Asus RT AX88U or ROGAX1100

[Danhill76]

Hi,

The plan is to upgrade to either the AX88u or the ROG1100 now in the next week or so (waiting for the black friday deals)

My question is, if I have 4 clients that are AX enabled (2 Note 10 and 2 PC;s) and using the AX88U are those clients always going to use the 5Ghz band AX and never look back to AC?

Or is it better to have the ROG AX1100 ROG and connect the 4 clients to the 5-1 GHZ band exclusively?

 

[thiggins]

Your AX devices aren't really going to run that much faster than AC in 5 GHz unless you use 160 MHz. The Samsung's don't support it, but the (I'm assuming) Intel AX200's in your PCs do.

I would not spend the money on either, but certainly not on a tri-band AX.

 

[Danhill76]

Thanks for the reply. The PCs has the new adapter pce ax 58. The idea I had was to have a dedicated 5 ghz ax band for just gaming and the note 10 and one 5 ghz for the rest of the clients not supporting ax and leaving minimal interfierance. But perhaps it is sufficient with an rt 88u, going with the rog may be way too much?

 

[organshifter]

Thanks for the reply. The PCs has the new adapter pce ax 58. The idea I had was to have a dedicated 5 ghz ax band for just gaming and the note 10 and one 5 ghz for the rest of the clients not supporting ax and leaving minimal interfierance. But perhaps it is sufficient with an rt 88u, going with the rog may be way too much?

With the ROG series being gamer oriented and tri-Band, the AX11000 is the far better choice for what you're wanting to accomplish. It's powerful, reliable, and a workhorse. I've been nothing short of delighted with mine.

Make the investment, future-proof, and enjoy it. Purchasing another router will be the last thing on your mind for many many years to come.

 

[Danhill76]

Thanks. I have the ac 68u and had that for 5 years, as it is now I think its pushing the limits for it with our households needs. Gaming, streaming and so on, specially when others are gaming and streaming it can stutter sometimes. The isp speed is fiber with 250/250.

 

[thiggins]

Make the investment, future-proof

Buying an expensive, top-end AX router at this point is not future-proofing. It's just spending top $ to get an unfinished product that doesn't even support the key features AX is supposed to support (OFDMA, DL AX MU-MIMO). The AX spec approval has been pushed out 9 months.

The ROG features are also available in a less expensive AC version if that's the main reason for buying a gaming router.

Besides, wait until the industry starts beating the drum about "clear field 6 GHz routers" as soon as the FCC decides who gets the spectrum (or how much to charge for it). Then 802.11be after that.

 

[thiggins]

Thanks. I have the ac 68u and had that for 5 years, as it is now I think its pushing the limits for it with our households needs. Gaming, streaming and so on, specially when others are gaming and streaming it can stutter sometimes. The isp speed is fiber with 250/250.

The cause of your stuttering could be the mix of devices that is eating up airtime. A single 2 stream AC device close to the router could be getting the full 250 Mbps. But if you move it to the other side of the house, it will increase its airtime use to get the same bandwidth.

What could better address your problem is another access point closer to where most of your heavy users are. You can accomplish this via an extender with a dedicated backhaul radio (NETGEAR EX8000, Linksys RE9000) or "tri-band" mesh system (Orbi RBK50).

 

[organshifter]

Thanks. I have the ac 68u and had that for 5 years, as it is now I think its pushing the limits for it with our households needs. Gaming, streaming and so on, specially when others are gaming and streaming it can stutter sometimes. The isp speed is fiber with 250/250.

I ordered my ASUS RT-AC66U Dual-Band Router back on February 21, 2013. This is the first version, not to be mistaken for the revised AC66U B1. I paired it with the Motorola SURFboard SB5101 I was using at the time. A little over a year later, I upgraded my internet speed from 50/20 to 150/40. With DOCSIS 3.0 becoming more pressing, and looking for an excuse to upgrade, I picked up an ARRIS Surfboard SB6183. The two devices were like a match made in heaven.

I used that setup without much issue up until June 21, 2018, which is when I upgraded my internet speed to Comcast's Gigabit tier (1000/40). My previous setup couldn't handle the new speed, so I purchased a NETGEAR Nighthawk X4S DOCSIS 3.1 Ultra-High Speed Wifi Cable Modem Router Combo. It was horrible! I couldn't deal with the step down in customization after having used Merlin's FW for so long, so I returned it within a few days and went back to my previous setup. On July 5, 2018, I picked up an Asus RT-AC86U router and Motorola MB8600 modem.

The Asus RT-AC86U is a fantastic router! So good, in fact, I bought another one on August 21, 2018 for AiMesh. Pairing them went reasonably well, and I truly thought I'd leave it at that. However, I knew when I purchased the AC86U's, my heart wasn't in it. I really wanted the AX11000. I was just reluctant to spend $499.99 on a router (at the time), especially considering that my AC86U's were significantly cheaper together.

Fast forward to May 24, 2019, I couldn't hold out any longer and purchased the Asus ROG Rapture GT-AX11000. It was $50 cheaper, too. So, with the AX11000 in my computer room, an AC86U in the living room, and the other in the garage, I'm satisfied with the outcome. I did test the AX11000 on its own before meshing the network, and it performed great. The furthest corners of the house and garage would be down a few bars, but never dropped connection. Needless to say, the AC86U's fixed that issue.

Like you said, with so many devices streaming, gaming, etc...bandwidth is in high demand. A tri-band solution is most definitely the better way to go. With the AX88U being dual band, you wouldn't be able to have "a dedicated 5 ghz ax band for just gaming and the note 10 and one 5 ghz for the rest of the clients not supporting ax" as you clearly stated.

Anyhow, you'll definitely be future proofing with the AX11000. So, if you find one at a comfortable price point, definitely pick it up. You won't be disappointed.

Buying an expensive, top-end AX router at this point is not future-proofing. It's just spending top $ to get an unfinished product that doesn't even support the key features AX is supposed to support (OFDMA, DL AX MU-MIMO). The AX spec approval has been pushed out 9 months.

The ROG features are also available in a less expensive AC version if that's the main reason for buying a gaming router.

The AX spec is all but finalized. WiFi 6 MU-MIMO and OFDMA are already being tested on the AX88U, and it has already been recognized as Wi-Fi CERTIFIED 6™ by the Wi-Fi Alliance®. To even make such a decision can be viewed as confirmation that the AX88U has the required hardware specs to fully support the AX spec. So, it goes without saying that the even more capable AX11000 will definitely meet specifications.

 

[thiggins]

The AX spec is all but finalized. WiFi 6 MU-MIMO and OFDMA are already being tested on the AX88U, and it has already been recognized as Wi-Fi CERTIFIED 6™ by the Wi-Fi Alliance®. To even make such a decision can be viewed as confirmation that the AX88U has the required hardware specs to fully support the AX spec. So, it goes without saying that the even more capable AX11000 will definitely meet specifications.

If the AX spec were "all but finalized" why was it pushed out 9 months?
Wi-Fi Certification is about function, i.e. do the protocols work, not performance.

It took years for Broadcom to figure out how to do AC MU-MIMO. Designing airtime scheduling with the options of DL AC MU-MIMO, DL OFDMA, UL OFDMA, DL AX MU-MIMO and SU-MIMO to send any given packet presents an extremely difficult challenge. It's going to take years to get this working decently and different chipset manufacturers will probably take different approaches.

I'm glad you are happy with your purchase. Just don't think that you have "future proofed" anything.

 

[organshifter]

If the AX spec were "all but finalized" why was it pushed out 9 months?
Wi-Fi Certification is about function, i.e. do the protocols work, not performance.

It took years for Broadcom to figure out how to do AC MU-MIMO. Designing airtime scheduling with the options of DL AC MU-MIMO, DL OFDMA, UL OFDMA, DL AX MU-MIMO and SU-MIMO to send any given packet presents an extremely difficult challenge. It's going to take years to get this working decently and different chipset manufacturers will probably take different approaches.

I'm glad you are happy with your purchase. Just don't think that you have "future proofed" anything.

I remember all the hype surrounding the 802.11n draft 2.0 situation back in 2007. SU-MIMO was big news! Many people were skeptical about purchasing equipment but, just as expected, early adopters jumped on board. It turned out to be a great move.

If you recall the outcome...more than two years later:

"The Wi-Fi Alliance has announced that it will not change the baseline requirements of its 802.11n certification program, and plans to make only small optional additions to coincide with the finalization of the 802.11n standard later this year. The updated test program will preserve interoperability with more than 600 Wi-Fi CERTIFIED 802.11n draft 2.0 products released since June 2007, while adding testing for some optional features now included in the standard."

The 802.11ac draft 3.0 was no different. It took years to finalize, and the draft products that released years earlier were certified with backward interoperability. And that's exactly my point. The hardware needed/required to ensure that the protocols function properly is here. This proves especially true for high-end 802.11ax draft 4.0 products like the AX88U and AX11000.

So, judging by the Wi-Fi Alliance's actions thus far, an immense amount of evidence points to the 802.11ax draft 4.0 finalization being a done deal. Too many devices were already closely evaluated and deemed Wi-Fi CERTIFIED. That's not a decision made by chance. It's just a waiting game at this juncture, and it's highly unlikely that any features which would void certification will be added. I also don't see it going nine more months. If not finalized by the end of this year, first quarter next year for sure.

Regarding the various functions of AC/AX MU-MIMO, OFDMA, and a time-frame as to how long it will take developers on the software side of things to get it working properly, years is not an overstatement. I won't pretend to understand the complexity of MU-MIMO streams between multiple clients, but I'm certain the challenge is grueling. Not to mention, OFDMA, which I understand is a different animal altogether with changing traffic patterns, utilizing sub-carrier groups, sending packets to multiple devices simultaneously, etc. I cringe just thinking about the level of programming required to get it working properly.

This all makes me think back to the huge benefits manufacturers boasted consumers would gain from MU-MIMO during the AC draft. Although the boastful claims are true, after waiting for what feels like an eternity, very little has truly come to fruition. Not seeing the technology deliver in high fashion has left a lot of people sour. What people failed to realize is that MU-MIMO routers weren't common place back then, and MU-MIMO consumer devices were nonexistent. Even now, with many MU-MIMO routers readily available, client products/devices for consumers are far and few between. With MU-MIMO requiring significantly more power than SU-MIMO, it's understandable.

There were a respectable amount of Wi-Fi 6 products released this year, and I truly believe that every upper-mid to high-end consumer grade Wi-Fi product to hit the market next year will be utilizing the 802.11ax standard. Many people who currently own AX routers are ready to take full advantage of the technology now, next year, and for many more years to come. Being that I'm one of those people, and considering that next year has yet to arrive, I'm pretty confident in saying that I've future proofed my networking capabilities.

Either way, I respect your opinion. We'll just agree to disagree.

 

[thiggins]

The 11ax working group changed the timeline after the September meeting. http://www.ieee802.org/11/Reports/802.11_Timelines.htm

I obviously don't share your optimism. The Wi-Fi industry continues to consistently promise long and deliver short except for pushing link rates up and eating up more channels.

 

[RMerlin]

The 11ax working group changed the timeline after the September meeting.

November 2020? These guys must have worked on Duke Nuke'em Forever in a past life...

 

[Danhill76]

Thank you all for your input, now to wait and see if its going to be any good black friday deals next week.

 

[Danhill76]

Found a pretty good deal on the 11000 in Sweden approx 100$ off during the black friday week...yeah black "friday" week, its crazy