Clueless about MoCA, please help.

[Steve114]

I've read through countless forums and can't seem to find anyone with my setup. I've read through this forum and maybe I'm just not grasping the concept.

To start I have Xfinity for internet and basic cable - we rarely use the basic cable, was just part of the package.
My ultimate goal is to get internet out to my shop via coax using a MoCA adapter - then going to a simple router to provide WiFi. My extenders I have now do not provide a good connections as our house and shop are thickly insulated.
I currently have RG6 Coax ran out to my shop, and I have my second Xfinity box out there to watch the games on. Pretty useless as it doesn't provide internet.
I recently purchased an Actiontech MoCA 2.0 Ethernet to Coax adapter. I figured I could simply install this and have hook it up to my router. Well it didn't work. I still had the signal to my Xfinity box, but the Coax light was not on.
My current setup:
POI/ISP to a MoCA filter. From there I have it going to a 3 way splitter, one section goes off to my shop, the other goes into the attic which then connects to the item I mention below:
I went up into the attic and found a few things that I was unaware that Xfinity installed.
There is currently a PPC-5M-U/U box in which powers all off the outlets in the house. The input from outside goes into the input side of the PPC box, from there it has 3 outputs going to the rooms in the house, along with another input going into a DC adapter - which then continues to the Xfinity router and cable box in our living room.
This PPC box or amplifier says MoCA on it, and actually calls out MoCA connection on one of the outputs. So do I need to run a length of cable from this input, to a splitter which connects to my shop in order for the MoCA adapter out there to work?
I've attached a sketch of what I currently have, and of the PPC box. Please excuse my lack of knowledge of this technology. I called Xfinity up and they said I would need to get a separate internet plan which i'm not doing. I'm probably just missing something simple.
Also, I don't care about the other Coax connections in the house as we run everything off of Wifi.
Thanks!

 

[Steve114]

I'm assuming I need to buy another Actiontech 2.0 adapter, hook that up to my router and back to the Coax. Then hook up the one in my shop? I really don't want to buy another adapter if I don't need to. I will try to run the length of coax from the amplifier back down to the shop connection today.

 

[Steve114]

I'm assuming I need to buy another Actiontech 2.0 adapter, hook that up to my router and back to the Coax. Then hook up the one in my shop? I really don't want to buy another adapter if I don't need to. I will try to run the length of coax from the amplifier back down to the shop connection today.

 

[RogerSC]

That's the same amplified splitter that I have, and it is compatible with MoCA 2.0. Has a built-in POE filter, which is helpful as well. However, it doesn't act as a MoCA adapter itself, it's just part of your coax network. You need a MoCA adapter at each endpoint. Each endpoint (point of use, like at your router, or remote end of a MoCA run) has to have a MoCA adapter. I have 3 MoCA adapters, one with my gateway eero which is connected to both the coax network and the eero, and one each for my two main TV's (where there just happen to be eero nodes as well, in my case *smile*).

So you would need one MoCA adapter connected to your coax and your router, and one MoCA adapter at the other end of the run, in your garage. If you use MoCA elsewhere in your house to speed up streaming on your network, then you'll need another MoCA adapter for each of those. And keep in mind that splitters in your coax network need to be MoCA 2 compatible (up to 1675MHz.).

 

[Steve114]

That's the same amplified splitter that I have, and it is compatible with MoCA 2.0. Has a built-in POE filter, which is helpful as well. However, it doesn't act as a MoCA adapter itself, it's just part of your coax network. You need a MoCA adapter at each endpoint. Each endpoint (point of use, like at your router, or remote end of a MoCA run) has to have a MoCA adapter. I have 3 MoCA adapters, one with my gateway eero which is connected to both the coax network and the eero, and one each for my two main TV's (where there just happen to be eero nodes as well, in my case *smile*).

So you would need one MoCA adapter connected to your coax and your router, and one MoCA adapter at the other end of the run, in your garage. If you use MoCA elsewhere in your house to speed up streaming on your network, then you'll need another MoCA adapter for each of those. And keep in mind that splitters in your coax network need to be MoCA 2 compatible (up to 1675MHz.).

Roger thank you so much! I just got thru messing with this. I hooked the adapter up to each Coax port in the house and still didn't have a light on the Coax. I will order one today and report back.
Again thank you for the insight!

 

[krkaufman]

My current setup:
POI/ISP to a MoCA filter. From there I have it going to a 3 way splitter, one section goes off to my shop, the other goes into the attic which then connects to the item I mention below:

For clarification, between this description and your diagram, you may be referring to “2-way splitters” as “3-way splitters.” A splitter is labeled based on the number of output ports, not the total number of ports. (See these MoCA 2.0-rated splitters as examples.) You’ll want to use splitters right-sized to the need, to avoid any unnecessary signal losses.

Also, the diagram is in error in showing 4 amp output connections running to “4 outputs to rooms”; the 4 amp outputs are running to 3 other rooms ... in addition to the Living Room via the power inserter.

I'm assuming I need to buy another Actiontech 2.0 adapter, hook that up to my router and back to the Coax.

Not necessarily.

Xfinity router and cable box in our living room.

What is the specific model number of this Xfinity router?

(It’s possible that the Xfinity gateway offers a built-in MoCA bridge, possibly eliminating the need for a second standalone MoCA adapter.)

My ultimate goal is to get internet out to my shop

What’s your spec’d and/or tested download/upload rates from your provider? Do you have plans to upgrade at any point? And what speeds do you need available in the Shop?

(Maybe you can save some $$ on a cheaper MoCA 1.1 adapter [with built-in wireless access point], or may want to consider the new goCoax MoCA 2.5 adapters.)

To start I have Xfinity for internet and basic cable - we rarely use the basic cable,

I currently have RG6 Coax ran out to my shop, and I have my second Xfinity box out there to watch the games on.

Are the 2 Xfinity cable boxes pictured (Shop & Living Room) all you have for receiving/tuning the TV signal, or do you have cable boxes, not pictured in the diagram, at some of the other 4 locations connected via the amp?

Do you have any issues with the picture quality or TV reception on the cable box in the Shop?

(The answers to these questions would help determine whether you actually require the PPC amp, or if it could be replaced with a simple splitter, more amenable to MoCA.)

I will try to run the length of coax from the amplifier back down to the shop connection today.

Was this accomplished?

You’ll want/need this alternate coax run, if the amplifier is kept in place, because one critical flaw in the original setup is that you’re trying to pass MoCA signals between the input and output ports of the amplifier —- and so, as mentioned by @RogerSC, through the amp’s built-in MoCA filter, designed to block MoCA signals. (see Gandalf vs The Balrog)

​

On any MoCA amp, MoCA only passes between output ports ... though sometimes not even to/through the passive output port, or not without severe loss, depending on the amp’s design.


p.s. Re:

Also, I don't care about the other Coax connections in the house as we run everything off of Wifi.

Depending on budget, it’s a good practice to move what traffic that can to a wired segment, to leave the wireless spectrum for devices that have no other option.

 

[krkaufman]

Are there unused coax runs from the outside box to the Attic amp location, or from the Attic amp location to the Living Room? Or could one or the other be added?

(Just pondering the ability to isolate the cable Internet signals from all your other signals, perhaps a necessity as Comcast expands their DOCSIS 3.1 rollout ... whose signal range overlaps with MoCA)

 

[Steve114]

My replies are below in bold. I got internet out in my shop to sum it up. Sorry for the late reply, been very busy.

For clarification, between this description and your diagram, you may be referring to “2-way splitters” as “3-way splitters.” A splitter is labeled based on the number of output ports, not the total number of ports. (See these MoCA 2.0-rated splitters as examples.) You’ll want to use splitters right-sized to the need, to avoid any unnecessary signal losses.

My mistake, they are 2-way splitters.

Also, the diagram is in error in showing 4 amp output connections running to “4 outputs to rooms”; the 4 amp outputs are running to 3 other rooms ... in addition to the Living Room via the power inserter.

Not necessarily.
What is the specific model number of this Xfinity router?

(It’s possible that the Xfinity gateway offers a built-in MoCA bridge, possibly eliminating the need for a second standalone MoCA adapter.)

I don't have the specific model number, however I went on the gateway and enabled the MoCA. Tried hooking up a variety of options and I still didn't get a signal to my adapter.

What’s your spec’d and/or tested download/upload rates from your provider? Do you have plans to upgrade at any point? And what speeds do you need available in the Shop?

Spec'd is 60mbps, which is roughly what I'm getting when testing with a couple of online and local tools. Upload is roughly 10-12mbps.
Shop just needs to be enough to stream music or stream videos for my wife when she works out. Since I got it working, the speed in the shop is roughly 30mbps which is plenty for what we need.

(Maybe you can save some $$ on a cheaper MoCA 1.1 adapter [with built-in wireless access point], or may want to consider the new goCoax MoCA 2.5 adapters.)

I would, however I have already purchased one of the 2.0's.

Are the 2 Xfinity cable boxes pictured (Shop & Living Room) all you have for receiving/tuning the TV signal, or do you have cable boxes, not pictured in the diagram, at some of the other 4 locations connected via the amp?

Yes they are the only 2 boxes. We rarely use them, only time is usually during sports. Picture quality is fine. When the installer was at our house, he asked if we would use any of the connections. I said none in the bedrooms, but we would use on in our patio/garage area. He said we could just move the box from location to location based on preference which we have and it works. Box is small, maybe 5"x5". We have a pool and depending on sun or what we are doing, we either run the box from the shop, or the patio area and have the TV on an AV cart. Works great.

Do you have any issues with the picture quality or TV reception on the cable box in the Shop?

No, as mentioned above picture quality is great.

(The answers to these questions would help determine whether you actually require the PPC amp, or if it could be replaced with a simple splitter, more amenable to MoCA.)


Was this accomplished?


You’ll want/need this alternate coax run, if the amplifier is kept in place, because one critical flaw in the original setup is that you’re trying to pass MoCA signals between the input and output ports of the amplifier —- and so, as mentioned by @RogerSC, through the amp’s built-in MoCA filter, designed to block MoCA signals. (see Gandalf vs The Balrog)

View attachment 18151 ​

On any MoCA amp, MoCA only passes between output ports ... though sometimes not even to/through the passive output port, or not without severe loss, depending on the amp’s design.

I'm assuming your asking if I ran the additional coax run. After trying a bunch of different connections, this was the only way I could get it to work, ****In addition to the additional adapter I put at the router****
I tried each one independently and found that I did in fact need the second MoCA adapter. Once I hooked it up and tried it at all locations that were wired in the house / patio / shop and I was able to get the coax light to come on. However, for the shop, it was wired in the 2-way splitter at the POI. I ran a length of coax from the Amp to the shop connection itself (took one from the bedroom we will never use) and it worked right away.
I now have a WiFi router in my shop and also have the ability to hook up the Xfinity cable box if I want to. The WiFi signal is so strong, it's better than one of my extenders I have in my garage.


p.s. Re:

Depending on budget, it’s a good practice to move what traffic that can to a wired segment, to leave the wireless spectrum for devices that have no other option.

I have wired what can be. I may need to re-visit a few things as it seems the more people log on to the shops wifi router, it draws it down very quickly.

Thank you all for the replies, all in all I accomplished what I needed! Just need to fine tune a few thing possibly.

 

[krkaufman]

I'm assuming your asking if I ran the additional coax run. After trying a bunch of different connections, this was the only way I could get it to work, ****In addition to the additional adapter I put at the router****
I tried each one independentlyand found that I did in fact need the second MoCA adapter. Once I hooked it up and tried it at all locations that were wired in the house / patio / shop and I was able to get the coax light to come on. However, for the shop, it was wired in the 2-way splitter at the POI. I ran a length of coax from the Amp to the shop connection itself (took one from the bedroom we will never use) and it worked right away.

Right, as mentioned above, the Shop being connected upstream of the amp’s input port (especially with this amp having a built-in MoCA filter) would have prevented MoCA connectivity in the Shop, at least to any MoCA nodes connected via an amp output. Connecting the Shop via the new coax run to an amp output put the Shop on the same side of the amp as your main MoCA bridge, allowing connectivity.

And, yes, as you discovered and @RogerSC pointed-out, a single MoCA node does nothing, much like a wireless laptop couldn’t connect to the home network without a wireless access point making the connection possible and bridging the traffic to the LAN. You have to start by establishing the MoCA/Ethernet bridge (i.e. a MoCA access point).

I don't have the specific model number, however I went on the gateway and enabled the MoCA. Tried hooking up a variety of options and I still didn't get a signal to my adapter.

The Xfinity gateway’s built-in MoCA bridge should have been able to connect with a MoCA adapter in the Shop, once the new coax run was connected via an amp output, but stood no chance when the Shop was linked upstream of the amp.

If you stick with a standalone MoCA adapter as your main MoCA bridge at the gateway location, you’ll want to make sure that MoCA is disabled on the Xfinity gateway. You don’t want 2 devices bridging between the coax/MoCA and Ethernet segments.

Since I got it working, the speed in the shop is roughly 30mbps which is plenty for what we need.

30 Mbps is well below the capability of a pair of MoCA 2.0 adapters. Was this a test via a device wired to the Shop’s MoCA adapter or via the newly established wireless connection in the Shop?