Best Traffic-Management Router for Gaming

[asasa45454]

Hi all,

Right now I'm using an RT-AC66U for a household with many devices connected to it wirelessly at once. The wireless seems fine, but the latency and packet loss becomes awful under loads or sometimes at total random. DSLreports gives it an F for bufferbloat. I tried connecting wired directly to the modem and still got an F. Bought a new modem, and it's still an F. This seems to be a Time Warner issue, but as I understand is only correctable with a router? By the way, the internet plan is 50/5.

I've tried reading as much as I could find about it and it's all really confusing. QoS did not help at all, and at least one person said this is due to insufficient CPU power and outdated QoS for this router?

It was looking like the Netgear X4S was the answer, but then some say Netgear is buggy and doesnt update databases for Streamboost? The AC-88U is rated well too, but almost $100 more and then others say QoS can't really fix downstream bufferbloat? Then I see a lot of recommendations for the AC-68u but its only a dual core 800mhz? Of course I'd prefer a cheaper router (Zyxel Armor Z2?) but if one option is clearly better I'd rather just pay the extra money for a lasting solution (no more than $300, though). I'd also prefer being able to use stock firmware.

As long as the other features are at least as good as an AC-66U's, all I care about is that it can maintain reasonable latencies. This one is going all the way into the 10000's.

TL;DR:

Need stable latencies, what router does it best < $300

 

[Trip]

Hi asasa. If latency and ploss are occurring largely at times of higher BW consumption and/or session count from your devices, that would indeed indicate a packet-handling issue on your router, perhaps switch(es) as well. The random occurrences could be upstream, but without consistent trace-routes, tough to tell, and my experience would still wager it's an issue on your end.

The advice you've been given is a bit misdirected in that 1) simply increasing the speed of your internet line beyond a base of several Mb/s up/down often won't improve the latency/ploss issues when saturation is still occurring and 2) increasing your router's CPU and/or wifi specs often won't do it, either. The problem most likely lies in QoS, or lack thereof. Most of these consumers boxes go about QoS rather poorly, in that they rely purely on older-style classing, shaping, or a generally sub-par mix of both, and many *still* lack more modern queuing disciplines, such as fq_codel (google it), even though it's been in the Linux kernel for some time... So I'd try a router than supports fq_codel, amongst better QoS controls in general. I'd wager you'll notice a big improvement from that change alone.

Models that support it include UBNT's EdgeRouter series (like the $50 ER-X) or any ARM-based Broadcom box that can run Tomato, like the $95 AC56U. So you don't have to go overspending on all-in-ones, necessarily. For added wifi performance, that's another discussion, and the newer AC models can be of use, but they're often excessive depending on how simple your wireless needs are. Just something to think about.

[Edits for grammar]

 

[asasa45454]

Hi Trip, thanks for your help.

I did see fq_codel and tried to understand it, but it's hard to search for when it might be called codel, fq_codel, or especially cake. Since it looked like the 88u didn't support it I kinda ignored it thinking something better must exist by now. That isn't the case? I didn't mention in the original post, but there is also some LAN traffic going through the router. Does that matter?

I can definitely try the AC-56U (I think I saw the 68U supports it too?); I'm just hesitant to flash it and then find out it's not fixing the problem and needs to go back. I'm kinda a tech-nerd and in full honesty, also have reservations about buying older products lol

 

[Nullity]

Yeah, I'd go for a ER-X or some Mikrotik device with fq_codel. Or you could install tomato, which I think supports fq_codel and is generally better than AsusWRT with regards to traffic-shaping.

Traffic-shaping is complex, so be prepared for that... Toastman has the best intro to QoS tutorial available, IMO: http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?threads/qos-tutorial.68795/

The information is generic enough to be useful to anyone wanting to learn the fundamentals of QoS.

 

[Trip]

It's easy to get confused by the terms. In a nutshell, codel predated fq_codel, which predates the yet-to-be-released cake. So, as of right now, fq_codel is what you want (to the best of my knowledge).

In terms of LAN traffic effecting your LAN-WAN latency/ploss, I'm sure improvement could be seen by up-prioritizing internet traffic over local, but the bulk of issues in scenarios like yours are more often due to lack of good enough QoS on the LAN-WAN interface, first and foremost. This is assuming, of course, L2 switching is functioning properly (which, unless you're seeing testable, measurable dropping of packets between LAN devices, is probably functioning fine).

Both the 56 and 68U support Tomato (or my preference, AdvancedTomato) and thus fq_codel. And I'd wager it will make a difference, assuming the rest of your config is setup properly, of course (that goes for any device). As far as being a tech nerd goes, it's different than being a network nerd, where the latter knows that the latest is not always the best, and segmentation of responsibilities is often a good thing (ie. one box for routing, others for wifi, etc.). We tend to learn this only by experience, unfortunately.

 

[asasa45454]

Thanks again for the help,

The ER-X looks like it's not wifi? I'm not really prepared for multiple routers; that read on QoS settings is overwhelming in itself.

So I can see an AC-56U for $100, 68U for $150, and the R7800 for $190.

I only mention the 7800 because I've read a lot of good things about it, and it's not far off from the others.

There's also an open box 56U with some Trend Micro "AIprotection", but only $30. Any thoughts on that? The description calls it a 53U but title says 56U (https://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemnumber=N82E16833320247R)

 

[L&LD]

That is not a picture of an RT-AC56U (don't waste your money).

 

[asasa45454]

Thanks for that incredibly fast warning. Figured something was up with it.

Edit: also, I read this now about fq_codel:

"It is a component of Qualcomm’s “streamboost” QoS system. It is in Netgear’s “Dynamic Qos” feature for their X4 product."

 

[Klueless]

Let's see what we can do with your existing router. Nullity suggested you read Toastman's QoS guide, I think that's an excellent suggestion. Let me apologize up front if my suggestions are obvious or stupid:

From a wired node and while no one else is on your network:

• Run a speed test to make sure you're getting what you're paying for ... about 50 x 5.
• Run your buffer bloat test.
• Then lie to your router and tell it downstream is only 40 and upstream is only 4 (Toastman explains it well.)
  • Rerun speed test. About 40 x 4 plus now?
  • Rerun your buffer bloat test. Hopefully a little better than F now?

Get used to looking at the traffic monitor that is built into the stock Asus firmware. You can learn a lot from it.

• If performance is bad and traffic is high it's probably you. Turn off some stuff and/or tweak QoS accordingly.
• If performance is bad and traffic is low:
  • It might be your Internet provider.
  • It might be wireless.
    • Move whatever you can from wireless to wired.
    • Make sure your wireless devices are fairly close to the router.
      • Turn off distant devices (for testing).
      • If you have a distant device on 5Ghz move it to 2.4Ghz

Oops, I'm late, gotta go ...