Asus MA-25 for wired backhaul only shows 1 gig connection on Asus ET12 satellite

[Yngvai]

I recently purchased two Asus MA-25's to set up a MOCA network with 2.5 gig ethernet connections (previously I had Actiontec 6250's with the 1 gig connection). I also got the Asus Zen Wifi ET12 which has a 2.5 gig wan port and also a 2.5 gig LAN port, using one of the Mocas for wired backhaul on the Asus satellite.

The Moca's are showing a successful connection, and I've got successful wired backhaul on the ET12 satellite on the 2.5 gig WAN port of the satellite. However, in the Asus web GUI, it says it's a 1 gig connection on the 2.5 gig port. When I test wireless speeds on both the 5 and 6 ghz channels near the wired satellite, I get 800-900 mbps also suggesting it's a 1 gig connection. I'm eventually going to test the 2.5 gig LAN port on the satellite with my laptop but need to get a 2.5gig adapter first for my laptop, so right now I can only test the speed wirelessly.

I have Xfinity service up to 1.2 gbps, and I know I'm getting those speeds at the main router as speed tests are showing 1.4 gbps. I've also gotten wireless speeds up to 1.2 gbps on the 6 ghz channel near the main router. My 2.5gig network switch also shows 2.5 gig connection lights for the Asus MOCA adapter that is on the modem/router side of the network as well as for the main router. The connections are also correctly put in the two 2.5 gig (not the 1 gig) ports on the primary ASUS ET12 router. Thus, there's no rate-limiting network port that would be slowing my speed for the entire MOCA network (i.e., like if I had a 1 gb ethernet switch rather than 2.5 gb or if one of the MOCA adapters had just a 1 gig ethernet port or if I had a cable in one of the wrong ports on the router).

I've read the MOCA 2.5 is half-duplex, which effectively makes it 1.25 gig up and down. Would this be why the ET12 satellite is showing the backhaul connection as 1 gig? This would contradict Asus's claims on the MA-25 that you can have wired backhaul speeds up to 2.5 gbps.

 

[degrub]

between two nodes you get 2.5 Gbit/s but only half of the time in each direction. It is a property of RF communication. Looks like a perfect match with the Verizon service. If there is a sync diagnostic page on the MA, check the bit rate sync. i have the same thing with my GOCoax modems on ATT 1 Gb fiber.

 

[krkaufman]

I've read the MOCA 2.5 is half-duplex, which effectively makes it 1.25 gig up and down. Would this be why the ET12 satellite is showing the backhaul connection as 1 gig? This would contradict Asus's claims on the MA-25 that you can have wired backhaul speeds up to 2.5 gbps.

Replicating my reply from Reddit: Absent other competing traffic, MoCA 2.5 adapters equipped with 2.5 GbE ports should be able to communicate at up to 2500 Mbps in a 2-node-only setup. (Up to 2000 Mbps in a 3+ node setup, with the “TURBO” boost lost.)

One example from a recent Reddit thread:

When I first tried the parallel streams I was doing 4 and thats what got my the 1.33Gb after seeing this reply I decided to try different numbers and with 10 streams I got 2.26Gb

 

[Yngvai]

Thanks for your replies.

I think the issue is with the quality of my cable connections. This morning I woke up to the ET12 satellite being offline, then came back online. After coming back online, it said it had a 2.5 gig connection. However, the ET12 kept going back offline and coming back online over and over, and when it was online and I tried to test the internet it was either really slow or wouldn't connect at all. I eventually disconnected it and am using wireless backhaul for now.

I know I have some issues with cable connections in my house, because last week I tried to move our cable modem from office to master bedroom and the modem had troubles connecting so I moved it back to the office. And in the office itself, while the internet is working fine, if I look at my cable modem diagnostics the upchannel power is a bit high and beyond spec for Xfinity (53-54 when it should be under 50), the downstream channels power are a bit on the weak side (but still in spec) at around -6 to -7, and I have quite a few corrected and uncorrected errors.

In the past I had just run our downstairs TV directly from the MOCA, and given the connection is only a 10/100 connection, cable quality probably wasn't enough of an issue to impact TV streaming performance so I never noticed it. But now trying to connect the ET12 satellite there, it probably magnified the problem so that it became apparent.

I don't have a ton of splits....one 3-way split outside the house after the mainline (splitting the line to the office where modem is, bedroom, and downstairs TV), then a 2-way splitter just before the modem to connect the modem and MOCA. But it's a 1980 house and I'm guessing the cable quality isn't high.

I have an Arris active return amplifier coming today that I'm going to try to boost the connection signal. I'd like to try to avoid having to re-run new cable (or try running ethernet throughout the house).

 

[krkaufman]

ET12 satellite being offline, then came back online. After coming back online, it said it had a 2.5 gig connection. However, the ET12 kept going back offline and coming back online over and over,

This sounds more like an Ethernet port or Ethernet cabling issue if the ET12 is negotiating different link rates. Coax/MoCA quality issues would be mostly hidden from the ET12, assuming a MoCA connection of any speed. (Unless the ET12 is regularly performing automated speed tests to evaluate its connection rate relative to some other device on the network, which I doubt.)

p.s. That’s not to say that the coax couldn’t do with some MoCA optimization.

 

[Yngvai]

Yeah it's hard to say. I know there's some cable issues in the bedroom as the modem won't consistently connect. I haven't tried connecting the modem down by the TV. Maybe it's an ET12 issue but I was also having issues with my Nest last week before I upgraded to ET12. Specifically, when trying the Nest router in the bedroom (for the brief time that I did have a successful cable connection there), the router said it couldn't find the internet. Then when I tried to move it back to its original place in the office with my original setup that it WAS working on, it said that it still couldn't find the internet. This was despite numerous factory resets and modem resets, and also trying TWO different Nest routers. Then I got the ET12, and started with wireless backhaul, and it was working good for a day or so. Then I got a hole cut in our built-ins by the TV so I could do the wired backhaul with MOCA. Then these issues came up. I've switched back to wireless backhaul but interestingly I'm having some internet stability issues for the wireless (but not my hardwired desktop). The router itself says it has great stable internet speeds.

I'm suspecting cable issues because I've now had problems with two different brands of routers. Maybe it's also the MA-25's, which are new on the market and no reviews out there, causing some problems....I could try reconnecting my Screenbeam/Actiontec 6250's to see if the problems persist. So far Asus hasn't been able to provide me with any way to access MOCA diagnostics.

 

[Yngvai]

Basically to outline the timeline of my issues:

1. Had a Nest mesh wifi system (2 routers, 1 point) with three Screenbeam 6250 Moca's, and Netgear CM1100 modem. Main Nest router in office, connected to modem and also Netgear 1 gig switch which was connected to the Moca. 2nd Nest router was in bedroom, hardwired into Moca for wired backhaul. Third MoCa was at downstairs TV to give the TV hardwired connection. Nest wifi point was in the downstairs kitchen.

2. Overall this setup worked reasonably well, but I was occasionally having issues with really slow internet in family room (which was within line of sight of the Nest Wifi point) but not constently. Also my security system was dropping its wifi connection once per day and would reconnect within 2-15 minutes. Also I noticed on my desktop that I'd briefly lose internet connection just for a second or two maybe 2-4 times a day. Also got frustrated with lack of customization options for Nest (like my bedroom TV sometimes connecting to the 2.4 ghz or office router rather than bedroom/same room router and no way to force it to the 5 ghz with Nest). So started to think that I would upgrade to a gig+ setup and better router, especially with Xfinity 1.2 gig connection.

3. First step of upgrade...switched out modem for MB6811 to get the 2.5 gig port. Successful and everything continued to work. Occasional flashing upstream or downstream lights on modem but that was it. Still had the other issues described above.

4. Decided I'd move modem and main Nest router into bedroom, and then second Nest router downstairs once I cut hole in built-ins for wired backhaul on Nest. On my first initial reconnection of modem, got a successful connection but with flashing upstream channel. Direct connection of laptop worked fine with good speeds. Then rebooted modem, still had flashing upstream channel. Tried connecting Nest router and it said it couldn't find the internet (despite my laptop having success). Tried other Nest router and same thing. Tried factory resets on both Nest routers but wouldn't work. Finally modem also stopped being able to get any sort of stable connection in the bedroom. This was even with Screenbeam Moca adapters unplugged (still had the splitter in).

5. Decided to revert to old setup. Modem connected fine. However, Nest continued to tell me it couldn't find internet, despite direct connection of my desktop being able to work. Now I had no internet at all in entire house other than at my desktop. Frustrated, and given I had been considering upgrading everything to 2.5 gig potential anyway, I ordered ET12 mesh set of 2 along with two MA-25's, and a 2.5 gig switch.

6. I initially setup ET12 with wireless backhaul, and the two MA-25's in place. MA-25's showed successful MOCA connection, and my TV hardwired into the second one was successfully streaming. Initial performance on ET12 was stellar...tested 6 ghz channel and was getting 1.3 gig speeds from my Samsung S21 when within 5-6 feet of the main router. And was getting 800 mbps or so from the satellite which I had, for now, placed in the kitchen.

7. Cut a hole in built-ins by TV, then moved the ET12 satellite there and hardwired it into the MOCA. I set up ethernet backhaul on the ET12, and that's where problems began. First it only negotiated a 1 gig connection as I described earlier. Then found it constantly reconnecting with a 2.5 gig connection this morning. Also noticed issues with my 5 and 6 ghz connections from my phone, even when near the main router....sometimes it would drop connection and reconnect. I also can't get the speeds I got the first day, and they seem all over the place...sometimes around 700-800, sometimes around 200-300. And the speed tests will pause sometimes halfway through. If I do the router's own speed test coming into the modem, then it's showing 1.4 gig speed. I've removed the ethernet/MOCA backhaul but still getting the stability issues.

Yes, it could be the ET12, but given the Nest was having issues even trying to find the internet, and given I KNOW there are some cabling issues given my modem diagnostics and the problems I had with the modem in the bedroom, I can only think that the cabling itself is causing internet instability which is then impacting my wireless mesh systems.

So I'm thinking first step in debugging is completely removing the MOCA and splits, and having a single line cable connection, and look at the cable modem diagnostics. If they improve to where they should be, try setting up the ET12s with no MOCA or splits, and see if the issues persist. If they don't, then that confirms it's the cabling.

 

[degrub]

1980 - sounds like CAT 5 at best and RG59 for coax. Neither are good for high bit rates.

 

[Yngvai]

So I removed the MOCA and the splits. Cable signals improved to -42ish for upload and +5ish for download, and no more errors. SNR improved to around 40 from 36-37. Re-hooked up the ASUS ET12 and everything is acting very stable and normal. Was getting my full 1.1-1.2 gbps when laptop connected directly to modem using 2.5g USB ethernet adapter. Asus continues to read 1.4 gbps at the modem connection. Speeds ends up around 800-900 when hardwired through my 2.5 gig ethernet switch which goes to the router, which I'm guessing is just additional jumps/hardware overhead.

So it was either the loss of signal due to the splits causing issues with my router, or something wrong with my MOCA setup. Interestingly on the Moca setup my Norton on my laptop was automatically connecting to VPN because it thought my connection was compromised. Makes me wonder if something wasn't set up right with MOCA which may have been contributing to my issues. I'll post another thread outlining my MOCA setup and whether it was the correct setup or not. For now I'll use the wireless backhaul (which is working surprisingly well on the 6 ghz band despite being at other end of house and multiple walls ... PHY rates are averaging 1.3 gbps).

 

[degrub]

most likely signal loss issues from too many splitters/connectors. MOCA is usually transparent to ethernet. Only issue is typically overlap with DOCCIS 3.1 bands causing conflicts and loss of MOCA channels. Have to shift to the D upper bands and loose 2+ bands for moca reducing the link rate. Worst case, may consume all of the moca channels. Best is independent coax for moca if doccis 3.1 involved sharing the cable. Also, you need to block the moca signals from the coax modem coax using a MOCA POE filter. You don't want both on the same coax.

 

[krkaufman]

Only issue is typically overlap with DOCCIS 3.1 bands causing conflicts and loss of MOCA channels. Have to shift to the D upper bands and loose 2+ bands for moca reducing the link rate. ... Also, you need to block the moca signals from the coax modem coax using a MOCA POE filter.

These are both workarounds for MoCA interfering with a D3.1 modem, but you wouldn’t do both. A prophylactic MoCA filter on the modem is sufficient if the issue is simply MoCA signals destabilizing the modem; shifting the MoCA operating frequency also addresses this case but, as mentioned, at the expense of throughput. Shifting frequencies is only required if the provider is actually using the D3.1 “initial rollout” frequencies above 1002 MHz, up through 1218 MHz; but then the issue shifts to how to protect the MoCA network at the point-of-entry. Effectively… once a provider actually starts using D3.1 frequencies above 1002 MHz, isolating the modem feed becomes an imperative.