Being "that guy"

[VicVinegar]

Sorry for another one of these newb threads. I just haven't been able to dig up answers to these questions anywhere else. So this is kind of a "help me choose" and "confirm what I understand" post.

Here is the situation. I think I am all set on watching for a deal on a Synology DS411, as it appears it will fit my needs.

Here is what I really need, it isn't much:
- Ability to backup from two Macs and one Win 7 PC wirelessly (I know it will be slow, but I need this to be as "automatic" as possible with the wife's computer). Maybe I'll grab a powerline adapter to use, but I'd like the option of both.
- Back up my media in a way that it would be available for streaming the computers, a PS3, and possibly through an Apple TV.
- Redundancy of the data
- Share my non-wifi Canon multi-function printer with the 3 laptops and an iPad.

That is really it. I might use the camera option that Synology offers in the future, if I could figure out how to run power to a surveillance camera on the outside of my house. Might not be a DIY project.

It looks like there is an app that allows streaming of audio to an iPad, but it doesn't support video? Is that right? I like the AirPrint support though, as that would solve me having to buy a new printer to print from the iPad.

I'm guessing the Apple TV would work if I could somehow direct iTunes to look to the NAS for content?

Now is an awful time to buy hard drives, so I just want to get my "wish list" ready so I can start watching for prices to come back to earth. I was going to load the 411 with 4x3TB drives..unsure what brand. Probably WD or Hitachi. 6TB will be plenty for my needs over the next few years. The 411 looked like a nice medium for performance between the 411J, which seemed a little weak with the 128MB of RAM and the 411+II, which is quite a bit more expensive. I liked the Synology software better than the QNAP, which I also considered the TS-419. It seemed to have a few more features baked in too.

So I know this is a lot of rambling, but I guess I am wondering if I am understanding anything incorrectly. If I buy the 411, plug it into my router, attach the printer, and download the DSM app...I should be ready to roll with what I discussed?

 

[thiggins]

Any NAS will support backing up to it as long as the backup program can back up to a networked share. If you're looking for Apple Time Machine support for the Macs, the Synology will do it.

The DLNA server in the Synology should support the devices you mention. Check for comments in the Synology forums to be sure.

By "redundancy" of the data, you mean some sort of RAID? You should not be relying on RAID for backup.

NAS printer sharing features are usually pretty basic on most NASes. So you might have problems. Again, hit the Synology forums to do some research.

I haven't used the Synology app you refer to. Again, hit the Synology forums.

 

[Generic George]

Sorry for another one of these newb threads. I just haven't been able to dig up answers to these questions anywhere else. So this is kind of a "help me choose" and "confirm what I understand" post.

Here is the situation. I think I am all set on watching for a deal on a Synology DS411, as it appears it will fit my needs.

It seems to be an excellent choice. Given that they have just released a 212+ to replace the 211+, there may be a 412 getting released sometime in the not too distant future. But who knows. It's unclear what advantages one would have, since they are already bumping up against the limitations imposed by a gigabit ethernet connection.

Here is what I really need, it isn't much:
- Ability to backup from two Macs and one Win 7 PC wirelessly (I know it will be slow, but I need this to be as "automatic" as possible with the wife's computer). Maybe I'll grab a powerline adapter to use, but I'd like the option of both.

I would do the initial back up wired, since incrementals will be much smaller and thus much quicker than a full backup.

Automatic backup is more a function of software than the NAS per se. Especially since there's going to be some sort of client software needed for the back up of the win laptop.

I've read that it's a good idea for the time machine backups for the mac be given their own account on the nas and a disk space quota be set for that user, otherwise the Time Machine backups will eventually expand to the point where they take all of the space on the nas.

- Back up my media in a way that it would be available for streaming the computers, a PS3, and possibly through an Apple TV.
- Redundancy of the data

A NAS is not a full back up solution. Since it is still pretty much a single point of failure. It is certainly better than having no back up, but it doesn't protect against some sort of catastrophic event like say a fire or flood at your house. RAIDed drives do offer some degree of protection from loss, but more than a single drive failure will still wipe your data.

Short of buying 5 or 10 sets of drives that you swap out on a regular basis (obviously gets pricey very, very quickly), you don't have a long backup window. Meaning that if something happens to the nas, there's nothing to go back to that you can recover from a previous date.

An ideal back up solution will do

1) A regular full back up of all your data, 1/night would be ideal, but 1/wk is more typical.
2) An incremental back up on a more frequent schedule. Typically every night of anything that changed that day.

Then once a month or so, you'll swap out that set for another set of backups and once every couple of months or once a year, you'll set aside the most recent set as a long term historical set. So you can go back to it in the event that say you found a worm or virus that was corrupting files and it affected everything you'd saved for the past 3 months.

As you can see this is well beyond what nearly any consumer solution provides. Or frankly is affordable to a consumer. In a business setting it typically it requires a multi-terabyte tape drive that holds 8 tapes to several dozen tapes and you'll have several sets of tapes.

In short, something like a nas is a good first step, but for REALLY important data (financial records for example), you WILL want something more comprehensive.

That is really it. I might use the camera option that Synology offers in the future, if I could figure out how to run power to a surveillance camera on the outside of my house. Might not be a DIY project.

I don't think this is terribly difficult to do, but Synology apparently did change something where you now need to buy a $50 license to use the IP surveillance camera feature.

It looks like there is an app that allows streaming of audio to an iPad, but it doesn't support video? Is that right? I like the AirPrint support though, as that would solve me having to buy a new printer to print from the iPad.

I'm guessing the Apple TV would work if I could somehow direct iTunes to look to the NAS for content?

Well the Synology DS1511+ I'm in the process of setting up under the iTunes control panel item does say you can share video, audio and pictures, but I think it does it through iTunes.

I think you can also just direct it to a folder with videos on the NAS. I don't have any experience with an Apple TV however.

You can also use your PS3 as a streaming device and it may well be better than the AppleTV.

One thing to keep in mind is that you are almost always going to be better off having the videos in the format you are going to be streaming it in. The NAS simply don't have the horsepower to transcode video from one format to another (ex. avi to MP4).

Now is an awful time to buy hard drives, so I just want to get my "wish list" ready so I can start watching for prices to come back to earth. I was going to load the 411 with 4x3TB drives..unsure what brand. Probably WD or Hitachi. 6TB will be plenty for my needs over the next few years. The 411 looked like a nice medium for performance between the 411J, which seemed a little weak with the 128MB of RAM and the 411+II, which is quite a bit more expensive. I liked the Synology software better than the QNAP, which I also considered the TS-419. It seemed to have a few more features baked in too.

One thing I've done, since I just bought a NAS is to pick up some external drives and simply remove the HD from the case. Some of Seagate's external drives in particular are essentially just a plastic case around a 3.5" drive, which then plug into a sata to USB/FW/Esata doc. So all you need to do is remove the plastic shell and shazam you've got a drive. It will be any of their drives that feature a dock at the bottom that you sit the actual drive on top of I think that's the goflex series. Like this one.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045JLPNI/?tag=snbforums-20

I'd hit best buy or other local electronics stores since they don't seem to have jacked up prices on the externals just yet. You should be able to get some 3tb drive for about $160 a pop. So you might want to move quickly.

So I know this is a lot of rambling, but I guess I am wondering if I am understanding anything incorrectly. If I buy the 411, plug it into my router, attach the printer, and download the DSM app...I should be ready to roll with what I discussed?

Pretty much I'll be setting mine up this evening so I'll let you know what I run into.

 

[VicVinegar]

Thanks for the responses guys, it helped me clear some question marks. I didn't realize Synology was about to refresh its products, I'll have to be on the lookout for that.

Interesting note about the license. I thought I saw that QNAP was charging for a license on the cameras, but didn't notice it from Synology. They probably just buried it somewhere on the site.

Regarding the drives, I did pick up a couple 2TB internals (a Seagate and a WD) from Best Buy (because of their ads, they are locked into decent pre-flood prices). I didn't think to look for 3TB externals, I just assumed there weren't deals to be had. I really do want to stick with 3TB out the gate though. It'd be silly to be 2's and then want to get more space six months later. Max it out the first time. I'm using one 2TB for stop-gap storage while I wait to put together the NAS, and the other will become a DVR expander.

 

[Generic George]

Thanks for the responses guys, it helped me clear some question marks. I didn't realize Synology was about to refresh its products, I'll have to be on the lookout for that.

I don't KNOW for certain they are refreshing their complete line up, but the fact that they have just released a 212 unit to replace the 211, does strongly indicate to me that you will be seeing something new at some point, the question is when. It might be tomorrow, it could easily be 3-6 months, before they update the model you are looking at.

Even if they do release one, the question is how much better would it be and would those improvements even matter to you. Given that they are already getting pretty close to the max you can possibly get with a gigabit ethernet connection, I'm not really sure if it would matter.

Interesting note about the license. I thought I saw that QNAP was charging for a license on the cameras, but didn't notice it from Synology. They probably just buried it somewhere on the site.

I've seen a number of people complaining about this in the comments on some of the Synology units. Apparently, they didn't require any licenses and then changed this in one of the firmware updates, but it does appear my information was at least somewhat in error. Apparently the first camera license is free, according to the product description below.

http://www.synology.com/products/spec.php?product_name=DS411+II&lang=us#p_submenu

# Surveillance Station
# MAX IP cam # (Licenses required) : 20 (1 Free License) (See All Supported IP Cameras)

Regarding the drives, I did pick up a couple 2TB internals (a Seagate and a WD) from Best Buy (because of their ads, they are locked into decent pre-flood prices). I didn't think to look for 3TB externals, I just assumed there weren't deals to be had. I really do want to stick with 3TB out the gate though. It'd be silly to be 2's and then want to get more space six months later. Max it out the first time. I'm using one 2TB for stop-gap storage while I wait to put together the NAS, and the other will become a DVR expander.

Depending on what you are using for a DVR, you may or may not be able to just use an off the shelf drive with it. I know with the Tivo Series 3 I have, I simply couldn't get it to reliably recognize or work with a LaCie external drive I bought. However, it worked right off the bat and hasn't given me a moments trouble once I got a dedicated DVR drive.

I strongly suspect there are differences in the controller firmware on the dedicated DVR expander drives that fix issues which can arise with standard HDD. Since there are going to be a number of issues particular to working with a DVR and it's real time operations. Your computer might not care if there's a momentary hickup in the data stream, but the DVR may well. There may be max drive size issues as well. From what I've read Tivo's don't care for drives larger than 1tb.