Firmware support and new router buy.

[thi4mi]

Hi,

I am looking to buy new router to replace my failing AC68U. And I thought of something released recently or not too old
so I can run it with Merlin firmware for 2-3 years. AC standard would be enough plus 1/2 USB ports. I found ASUS webpage
https://www.asus.com/event/network/EOL-product/ with routers replacemet recommendations. But I have no idea for how long
these or new/other models will be getting Merlin firmware, I did not find such information. Is there any place I could find that info
or only ASUS/Merlin could answer?
My guess will be to buy latest model with required spec so it will get long support but I believe this may not be that simple.

Thanks.

 

[RMerlin]

But I have no idea for how long
these or new/other models will be getting Merlin firmware, I did not find such information.

It's impossible to predict. I am dependent on Asus' own support, and also whether they keep all models based on the same code or start forking to different versions, like the RT-AC87U and RT-AC3200 did by never getting updated to the 384.xxxxx code.

 

[qadhi]

AC88U is good if you plan to stick to the AC standard.

AX88U or the newly supported AX11000 are good for the next few years.

 

[pdc]

AC86U is actually newer than the AC88U and would give you very good performance. It's a "HND" router so the latest architecture, and wifi 5 ("AC") is still very viable for the next few years. The upgrade pick is AX86U (wifi 6), with double the ram and a quad core CPU, if you like running scripts (I can quit any time ). I own two AC86 (AiMesh) and it's a workhorse.

 

[PeterR]

AC86U is actually newer than the AC88U and would give you very good performance. It's a "HND" router so the latest architecture, and wifi 5 ("AC") is still very viable for the next few years. The upgrade pick is AX86U (wifi 6), with double the ram and a quad core CPU, if you like running scripts (I can quit any time ). I own two AC86 (AiMesh) and it's a workhorse.

There seems to be mixed views on the AC86U, for instance a long thread here regarding thermal issues and many reports of bad thermal design by Asus (thermal cycling causing cracked solder joints, etc.). Does anyone know if these problems have been solved by Asus in production and if so when was the change?

I see a lot of 'refurbished' AC86U for sale online, I'm wondering if a purchase will quickly become ewaste.

 

[pdc]

Oh good point, I have seen people mention reliability problems. Mine have been fine, and they run at 75 °C, so heat has not been a problem (unlike PC processors, the router chipsets are good to more like 100 °C). Since mine have been good, I don't have a good handle on whether the production problems have been solved or when.

The AC86 (and related AC2900) are the only "HND" AC-class routers supported by Merlin. That gives you the option to run cake (quality of service) and good throughput for VPN. I would not recommend a non-HND unit at this point, but as you can see from my signature, I do enjoy using the router as a script machine. It's just so cool to have my router also be its own DNS server, ad-blocker, and time server! But that's just me, it depends on what you want to do with it.

The alternative is to get an AX68, which would be roughly comparable to your AC68 in terms of bandwidth, with a boost in memory and CPU (4x memory and 2x clock plus the updated HND architecture). I think it's brand new though, so no reliability data.

This is handy for comparing at least the basics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asus_routers (AX68 not yet listed, but it's on ASUS's site at https://www.asus.com/us/Networking-IoT-Servers/WiFi-6/All-series/RT-AX68U/)

 

[mromero]

There seems to be mixed views on the AC86U, for instance a long thread here regarding thermal issues and many reports of bad thermal design by Asus (thermal cycling causing cracked solder joints, etc.). Does anyone know if these problems have been solved by Asus in production and if so when was the change?

I see a lot of 'refurbished' AC86U for sale online, I'm wondering if a purchase will quickly become ewaste.

I would only buy a new Asus AC86U brand new at under US$95. net. I consider it a throwaway device. Burnt through two already, the return deposit etc. is not worth it here. The current one I have attached a fan on its butt.

The Asus AX86U is the next step up in this model range but outrageously priced in these times of pandemic and untested for longevity. I may buy this when it is at half price on sale but would still stick a fan on the rear.

The Asus router marketing is more about whiz-bang gaming features, Trend Micro etc., and less about robust construction, cooling and reliability.

 

[thi4mi]

Thanks everyone for the input, I appreciate it.

Initially I was looking at AC86U but I think it was released almost 4 years ago plus it has temperature problems.
Now I am more after AX58U or AX68U and eventually in the feature I may upgrade to AX86U or AX88U.
I am not a fan of having multiple services on one box as this is single point of failure unless I have HA configured. But never did that on routers.
And I agree ASUS routers are more about bells and whistles but I have bad experience with DD-WRT, Tomato and really like Merlin's work

Cheers.

 

[pirx73]

AC68U user here. I plan to buy AX68U and move AC68 to the role of AiMesh AP node on the second floor.

 

[pdc]

Now I am more after AX58U or AX68U and eventually in the feature I may upgrade to AX86U or AX88U.

Note that the AX58 has fewer wireless channels than your AC68 (2x2 vs 3x3) so not as much wifi bandwidth, if that matters to you. AX68 is 3x3 and AX86 / AX88 are 4x4.

I am not a fan of having multiple services on one box as this is single point of failure unless I have HA configured. But never did that on routers.

Very true! I have an AiMesh setup, so if I have a hardware failure in one I can put the other one into service. Not HA, but it is an option in a pinch.

And I agree ASUS routers are more about bells and whistles but I have bad experience with DD-WRT, Tomato and really like Merlin's work

Same here, I used to be a big tomato fan, but they have not kept up with modern hardware. I switched to ASUS routers w/Merlin and am not looking back!

 

[pirx73]

Note that the AX58 has fewer wireless channels than your AC68 (2x2 vs 3x3) so not as much wifi bandwidth, if that matters to you. AX68 is 3x3 and AX86 / AX88 are 4x4.

This is true, however if your wireless clients do not have 3x3 or 4x4 themselves they do not benefit from router having 3x3/4x4 at all
Most smartphones have 1x1, laptops - 2x2, only high end ones have 3x3
For desktops - 3x3 PCIe cards are quite expensive.

 

[Jerom7]

Nice comparison/review : https://www.mbreviews.com/asus-rt-ax58u-vs-rt-ac86u/2/

Internal thermal design is mentioned (AC68U issue vs AC86U being Ok) and a 2021 update with latest firmwares would be nice.
Conclusion: indeed wifi6 laptops/smartphones will take over n/ac devices within the next few years only...

 

[dscline]

Talternative is to get an AX68, which would be roughly comparable to your AC68 in terms of bandwidth, with a boost in memory and CPU (4x memory and 2x clock plus the updated HND architecture). I think it's brand new though, so no reliability data.

I have two AX68s, one I picked up new a couple months ago when they first came out, and I just got another as a used Amazon return. It's too soon to say anything about long term reliability, but so far it's been stable, and they run cooler than my AC68, and my new AX86. the AC68 runs the warmest out of all of them, but not unreasonably so.

 

[mromero]

Nice comparison/review : https://www.mbreviews.com/asus-rt-ax58u-vs-rt-ac86u/2/

Internal thermal design is mentioned (AC68U issue vs AC86U being Ok) and a 2021 update with latest firmwares would be nice.
Conclusion: indeed wifi6 laptops/smartphones will take over n/ac devices within the next few years only...

I see no reference to "Internal thermal design". What I do note and which I do not see in this review is that the AX-58U has non-detachable antennas. In the pre-owned for sale of this router I see a few references to broken / loose antennas. The AC-86U you can replace the antennas.

 

[Jerom7]

Right, not "thermal" - internal design only (pictures).

 

[dscline]

This is true, however if your wireless clients do not have 3x3 or 4x4 themselves they do not benefit from router having 3x3/4x4 at all

Except the whole point of MU-MIMO is that the streams can be split up between multiple clients. A 3x3 AP could theoretically transmit to three 1x1 clients simultaneously.

 

[avtella]

3x3 MU is kinda pointless as most clients would be 2x2 so you most likely wouldn’t avail of MU on anything less than a 4x4 router in practical terms. Most decent phones actually would be 2x2 not 1x1 unless you are at the very low end.

On Broadcom routers I’d still disable MU it’s still hasn’t made too big a difference in my experience but at times has led to instability. In my experience only the Qualcomm models like Synology RT2600AC, Netgear R7800/RAX120 do MU well.

 

[mromero]

Except the whole point of MU-MIMO is that the streams can be split up between multiple clients. A 3x3 AP could theoretically transmit to three 1x1 clients simultaneously.

I see the price for the RT AC86U dropping in Asia to US$120. It may be wise to scoop up a few and do the fan adaptation.
Here is my fan adaptation using a new, high quality CPU cooler derated from 12V to 5 volt. It is a a slap dash adaptation until I get the Noctua, but for now it is puurfect! Asus RT AC 86U with cooling fan

We are entering into summer now with delicious breeze in the Western Caribbean:

Current Temperatures: 42 °C - 48 °C - 64 °C

Current Weather: 33 °C° Precipitation: 1% Humidity: 55% Wind: 14 km/h

 

[RMerlin]

On Broadcom routers I’d still disable MU it’s still hasn’t made too big a difference in my experience but at times has led to instability. In my experience only the Qualcomm models like Synology RT2600AC, Netgear R7800/RAX120 do MU well.

I believe @thiggins wrote an article and did some actual tests a few years ago to determine the impact of MU-MIMO on performance. I'm sure he can provide us with a link to that article, I'm too lazy to look it up myself

 

[dscline]

I believe @thiggins wrote an article and did some actual tests a few years ago to determine the impact of MU-MIMO on performance. I'm sure he can provide us with a link to that article, I'm too lazy to look it up myself

Here's one, though I'd like to be optimistic and think the hardware and firmware may have improved some since then.