-Apple trying to implement support for it has to do it through reverse engineering, and could break at any time if Apple made any change to their implementation.

timemachine to samba servers is widely used and well tested (remember Apple discontinued their own TimeCapsule hardware years back) - lots of QNAP and Synology NAS's being used as timemachine targets

 

[lagrave]

timemachine doesn't require a native filesystem on the server end when backing up over SMB - it'll use sparsebundle's instead.

I know, but I want to have the option to also connect the drive directly to a Mac, with good support for the filesystem, which rules out NTFS, EXT4 and so on and leaves me with HFS+/APFS and exFat. Hence my original question.

 

[lagrave]

Time Machine being a proprietary technology, I would never trust it to work reliably on anything but Apple hardware, since anything non-Apple trying to implement support for it has to do it through reverse engineering, and could break at any time if Apple made any change to their implementation.

But if they change something, that will most likely be widely known and you can adapt.

Any recommendations for a WIFI 6(e) router that will be supported by Merlin in the foreseeable future?

 

[John Davis]

I know, but I want to have the option to also connect the drive directly to a Mac, with good support for the filesystem, which rules out NTFS, EXT4 and so on and leaves me with HFS+/APFS and exFat. Hence my original question.

but that was my point - even if the drive is HFS+ when used over SMB it _will_ use sparsebundles - wheras when direct attached to the mac it won't. And of course if you're on BigSur it really wants the drive to be APFS for direct attached tm anyway.

what's the aim with having it sometimes network attached and sometimes direct attached? Backup speed?

 

[RMerlin]

But if they change something, that will most likely be widely known and you can adapt.

Unless that change lies invisible for a long time, until you actually need to restore something, and discover then that your backups hadn`t been working properly for a long time. It`s always a risk when proprietary technologies are involved, and people are relying on reverse engineering to implement it.

Any recommendations for a WIFI 6(e) router that will be supported by Merlin in the foreseeable future?

If you intend to use USB sharing, you`ll want to get a higher end model for the extra RAM and CPU, like the RT-AX86U or RT-AX88U. But like others suggested, I strongly recommend looking at a NAS instead, for both the performance and reliability. Plus, NAS manufacturers tend to be more active at maintaining/updating their Time Machine or SMB support, while on a product primarily intended as a router, it's mostly just a checkbox to tick for marketing purposes, and is rarely ever looked at again by developers. I know for instance that Asuswrt's TIme Machine implementation does not properly handle the free disk space management, that might work better however if you use plain SMB.

 

[sfx2000]

BigSur it really wants the drive to be APFS for direct attached tm

On spinning rust it's better to use HFS+

APFS is optimized for SSD's...

 

[sfx2000]

Unless that change lies invisible for a long time, until you actually need to restore something, and discover then that your backups hadn`t been working properly for a long time. It`s always a risk when proprietary technologies are involved, and people are relying on reverse engineering to implement it.

Exactly - and Apple doesn't document changes in TM

Generally it works, until it doesn't - and one is left wondering why it didn't.

Most of the issues I've seen with TM on Samba is when TM starts thinning the sparse bundle when it coalesces the backups over time - the links tend to break, and the sparse bundle may either corrupt outright or silently fail.

TM, even on OSX (as a host) or on TimeCapsules, should not be the only backup path taken...

 

[John Davis]

I know for instance that Asuswrt's TIme Machine implementation does not properly handle the free disk space management, that might work better however if you use plain SMB.

actually that's a generalised issue with timemachine to a SMB share - though on a full NAS you can work around it either using per-share or per-user quotas to stop the backup totally filling the volume

 

[lagrave]

but that was my point - even if the drive is HFS+ when used over SMB it _will_ use sparsebundles - wheras when direct attached to the mac it won't.

I know.

And of course if you're on BigSur it really wants the drive to be APFS for direct attached tm anyway.

what's the aim with having it sometimes network attached and sometimes direct attached? Backup speed?

A broken router and then you can't access your backups!

Performance.

Filesystem issues are easier to repair if the drive is connected directly to a computer.

 

[lagrave]

Unless that change lies invisible for a long time, until you actually need to restore something, and discover then that your backups hadn`t been working properly for a long time. It`s always a risk when proprietary technologies are involved, and people are relying on reverse engineering to implement it.

It is not that proprietary

Time Machine Over SMB Specification

Describes the requirements necessary for an SMB server to support Time Machine backups.

developer.apple.com

If you intend to use USB sharing, you`ll want to get a higher end model for the extra RAM and CPU, like the RT-AX86U or RT-AX88U. But like others suggested, I strongly recommend looking at a NAS instead,

I have a NAS, but it has its own problem:

Seagate NAS OS - enable encryption on unsupported device?

I have a LaCie 5big NAS Pro that runs NAS OS 4 (from Seagate/LaCie). The OS has support for volume encryption, see this page https://www.seagate.com/gb/en/support/kb/nas-os-4x-setting-up-volume-encryption-006007en/ . However, my device doesn't support that option - that is, it doesn't appear...

www.snbforums.com

for both the performance and reliability. Plus, NAS manufacturers tend to be more active at maintaining/updating their Time Machine or SMB support, while on a product primarily intended as a router, it's mostly just a checkbox to tick for marketing purposes, and is rarely ever looked at again by developers. I know for instance that Asuswrt's TIme Machine implementation does not properly handle the free disk space management, that might work better however if you use plain SMB.

What is the difference between "Time Machine implementation of SMB" and "plain" SMB?

 

[lagrave]

All the models that I currently support have HFS+ support, through the Tuxera driver Asus licenced.

I just connected a HFS+ formatted drive to my RT-AC66U but it wouldn't mount. From the log (what I think is interesting is highlighted)

Apr 6 20:52:56 kernel: usb 1-1.2: USB disconnect, address 3
Apr 6 20:52:56 rc_service: hotplug 1167:notify_rc restart_nasapps
Apr 6 20:52:56 NFS_Server: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:56 MediaServer: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:56 rc_service: hotplug 1177:notify_rc restart_nasapps
Apr 6 20:52:56 rc_service: waiting "restart_nasapps" via ...
Apr 6 20:52:56 FTP_Server: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:56 kernel: usb 1-1.2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 4
Apr 6 20:52:56 Samba_Server: smb daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:56 miniupnpd[459]: shutting down MiniUPnPd
Apr 6 20:52:56 kernel: hub 1-1:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 2
Apr 6 20:52:56 miniupnpd[1191]: HTTP listening on port 36782
Apr 6 20:52:56 miniupnpd[1191]: Listening for NAT-PMP/PCP traffic on port 5351
Apr 6 20:52:56 kernel: usb 1-1.2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 5
Apr 6 20:52:56 kernel: usb 1-1.2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
Apr 6 20:52:56 kernel: scsi1 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices
Apr 6 20:52:57 NFS_Server: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:57 MediaServer: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:57 rc_service: hotplug 1189:notify_rc restart_nasapps
Apr 6 20:52:57 rc_service: waiting "restart_nasapps" via hotplug ...
Apr 6 20:52:57 FTP_Server: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:57 Samba_Server: smb daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:57 miniupnpd[1191]: shutting down MiniUPnPd
Apr 6 20:52:57 miniupnpd[1206]: HTTP listening on port 60704
Apr 6 20:52:57 miniupnpd[1206]: Listening for NAT-PMP/PCP traffic on port 5351
Apr 6 20:52:57 kernel: usb 1-1.2: USB disconnect, address 5
Apr 6 20:52:58 kernel: usb 1-1.2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 6
Apr 6 20:52:58 kernel: usb 1-1.2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
Apr 6 20:52:58 kernel: scsi2 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices
Apr 6 20:52:58 rc_service: hotplug 1170:notify_rc restart_nasapps
Apr 6 20:52:58 rc_service: waiting "restart_nasapps" via hotplug ...
Apr 6 20:52:58 NFS_Server: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:58 MediaServer: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:58 FTP_Server: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:58 Samba_Server: smb daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:58 miniupnpd[1206]: shutting down MiniUPnPd
Apr 6 20:52:58 miniupnpd[1227]: HTTP listening on port 60406
Apr 6 20:52:58 miniupnpd[1227]: Listening for NAT-PMP/PCP traffic on port 5351
Apr 6 20:52:59 rc_service: hotplug 1185:notify_rc restart_nasapps
Apr 6 20:52:59 rc_service: waiting "restart_nasapps" via hotplug ...
Apr 6 20:52:59 NFS_Server: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:59 MediaServer: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:59 FTP_Server: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:59 Samba_Server: smb daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:52:59 miniupnpd[1227]: shutting down MiniUPnPd
Apr 6 20:52:59 miniupnpd[1232]: HTTP listening on port 51751
Apr 6 20:52:59 miniupnpd[1232]: Listening for NAT-PMP/PCP traffic on port 5351
Apr 6 20:53:00 kernel: usb 1-1.2: USB disconnect, address 6
Apr 6 20:53:00 NFS_Server: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:53:00 MediaServer: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:53:00 FTP_Server: daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:53:00 Samba_Server: smb daemon is stopped
Apr 6 20:53:00 miniupnpd[1232]: shutting down MiniUPnPd
Apr 6 20:53:00 miniupnpd[1243]: HTTP listening on port 52654
Apr 6 20:53:00 miniupnpd[1243]: Listening for NAT-PMP/PCP traffic on port 5351
Apr 6 20:53:10 kernel: usb 1-1.1: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 7
Apr 6 20:53:10 kernel: usb 1-1.1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
Apr 6 20:53:10 kernel: scsi3 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices
Apr 6 20:53:12 kernel: scsi 3:0:0:0: Direct-Access Disk Name 0009 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 CCS
Apr 6 20:53:12 kernel: sd 3:0:0:0: [sda] 976773168 512-byte hardware sectors (500108 MB)
Apr 6 20:53:12 kernel: sd 3:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off
Apr 6 20:53:12 kernel: sd 3:0:0:0: [sda] Assuming drive cache: write through
Apr 6 20:53:12 kernel: sd 3:0:0:0: [sda] Assuming drive cache: write through
Apr 6 20:53:12 kernel: sda: sda1 sda2 sda3 sda4
Apr 6 20:53:12 kernel: sd 3:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI disk
Apr 6 20:53:12 kernel: sd 3:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg0 type 0
Apr 6 20:53:13 hotplug[1266]: USB /dev/sda3(hfs+j) failed to mount at the first try!
Apr 6 20:53:13 kernel: ufsd: use builtin utf8
Apr 6 20:53:13 hotplug[1275]: USB /dev/sda2(hfs+j) failed to mount at the first try!
Apr 6 20:53:13 kernel: ufsd: use builtin utf8
Apr 6 20:53:13 hotplug[1269]: USB /dev/sda4(ntfs) failed to mount at the first try!
Apr 6 20:53:13 kernel: ufsd: use builtin utf8 instead of kernel utf8
Apr 6 20:53:13 kernel: ufsd: use builtin utf8
Apr 6 20:53:13 hotplug[1269]: USB /dev/sda4(ntfs) failed to mount at the first try!
Apr 6 20:53:13 kernel: ufsd: use builtin utf8 instead of kernel utf8
Apr 6 20:53:13 kernel: ufsd: use builtin utf8

The router is running 374.43_48E2j9527 (Merlin LTS fork).

Should this work?

The volume is a little special, screenshot from Disk Utility:

Two partitions, the first is HFS+, the second NTFS.

Physically it is a 2,5" mechanical disk from an old Macbook Pro, powered through USB (can my router provide enough power?).

 

[ColinTaylor]

What is the difference between "Time Machine implementation of SMB" and "plain" SMB?

That's not what he said. He said "Time Machine or SMB". Asus' Time Machine support uses afpd. Samba support is limited to SMB protocols V1 or V2.

I just connected a HFS+ formatted drive to my RT-AC66U but it wouldn't mount. From the log (what I think is interesting is highlighted)

The router is running 374.43_48E2j9527 (Merlin LTS fork).

RMerlin doesn't support the RT-AC66U. The firmware you are using is a fork created by john9527.

 

[lagrave]

RMerlin doesn't support the RT-AC66U. The firmware you are using is a fork created by john9527.

It used to support my router, didn't it? And is HFS+ expected to work?