Could use a little guidance on multi-node home network
- Thread starter Avery
- Start date
@Avery - If you take a look at Ruckus's most recent EoL/EoD doc, life cycle cadence seems to be about 2 to 3 years. The R500 was EOL'd 10/2018, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the R510 hit the chopping block in the next few weeks or months. From that point forward, another 1.5 to 2 years of software support, then three more years of security-only updates, before dropping support altogether. So from release date, usually around 4-5 years of software support, 7-8 years of security patches, before full EoL. Just about par for the course in the enterprise space; perhaps not the best (Cisco or Aruba may be better at times), but definitely better than many SMB vendors and almost any consumer brand.
As for analogous models, the newer versions at the medium tier would be the R520 and R550. There are five series (tiers): 300, 500, 600, 700 and 800, numbered roughly according to the amount of client density and range they're designed for. Historically, 700 and 500 series have been the most popular to deploy, so the bulk of eBay stock will be those. The R710 has a cult-like status (coming from the 7982\R700 design which made big waves). Like the R510, it will probably reach EoL at the same time. To go for longer support, you'll need to bump up to a _20, _30 or _50 suffix model, but you'll of course pay a premium in doing so.
One item you must keep in check when going up-series/suffix with Ruckus (or any AP vendor for that matter) is power draw. For example, the R720 requires a minimum of UPoE or PoE++ (802.3bt) in order to broadcast at max power. Otherwise, it will run at only partial power, reducing its performance, and consequently, you may have better off just buying a model that could run at full power on 802.3at, if that's all your switching and/or injectors provide for. So it's not just the cost of the AP itself, it's also the implications that it puts on your power budget and PSE hardware cost.
Hope that helps.
@coxhaus - Yeah the 720 is quite a nice unit. I run one at home. It massacres neighboring RF interference without batting an eyelash. But for ~$700 each street price, I would hope so.
As for analogous models, the newer versions at the medium tier would be the R520 and R550. There are five series (tiers): 300, 500, 600, 700 and 800, numbered roughly according to the amount of client density and range they're designed for. Historically, 700 and 500 series have been the most popular to deploy, so the bulk of eBay stock will be those. The R710 has a cult-like status (coming from the 7982\R700 design which made big waves). Like the R510, it will probably reach EoL at the same time. To go for longer support, you'll need to bump up to a _20, _30 or _50 suffix model, but you'll of course pay a premium in doing so.
One item you must keep in check when going up-series/suffix with Ruckus (or any AP vendor for that matter) is power draw. For example, the R720 requires a minimum of UPoE or PoE++ (802.3bt) in order to broadcast at max power. Otherwise, it will run at only partial power, reducing its performance, and consequently, you may have better off just buying a model that could run at full power on 802.3at, if that's all your switching and/or injectors provide for. So it's not just the cost of the AP itself, it's also the implications that it puts on your power budget and PSE hardware cost.
Hope that helps.
@coxhaus - Yeah the 720 is quite a nice unit. I run one at home. It massacres neighboring RF interference without batting an eyelash. But for ~$700 each street price, I would hope so.
Trip I have seen the R720 cheaper less than $500 and heard of package deals on refurbs for less than $400. I did not know you needed POE++, 802.3bt power. I don't own anything that has this level of power. Cisco makes it, I just have not needed it. How hot do the POE++ switches run? Do you know of a Cisco small business switch with POE++ power?
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Ok, so 1-2 years on features, and 4-5 years on security updates for the 00 versions. Are the 300 or 600 series worth looking at, in comparison to Cisco or ubiquity?
Cisco 350 series has a few ports per switch at 60w:
"The following switches support 802.3at PoE+, 802.3af PoE, and Cisco prestandard (legacy) PoE on any of the RJ45 network ports. 60W PoE is also supported on selected RJ-45 network ports. Maximum power of 60W is delivered to any of the 60W PoE ports, and maximum power of 30W is delivered to any of the other RJ45 network ports, until the PoE budget for the switch is reached"
Cisco 350 series has a few ports per switch at 60w:
"The following switches support 802.3at PoE+, 802.3af PoE, and Cisco prestandard (legacy) PoE on any of the RJ45 network ports. 60W PoE is also supported on selected RJ-45 network ports. Maximum power of 60W is delivered to any of the 60W PoE ports, and maximum power of 30W is delivered to any of the other RJ45 network ports, until the PoE budget for the switch is reached"
Yes, the R320, the 610 or 650. The 320 is a low-power AP akin to the EAP225v3, UAP-AC-LITE or Cisco CBW140AC. The 600 series is a mid-power, mid-range, med-high density series. You won't find much on eBay (maybe some 610's), and lowest channel partner price I've seen on the R320 is $212 at ProVantage, so probably better value/deals to be had on other models (if you're shopping used/refurb).
Here's the full current model comparison. Also, here is the Ruckus PoE interoperability guide. The R720 is listed as supporting 802.3at, but in my experience, without PoE over all 4 pairs, it won't run at full power.
Regarding 60W ports on on CiscoSG350 switches, yes, starting with the SG350-28P, 4 ports offer 60W PoE, and should drive higher-power APs requiring more than 30W (the R720 included).
Here's the full current model comparison. Also, here is the Ruckus PoE interoperability guide. The R720 is listed as supporting 802.3at, but in my experience, without PoE over all 4 pairs, it won't run at full power.
Regarding 60W ports on on CiscoSG350 switches, yes, starting with the SG350-28P, 4 ports offer 60W PoE, and should drive higher-power APs requiring more than 30W (the R720 included).
First off, Trip, I want to say thanks so much for the time and advise you have provided. I'm very thankful for your help.
I'll make a decision between used ruckus or Cisco 140/240 today.
Do you have any advice on the exterior access points? I see Ruckus and Cisco AP's are listed for interior use, and while Ruckus makes outdoor APs, they are harder to find and more spendy. Any Cisco/Ruckus recommendations there? Also, thoughts on using something like a sheltered (like under the soffit) H510, even though I will drop well below it's 32 degree range?
I'm not sure what to expect for range outside... medium density mature trees.
I'll make a decision between used ruckus or Cisco 140/240 today.
Do you have any advice on the exterior access points? I see Ruckus and Cisco AP's are listed for interior use, and while Ruckus makes outdoor APs, they are harder to find and more spendy. Any Cisco/Ruckus recommendations there? Also, thoughts on using something like a sheltered (like under the soffit) H510, even though I will drop well below it's 32 degree range?
I'm not sure what to expect for range outside... medium density mature trees.
I used a Cisco AP in a back window for my outside 5G coverage. It worked OK probably not as good as a real outside unit.
Have you thought about maybe using less units like the Ruckus R720 AP to keep the cost down since they cost more, maybe use 2 or 3 since they cover a larger area? The price would be more in line to using 5 other APs. You just need to use bt POE power.
Have you thought about maybe using less units like the Ruckus R720 AP to keep the cost down since they cost more, maybe use 2 or 3 since they cover a larger area? The price would be more in line to using 5 other APs. You just need to use bt POE power.
@Avery - Very welcome.
Between those two, I'd go used Ruckus, and try for R510's or R710's, so you can run APs at max power on 802.3at; maybe a 720 or 730 on a good deal and/or if you can get a switch with higher-power ports, or don't mind .bt injectors. For outside, I'd also keep your eyes open for the T310, T610 or T710; a word of warning there: almost every model has separate SKUs for omni-directional and sector/directional models, so depending on what you need for coverage, pay special attention there.
That said, perhaps I downplayed them too much earlier, but any particular reason(s) you've ruled out Omada and UniFi? Either would have more form factor choices than CBW (for now anyways), especially UniFi, plus both would be substantially less costly than Ruckus (even used in many cases), especially Omada. If you just want the best possible at any cost level, then the want for Ruckus is understandable.
Between those two, I'd go used Ruckus, and try for R510's or R710's, so you can run APs at max power on 802.3at; maybe a 720 or 730 on a good deal and/or if you can get a switch with higher-power ports, or don't mind .bt injectors. For outside, I'd also keep your eyes open for the T310, T610 or T710; a word of warning there: almost every model has separate SKUs for omni-directional and sector/directional models, so depending on what you need for coverage, pay special attention there.
That said, perhaps I downplayed them too much earlier, but any particular reason(s) you've ruled out Omada and UniFi? Either would have more form factor choices than CBW (for now anyways), especially UniFi, plus both would be substantially less costly than Ruckus (even used in many cases), especially Omada. If you just want the best possible at any cost level, then the want for Ruckus is understandable.
There are multiple threads going on this. Like I said on another thread on this is to test iPhone voice using Wi-Fi calling and if it does not roam then send them back. Call an iPhone on 1 AP from another AP and then roam to the same AP as the person being called and see if you lose words as you roam or dropped call. My Cisco APs pass this test and I do not have any dropped calls when roaming voice.
Thank you, both.
coxhaus - good point on the actual test and return if not working acceptably. Unfortunately, I'm burning it at both ends with a large remodel (outside of work), so I just don't have the time to do that level of testing, else I would.
Trip - I read up a few reviews on the UniFi, and it sounded like to much twiddling of knobs needed for the time I have available right now. So, I ordered a used R510 @$150, and will order another when I see a decent price. If I understand correctly, I should be good on security patches 5.5+ years, at which point AC is probably a thing of the past. I don't need more than 2 AP's for about another 4 months, and the prices will inevitably drop after they make the End of Sale announcement. The only part I think would be more spendy (than say new UniFI) would be the outdoor units.
Any reason I can't take a H310/R310/R510 and mount it outside in a PVC enclosure for protection from the elements and physical security on the Ethernet?
Ideally I would get an AP that would be 180 degrees of coverage, and the Ruckus ones are omni, 120 deg, and 30 deg. Any thoughts on mounting an omni on the wall, and putting something blocking (sheet metal, wire mesh, etc) in the wall to block the signal through the wall? Or is it not an issue?
coxhaus - good point on the actual test and return if not working acceptably. Unfortunately, I'm burning it at both ends with a large remodel (outside of work), so I just don't have the time to do that level of testing, else I would.
Trip - I read up a few reviews on the UniFi, and it sounded like to much twiddling of knobs needed for the time I have available right now. So, I ordered a used R510 @$150, and will order another when I see a decent price. If I understand correctly, I should be good on security patches 5.5+ years, at which point AC is probably a thing of the past. I don't need more than 2 AP's for about another 4 months, and the prices will inevitably drop after they make the End of Sale announcement. The only part I think would be more spendy (than say new UniFI) would be the outdoor units.
Any reason I can't take a H310/R310/R510 and mount it outside in a PVC enclosure for protection from the elements and physical security on the Ethernet?
Ideally I would get an AP that would be 180 degrees of coverage, and the Ruckus ones are omni, 120 deg, and 30 deg. Any thoughts on mounting an omni on the wall, and putting something blocking (sheet metal, wire mesh, etc) in the wall to block the signal through the wall? Or is it not an issue?
R510 are probably a cheap way to test Ruckus. Let me know if they pass the voice over Wi-Fi test.
The Cisco CBW240ac are 4 x 4 APs. I am hearing the CBW240ac is an Cisco Aironet 1840I with reduced software. I guess kind of like Ruckus using unleashed software at a cheaper price. The CBW240ac AP don't require licenses like Aironet but they don't support a separate controller for higher performance either.
Amazon has the Cisco CBW240ac APs for $172 last time I looked brand new with a long warranty.
The Cisco CBW240ac are 4 x 4 APs. I am hearing the CBW240ac is an Cisco Aironet 1840I with reduced software. I guess kind of like Ruckus using unleashed software at a cheaper price. The CBW240ac AP don't require licenses like Aironet but they don't support a separate controller for higher performance either.
Amazon has the Cisco CBW240ac APs for $172 last time I looked brand new with a long warranty.
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I saw that post.Similar threads
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