Do I have unrealistic expectations of WiFi?

[hammy434]

So I just bought an AX86U because it seemed to be a good all round WiFi 6 router that wasn't too expensive and had good range. My old setup was 2x Ubiquiti AC Pros, and I'm probably gonna go back to that. My theory was that having just 1 AP would be more reliable as there's less roaming. But it actually seems worse, when it switches between 2.4 and 5GHz it drops out a lot (more often than my Ubiquiti setup), and it seems like Asus don't support 802.11r either. And although the range is slightly better, it's not a huge difference, I guess that's just physics but yeah. The smart roaming thing effectively just seems to kick devices off WiFi when they reach the thresholds which is hardly an elegent setup... but even with it turned off it's not smooth either. I've tried changing the smart roaming settings too, but couldn't get it smooth, is there any other settings worth changing?

I just want to be able to play Among Us on my iPhone while moving around the house but every setup I've tried can't do that reliably. Ubiquiti is the least worst but it still drops a lot. my old AC68U doesn't seem to allow band steering at all, so my iPhone was camping on 5GHz until it dropped out. my ISP supplied router (VM Hub 4) had the worst roaming between bands ever.

I see that some Netgear and TP-LINK systems support 802.11r, k, v. But I'm wondering if it's even worth trying them if my expectations are unrealistic? I know different vendors can have better implementations than others though.

Also is 802.11r, k, v just for roaming between different APs on the same band? Or also for same & different APs on different bands too?

Sorry this post is a bit of a mess... I guess I'm just wondering whether it's worth continuing to pursue more reliable WiFi roaming, by exploring other brands systems, or should I just go back to my old setup? Thanks everyone.

 

[paulbates]

The nature of the space you're trying to service is missing in the write up, and is an important part of understanding what might work or not. Example.. I have one Asus router as the AP; its in a closet in the middle of the second floor of a 2400 sq' colonial style house.. so having only one AP serves me well.
Can you describe the space and construction materials around the area you are servicing. You had 2 APs initially, why?

 

[Tech Junky]

Also is 802.11r, k, v just for roaming between different APs on the same band? Or also for same & different APs on different bands too?

Take a look into the NWA210AX / NWA110AX as they handle large spaces well and have very little drawbacks other than not being 6E at this point. I have a 1 of the 210's and it covers 1300sq ft edge to edge w/o any issue.

 

[hammy434]

The nature of the space you're trying to service is missing in the write up, and is an important part of understanding what might work or not. Example.. I have one Asus router as the AP; its in a closet in the middle of the second floor of a 2400 sq' colonial style house.. so having only one AP serves me well.
Can you describe the space and construction materials around the area you are servicing. You had 2 APs initially, why?

I'm in the UK in a detached brick house, it's about 20-25 years old. I managed to find a floor plan, unfortunately it doesn't have the dimensions on it, but our houses are a lot smaller than say in the USA. Bedroom 4 used to be a garage, it's my room and is about 5.8mx2.55m. Conservatory was added & bedroom 4 converted from garage to bedroom a few years after the house got built.

I wanted 2 APs so I could get 5GHz in my room (Bedroom 4 on the floor plan). On the floor plan I've attached, APs are green, AP 1 is where I've got the Asus now, I've turned off the Ubiquiti APs so it's just that one atm. It's able to get 5GHz at reasonable strength into lounge, conservatory, d/s hall, utility room, u/s hall, u/s bathroom, and bedroom 2. The other rooms need 2.4GHz. When I was on my Ubiquiti setup I also had the 2nd AP (in bedroom 4), it was able to cover bedroom 4, master bedroom and en-suite with 5GHz, and also serves the driveway with 2.4. The wall between the lounge and bedroom 4 seems really thick and just kills 5GHz, to be honest 2.4 isn't the best either, but my connectivity/roaming issues are happening even in decent WiFi signal areas.

Hope that helps understand my situation better. I've also been considering if I go for another mesh system, adding another AP to the Kitchen using wireless backhaul to cover that better (I only have ethernet from the lounge to bedroom 4).

 

[shoman94]

Do you happened to have and Ethernet going to Bedroom2? I'd put a 3rd one there. If not then add the 3rd AP just inside the Conservatory under Bedroom 2. If you want new APs that can also do Mesh, I'd look at the Zyxel NWA210AX which also supports 802.11r, k, v.

 

[hammy434]

Thanks I appreciate the advice. I guess my question is like is the seamless kind of roaming I’m looking for achievable?

Tried this Asus on its own & I don’t mind too much if it drops to 2.4GHz in some rooms as long as it goes to it smoothly, but that doesn’t seem to be working so far. I’ve tried enabling smart connect again & changing the settings to be less aggressive (-55 2.4G->5G threshold instead of the default -62) will see how that goes. My theory with trying this instead of my old Ubiquiti setup was 1 AP may be more reliable as there’s less roaming involved. But ofc if I could get 5GHz in every room via a mesh system with seamless roaming that would be the ideal setup.

I don’t really need an AP in the conservatory or bedroom 2, Lounge AP can reach them, the barriers to my WiFi coverage seem to be walls more than distance tbh, so 5GHz gets through 1 wall/floor ok, but anything more is too much really. Except for bedroom 4 which used to be a garage seems to have a really thick wall, that also seems to effect the master bedroom & en-suite above it.

I only have Ethernet in the lounge (where internet comes in) & in my room (bedroom 4) unfortunately.

Hope that all made sense

 

[shoman94]

Roaming will depend on many factors... the biggest being how fast you are moving room to room. Even with fast roaming it is possible to get dropped momentarily. I prefer separating 2.4 and 5G. I use 2.4 for only IoT's and any device that only does 2.4.
Wifi bounces all over so signal strength can often give erroneous info. I like to use the Antenna Propagation to help plan out my AP locations. With my current APs I can walk around on WiFi Calling, Zoom, downloading files etc and I have no drops. Instead of having one in the middle I have 2 APs, one each end of my house and this allows me to cover my outdoors all around my house very well.

Using my APs, I'd put one on the opposite wall facing the Kitchen, one in Bed4 wall facing back towards the conservatory and then on on the wall Lounge to conservatory facing the Kitchen in Mesh mode. Again other brands and models would vary. I have no faith in consumer Mesh EXCEPT the Eero 6 Pro. 3 of those would work excellent for you as well.

 

[thiggins]

First, ther AP/router isn't switching, the client (STA) is. This is likely due to lower signal level from the single router.

11r isn't really a factor. It enables multi-millisecond BSS switching, which isn't needed in most cases. 11k/v/r all require support on the AP and STA.

Minor nit: Moving between bands on a single AP is usually referred to as a band-steer, not a roam.

Roaming behavior is primarily determined by the STA, not the AP. As you've seen, if an AP is insistent about "helping" a STA that doesn't want to roam, you likely end up with a disconnect.
Much more about roaming in this series:

Wi-Fi Roaming Secrets Revealed - SmallNetBuilder

Ever wonder what happens behind the scenes when Wi-Fi devices roam, or more likely don't? We'll show you why the "seamless" roaming Wi-Fi gear makers promise is still as elusive as a Yeti.

www.smallnetbuilder.com

 

[hammy434]

First, ther AP/router isn't switching, the client (STA) is. This is likely due to lower signal level from the single router.

11r isn't really a factor. It enables multi-millisecond BSS switching, which isn't needed in most cases. 11k/v/r all require support on the AP and STA.

Minor nit: Moving between bands on a single AP is usually referred to as a band-steer, not a roam.

Roaming behavior is primarily determined by the STA, not the AP. As you've seen, if an AP is insistent about "helping" a STA that doesn't want to roam, you likely end up with a disconnect.
Much more about roaming in this series:

Wi-Fi Roaming Secrets Revealed - SmallNetBuilder

Ever wonder what happens behind the scenes when Wi-Fi devices roam, or more likely don't? We'll show you why the "seamless" roaming Wi-Fi gear makers promise is still as elusive as a Yeti.

www.smallnetbuilder.com

Thanks that’s really helpful. With regard to band steering, does it work in the same or similar way to roaming between APs? So like would 802.11k/v/r be used to band steer on compatible APs and STAs?

 

[thiggins]

The article goes into more detail on what each of k,v and r do. 11v is the most directly involved with triggering an actual BSS change event via Transition Management Requests. It requires support on both AP and STA, as do all 11k/v/r features.

Roaming or band steering is just a change of BSS association for a STA. Every radio in an AP or router has a unique BSS. So, yes, an 11v transition management request could move the STA between radios on the same AP. But, in my experience, most STAs follow their own rules baked into their drivers, for roaming or band steering. Part of this is poor or limited implementation of 11k/v in consumer routers. Part of it is the same issue on consumer devices. But the general rule is STAs RULE for making roaming and band steering decisions.

One last point, smooth roaming requires some signal overlap between APs. Because if a STA can't see an alternative BSS, it will stay where it is. This is hard to do with brick walls and especially hard to do if you want the STA to stay on 5 GHz. This is likely why you see STAs switching between 5 and 2.4 GHz when you move around your home.

The STA will see a 2.4 GHz signal before it sees a 5 GHz and will always see it as a higher RSSI. If the STA has a simple move-to-the-highest-signal roam rule, then it will move to the new 2.4 GHz radio. But if it also takes other factors into account (congestion on the new AP, MCS/link rate), it may wait until it sees a 5 GHz BSS.

This is where 11k helps by providing information about neighboring BSSes. But, again, it all depends on the implementation on both AP and STA.

 

[Tech9]

My old setup was 2x Ubiquiti AC Pros, and I'm probably gonna go back to that

Clients on UniFi network switch faster between AP's than AiMesh. Omada is doing it faster too, but the network controller must be active. From home routers Orbi and Eero are the better ones. I recently purchased a cheap no-frills Deco M4 system for one of my friends. He has 100Mbps ISP Cable and doesn't know anything networking. Easy button solution was needed. I was surprised how smooth this one is at $100 for 2-pack.

 

[shoman94]

Any device you need to support fast roaming likely support fast roaming. SMB APs are hands down much better at roaming than any residential setup. 802.11r indeed works.