Apple's New AirPort Extreme Offers No Innovation

[Raptor]

Apple posted the AirPort Extreme 802.11ac technical specifications today. It was pretty much what I expected but one thing I did notice. They listed the Radio output power: 32.5 dBm maximum (varies by country). Are they serious? 32.5 dBm is 1,778.279 mW! That seems really high. Link: http://support.apple.com/kb/SP680

 

[kidsafe]

The beauty of choice...

I bought two.

My reasons:
1) My existing AirPort Extreme hardware don't need to be power-cycled as frequently as my WRT350Nv1 or WRT610Nv1 or RT-N66U did.

2) I like the AirPort Utility from a usability standpoint and the portability of settings from old->new. Putting DD-WRT on the Linksys routers above gave me some freedom of configuration, but crippled their wireless throughput

3) An additional ethernet port, USB 3.0 and wireless router level QoS are not important to me.

 

[Razor512]

That must mean they designed it for a world wide market. Many wifi amplifiers used today can offer over 1000mw transmit power (especially when you have many of them).

Apple needs to make the US version do 1778mw transmit power, and once the high powered mode is enabled, it will send out a 1 time beacon that says FUUUUUUU FCC!!!. Then you can enjoy better wifi coverage.

Why does the FCC limit wifi to 1 watt?

 

[HawkFire]

AEBS 6th Gen.....

When SNB gets around to testing it I'd like to see how it stands up against the competition and the AEBS 5th gen. I know what QOS is and how it works, but for me at my house when my son is Facetiming with his grandmother, my daughter is streaming movies and the VoIP phone is in use....not once in the 2 year period has the AEBS 5th I have never once burped. The person on the other end sounds like they're in the same room with me and Netflix never stumbles. So under very heavy use I have never experienced any problems.

I guess if you're a person that likes to customize the settings it could be of value depending on what your running. I use to have a DIR-655 and the thing either dropped signals or had to be reset once a week. I finally dumped it. Anyway, I hope the 6th gen has great performance.

 

[HawkFire]

I bought two.

My reasons:
1) My existing AirPort Extreme hardware don't need to be power-cycled as frequently as my WRT350Nv1 or WRT610Nv1 or RT-N66U did.

2) I like the AirPort Utility from a usability standpoint and the portability of settings from old->new. Putting DD-WRT on the Linksys routers above gave me some freedom of configuration, but crippled their wireless throughput

3) An additional ethernet port, USB 3.0 and wireless router level QoS are not important to me.

Let us know how your coverage is and if you notice any throughput and range increases on either band. Good luck with your new toys!

 

[kjlo5]

A little bias against Apple

This article is assuming that the router is no good before they have even tested it.

I think I would rather have the performance do the talking rather than an anti apple bias.

I don't think the design is revolutionary but I am still interested in how it performs. I may pick one up for similar reasons kidsafe bought his. I am getting tired of resetting my Linksys 310n.

 

[HawkFire]

This article is assuming that the router is no good before they have even tested it.

I think I would rather have the performance do the talking rather than an anti apple bias.

I don't think the design is revolutionary but I am still interested in how it performs. I may pick one up for similar reasons kidsafe bought his. I am getting tired of resetting my Linksys 310n.

Tim Higgins tends to look down on Apple for what ever reason in his reviews. If you look back at his review of the AEBS 5th gen he did not seem too impressed either. To his credit he is fair in his assessment of the products he reviews, but his distaste for Apple does come through loud and clear. I agree with you 100%...let see the performance data first then call it like it is compared to the AC routers.

 

[lordv]

Paying top dollar?

Amazon link to AC1750 router search

Their pricing for just the router (not the time capsule) is pretty much in line with the market price for other AC1750 routers. This is the one of the reasons I bought one today and didn't go with the Asus. The other reason I didn't go with the ASUS is the poor overall stability rating you gave the N66U vs the stability rating you gave the old airport extreme.

I had bounced back and forth between buying one of these and buying the Asus, mostly I don't like the fact that there is no web administration for these routers (which means no linux support). While QoS may be a factor to some and may be important to them, it is not to me so that did not influence my decision. Again, that is just me and that may not apply to other users.

Even the D-Link you cited in this quick hate piece didn't get stellar reviews from you guys. As to the USB 3.0 on the router, most routers I have seen DON'T include USB 3.0. The D-Link you linked to was the first one I have seen with it. I personally don't use the USB port on my routers as the transfer has always been painfully slow. USB 3.0 wouldn't necessarily solve that.

To be honest I was wishing they would have thrown a thunderbolt port on it. Sure you would never max out the interface, but man it would have been sweet. I wish more manufacturers would embrace thunderbolt as it's not Apple proprietary and it is much faster than USB 3.0. It would also encourage more thunderbolt devices to be released and subsequently reduce the cost of thunderbolt devices overall.

To address the issue of ports, 4 ports is not enough for me. So 3 certainly isn't enough. My current router has 7. It is the only line of wireless routers out there that I know that has that many ports. In my use case, I would have had to buy a switch anyhow. Which I did. 8 port switch for now, may have to bump up to 16 eventually though.

At any rate, I will be setting this up soon, but I do look forward to reviews of the unit.

 

[slam5]

I guess

I guess you have more to $ to burn than anything else. $ 199 x 2 for routers that is only so-so? All the routers you mentioned are OLD!

I bought two.

My reasons:
1) My existing AirPort Extreme hardware don't need to be power-cycled as frequently as my WRT350Nv1 or WRT610Nv1 or RT-N66U did.

2) I like the AirPort Utility from a usability standpoint and the portability of settings from old->new. Putting DD-WRT on the Linksys routers above gave me some freedom of configuration, but crippled their wireless throughput

3) An additional ethernet port, USB 3.0 and wireless router level QoS are not important to me.

 

[RamGuy]

Looking at iFixit's teardown of the Apple AirPort Extreme (6th Gen) it seems to feature some decent hardware at least.

For once they have dropped the Marvell SoC nonsense that has been going on for some time, which proved to not give any beneficial performance. This time around they have gone for Broadcom all the way like every other manufacturer of 802.11AC routers to date.


If I'm not terribly mistaken the hardware inside this years Apple AirPort Extrem and Apple Time Capsule seems to feature much the same hardware as the upcoming Asus RT-AC68U (?)

We've got a dual-core BCM53019 SoC combined with 2x BCM4360 (I'm not really sure if it features one or two, but iFixit doesn't mention anything about a different chip for 2.4GHz, so I guess it's 2x BCM4360), 4GB of DDR3 and 32MB flash.

Isn't that pretty much the same array of specifications as the upcoming Asus RT-AC68U besides it featuring more memory and beamforming antennas?

 

[stevech]

Apple posted the AirPort Extreme 802.11ac technical specifications today. It was pretty much what I expected but one thing I did notice. They listed the Radio output power: 32.5 dBm maximum (varies by country). Are they serious? 32.5 dBm is 1,778.279 mW! That seems really high. Link: http://support.apple.com/kb/SP680

Perhaps they confused their engineering uits.
32 milliwatts makes sense - its what most chipsets provide with the higher speeds of '11n. 32mW is about 15dBm. And 32dBm is about 1.5 Watts = 1500mW.

With 11n's use of OFDM, the high bit rates cause a greater "peak to average power ratio", so the average power must be reduced (in the radio firmware) to accommodate the higher peak power. This has to be done to avoid transmitting a distorted waveform causing high bit error rates at the receiver = lower throughput. It's like over-driving a stereo speaker: loud but distorted, but in data systems, distorted = lost data.

At the lowest bit rates of 11n (and 11g) the peak/average ratio reduces and some chipsets can and do increase power to about 60mW. From there to 100mW is just 2dB or so. Even 3 or 6dB is insignificant in 2.4GHz - where the end to end path loss is commonly 50-100dB. So 3dB is a small percentage.

 

[thiggins]

Apple needs to make the US version do 1778mw transmit power, and once the high powered mode is enabled, it will send out a 1 time beacon that says FUUUUUUU FCC!!!. Then you can enjoy better wifi coverage.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...516-why-high-power-routers-dont-improve-range

 

[thiggins]

This article is assuming that the router is no good before they have even tested it. .

I didn't say it was no good. I said it doesn't offer anything different, and actually offers less, than other similarly top priced draft 11ac routers.

I am in no rush to test the product given that I have to buy one. Apple hasn't responded to review requests in a long time, even before we caught the antenna miswire http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...4-more-surprises-from-the-new-airport-extreme

 

[thiggins]

If I'm not terribly mistaken the hardware inside this years Apple AirPort Extrem and Apple Time Capsule seems to feature much the same hardware as the upcoming Asus RT-AC68U (?)

Isn't that pretty much the same array of specifications as the upcoming Asus RT-AC68U besides it featuring more memory and beamforming antennas?

Yes, the two designs seem similar. The use of the BCM4360 for the 2.4 GHz radio should also allow Apple to claim AC1900 class, should they decide to enable TurboQAM.

Beamforming depends on software in the router and client. It has nothing to do with the design of the antennas.

 

[amato]

I am somehow of a novice to routing and have been learning a lot from this website (thank you Mr. Higgins) but starting to get a feel for routing...(being a picky shopper is helping)

Are you sure they are using a dual-core BCM53019 SoC ? this would mean that they should have USB 3.0 which they don't...knowing Apple they might be still using last year's broadcom hardware...reconfirmation would be great...

in case they are using the latest hardware...would be very tempted to get this router despite the lack of customization...

i have already test driven 3 AC routers over the last couple of month and have been extremely disappointed by each one...therefore thinking about trying Apple despite the overpriced tag.

ASUS AC-66 despite its numerous options had terrible and uneven 2.4 Ghz speedtest results...not to mention the heating part.
Linksys EA 6300...throttled my speeds after 3 days of use...after all its now Belkin...
Netgear R 6250...i thought it was the one but 2.4 GHZ speeds not acceptable...i was getting close to my 80 MBPS on 5 GHZ and only 2.4 GHZ despite trying every different setting in the book.
i was also getting only 433 MBPS connection with my AC galaxy S4 (can someone comment?)

If the apple can give the me same range as R 6250 and not limit the 2.4 GHZ speeds i might get over the lack of options...and stick to it.

Reviews on the router and apple's new software will greatly be welcomed...

 

[thiggins]

The BCM53019 info comes from the ifixit teardown, so is accurate.

Yes, the dual-core Broadcoms support USB 3.0. But that doesn't mean vendors have to expose it. I don't know Apple's reasoning for not including 3.0

Sounds like you may have a general compatibility problem with Broadcom 2.4 GHz chipset and the wireless adapter you are using.

Smartphones will have only a 1x1 (single antenna) radio. The 802.11ac data rate table (scroll down near bottom of page) shows 433 Mbps is the maximum link rate for 1x1.

 

[RamGuy]

Is there any real point in having USB3.0 on a router anyways? I haven't seen any numbers on BCM53019 yet but unless it's significantly more capable compared to previous revisions you will end up being bottlenecked by the SoC rendering the USB3.0 port rather useless.


Secondly Apple is offering their Time Capsule options using on-board SATA connection so I guess they really don't care when it comes to USB2.0 vs USB3.0 transfer speeds as the USB port is mostly meant for printer usage.

 

[NXIL]

USB 3 interference

Hi Tim,

I know you know about this

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us...al-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html

because I read about it in one of your reviews! Maybe they decided the extra shielding was not worth the expense.

As for Anti Apple Bias: I know you are fair and balanced, to steal that almost copyrighted phrase, but: I feel it too. Word choice, tone....

The Gen5 AAE did very well in testing, and is priced pretty close to its competitors. A little premium? Sure, but, it has long been one of the top selling routers at Amazon.

People are willing to pay more for a product that works. The AAE firmware is really stable, easy to config, and just works. A router is hardware AND software, and you have to admit, Apple does that pretty well. (OK, you don't HAVE to.)

As for a freebie router from Apple to review it: isn't that an inherent conflict of interest? Yes, I know you will do fair objective tests but: is Asus giving you a lot of free routers? I know their stuff is good, I recommend that too, but: well Asus routers get a lot of press here.

BTW: I recommend your site every day, and link to it, so....just sayin.

As for the cost of testing routers: after you are done, assuming you needed to take it apart and didn't destroy it: you have a broad readership, you could sell it, and the net cost of testing would go down.

Anyway: no I do not work for Apple, Asus, though I would love to.

Thanks for all you do!

 

[thiggins]

Is there any real point in having USB3.0 on a router anyways? I haven't seen any numbers on BCM53019 yet but unless it's significantly more capable compared to previous revisions you will end up being bottlenecked by the SoC rendering the USB3.0 port rather useless.

The main advantage of the dual-core processors is not improved wireless performance or faster routing, but better concurrent feature handling.

File transfer throughput on some USB 3.0 routers isn't too bad now. So the dual-core CPUs should help keep that speed high when the router is busy with other tasks. I do have to test this, however.

Secondly Apple is offering their Time Capsule options using on-board SATA connection so I guess they really don't care when it comes to USB2.0 vs USB3.0 transfer speeds as the USB port is mostly meant for printer usage.

A good, and obvious point. Apple doesn't want the Extreme to eat into Time Capsule sales.

 

[NXIL]

iFixit Teardown

OK, I have to say: that is a pretty impressive teardown:

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/AirPort+Extreme+A1521+Teardown/15044/1?singlePage

Huge heatsinks. Fan. Custom PCB obviously......

The three versus four RJ 45 ports: that is a bit odd but, since essentially all Apple products have good wireless built in, they presume 3 will be enough for most users.