Future proof wireless

[TempEC]

For months I've been looking and comparing but I can't seem to find a wireless device that just does it all. Apparantly I'm asking for too much but I must find a good compromise and I'm having real trouble doing so.

Here's my list of requirements:
A device (Access point, wireless router, something else?) that provides a
wifi hotspot that supports :

1. VLAN (a must, I want to create a guest network but also route access to a VPN and direct internet access, and I want to create a special vlan just for jumbo packets)
2. SNMP (need to have some kind of monitoring, actually not that important but combined with vlan it's rarely a problem)
3. MIMO (multiple antennas) (I hope this will improve the stability of my wireless and of course the extra throughput is welcome - not sure if it helps with the effective range)
4. Simultaneous dual band (simply because I want to be compatible with as many as possible devices looking to the future)
5. Wireless N 300mbps or higher (I'd love to get 450mbps or 1300 or higher obviously, but I'll settle for a decent 300 rating)
6. Gigabit LAN (an absolute must. Why have wireless that's faster than the exit port?)
7. IPv6 (I would have thought this was standard by now, but apparantly it's quite rare for wireless? I hope this is not the case for switches because I need to get a new switch as well)
8. Wi-Fi Multimedia (WMM) (not important but if I'm going for fancy new wireless, I want my QoS)
9. Jumboframe support (I want it for optimal NAS access)
10. WDS (wireless distribution system, I want it for future extensibility but I don't think it's important since I don't truly understand what it does)
11. (optional) RADIUS support (since I'm getting fed up with managing logins and manual security settings - but it's a one time deal anyway so I can live without this. WPA radius is almost universal anyway
12. (Optionally, not important) external antenna support (to improve wireless performance? I'm no expert in this area but I wanted to keep my options open)

And since I'm not sure what it actually is : What about "VPN pass-through
support?" Is it needed for access points or only on routers? What does it
do? I use a VPN at home, but do I need "pass-through" support for it to
work??

I'd love some feedback on my requirements and what I would really love is to find a good wireless device with VLANs, 300N+, gigabit LAN and as many of the other options listed above as possible. All help is appreciated!

 

[thiggins]

You need to look at business-class access points. We just reviewed one that meets most of your requirements. I suggest dropping jumbo frames as a requirement. They don't really help with today's computer bus interconnects and Ethernet chipsets.

WMM is standard in 802.11n. But it doesn't really do anything unless you have applications that can understand its tagging.

 

[tipstir]

Flow Control, Jumbo frames supported Ethernet, Switches, Routers, NAS an etc. I only use those features on 1000m nodes and not on 100m nodes. This SMB AP won't do for me though very interesting review on internals and how it performs.

One from meraki AP is coming here I'll be able to test it and let you know how it goes.

Current ESR600H in AP mode (using 9K JB, Flow Control Enabled 1000m on port from Switch) only shown attached. It's always 100% no matter where I am in the house here.

Ran this test on my WiFi client newest laptop here.. Results are as good as Wired Gigabit WAN test. When using my JASPER script on Windows 7 P64

 

[TempEC]

Well that's where the problems started. I can't seem to find any recent business access points. They all top out at 300mbps and usually no simultaneous dual band.

Perhaps some more context to explain my viewpoint : I have an ancient US Robotics 8054 wireless router, 54g. This was a rather standard wireless device, store bought without much knowledge on my side about the subject. This fossil manages to have snmp on board, yet on more recent devices snmp has become some kind of über l33t feature.

I can see why they don't offer VLANs but the reason I needed them in the first place is because I wanted a guest WLAN. Now obviously modern devices offer this functionality out of the box but I don't like the available configuration options plus I can't route them using vlan tags in my switches deeper into my network. After all, I'd like to run them through a squid proxy. Add to that that I have guests that I know and like and guests that I don't know and just want to be nice to. Meaning guests that can have local access but don't need to know my admin password and guests that should just get internet access.
Which made me think about VLANs and when I got to that subject I could think of a dozen other reasons to set up wireless VLANs, such as a direct-to-internet tunnel and a VPN bridged subnet.

Other than that I want my gaming and my video streaming performance which makes it a lot more difficult than "just" buying enterprise stuff.

I started by looking at stuff from Linksys D-Link because that's what they have in local shops. That's when I heard about 450mbps and I wanted to wait for that. That's when I was looking at netgear stuff and I read a preview on their WNDAP320 and it sounded great. So I waited for that. By now over a year has passed and I still haven't been found what I want and I guess I have to believe it simply does not exist (yet?).

After the netgear WNDAP360 I looked around a bit more and came across Buffalo who have an interesting line-up. I looked at their dual band access points and routers and was dissapointed to find that their 1300mbps models don't support DD-WRT and neither do the 450mpbs models which means they never support vlans. But they do have a 300mbps model or two which seems nice enough. Then at one point I read a review on the WZR-HP-AG300H that concluded that it was basically the same hardware as a Netgear WNDR3800 but the netgear one is better. And now Buffalo also has a WZR-600DHP which sounds cool but since it's the successor to the one that got a "bad" review I have doubts it might not even be as good as the netgear model. So now I'm wondering, which is the best model for open-WRT? And do I actually want open DD-WRT because it seems overly complicated to buy a router, change the firmware just to get it to do what I want and subsequently lose all tech support. I don't want to end up like some people finding out it doesn't function properly or isn't stable be stuck with it.

Other devices I've looked at : Asus EA-N66, Ubiquiti UniFi AP , Netgear WNDR4500, Asus RT-AC66U, Linksys E4200.

I've looked at Cisco stuff but couldn't make heads nor tails from their product listing...all kinds of weird features I didn't recognize, I'm guessing proprietary.

All that just to say that I can't find a device that has :
Simultaneous dual band+vlan+snmp and doesn't have major flaws (like costing >400 or being part of some enterprise deployment bundle).

 

[thiggins]

"N600" (simultaneous dual-band with 300 Mbps maximum link rate) should do you just fine. 450 Mbps link rates are not supported on that many devices.

Did you see this?
ZyXEL NWA3560-N 802.11 a/b/g/n Dual-Radio Business AP Reviewed

 

[TempEC]

I was thinking the same thing, plus from what I read 450mpbs links are not that much faster in practice anyway?

And yes, I read your ZyXEL NWA3560-N article when you linked it but I think I decided it seemed a bit pricey... at least that's what I'm thinking now that I re-read it. I'd like something in the <200€ price range.

I also looked at the ESR600H and while it supports multiple guest networks I'm not sure if this is the same thing as multiple VLANs...

 

[thiggins]

If you want the features, you need to pay the price....

"Guest network" features typically use VLANs, but don't let you control tagging.

Have you investigated using DD-WRT or other distros to get the features you are looking for?

 

[TempEC]

Since I've stumbled across Buffalo I've been investigating the *WRT possibilities. As said in my previous post, I'm now trying to work out the question "which is the best model for *-WRT?", that is, to get good performance and good feature support.

It seems the buffalo wzr ag300h or something is popular but as quoted in my previous post, there's a netgear 3700 or 3800 which has pretty much exactly the same hardware.

From what I can find these are the most recent routers that are working well with open source firmware.

I'm a bit intimidated though, it seems dangerous to me to be able to control wireless broadcasting intensity etc, seems like it could damage the hardware, or the human near it. Also, I don't know anything about configuring a wifi antenna in such detail. I'd have to find a step by step guide.

 

[NXIL]

Future proof? That is not going to happen

Hi TempEC,

Future proof wireless? Not going to happen unless you are in poor health and, well, how to phrase this gracefully: the future is pretty much now.

I think you are stuck in this loop a bit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less

From what I see that Zyxel reviewed here that Tim mentioned has what you want:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...-n-80211-abgn-dual-radio-business-ap-reviewed

including price limit of less than $400.

However, if none of the commercial offerings has what you like, perhaps roll your own?

Netgate, Soekris, PC Engines; use software like mOnOwall or PF Sense

http://m0n0.ch/wall/hardware.php

http://www.pfsense.org/

OpenBSD on Soekris or maybe a supermicro mobo--add individual APs for the wireless bands you want; you said you are going to get a switch too--in my experience they are the one thing that always works--no reboots, no glitches, no firmware updates.

Note: with OpenBSD you'll be starting out with the exact opposite of Linksys's horrific CCC/KKK cloud computing nightmare--no hand holding from OpenBSD, but OpenBSD won't have its hand in your wallet or address book, etc.

As for IPv6:

Low-level equipment such as network adapters and network switches may not be affected by the change, since they transmit link-layer frames without inspecting the contents. However, networking devices that obtain IP addresses or perform routing of IP packets do need to understand IPv6.


But, at this point, reasonably priced IPv6 aware switches should be readily available.

So: if you like to tinker, and there is no "one" product that floats your boat, go modular--build what you want a piece at a time. The key for you seems to be very capable firmware, so, one of the distros above, or maybe a version of OpenWRT or DDWRT (that is well matched to the router) would work.

Oh: some routers in your price range that probably do all that you want:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833150129

Jeez:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122488

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833150128

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0AT09N5837

An Atom motherboard that you can use as the foundation of a roll-your-own system:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101332

Note: not so fond of Atom CPUs myself but, would be fine for a router.

Or: an inexpensive socket 1155 board, lower power CPU (will use less power than the atom, actually, but have oodles of processor power), add in a dual Intel ethernet card (for your WAN port and LAN port), then attach switch, and off switch (which you say you are getting anyway), your wireless APs.

Get a GB switch and all the machines in your house that are wired will be able to talk to each other at full speed.

This mobo actually works fine:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130639

You can find these CPUs even cheaper:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116409

DDR3 RAM is dirt cheap.

Small SSD for storage

Cheap case, Antec Basic power supply....

Intel dual NIC card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106015

Or a couple of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106033

Switch:

sorry, hundreds of these to sort through too....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...Price=&MaxPrice=&PropertyCodeValue=2549:15798

Anyway: seems that choosing firmware is key for you since you want to customize. Then choose hardware, and, is there is no "all in one" unit that floats your boat, go modular.

"More" future proof, since you can upgrade or swap out individual parts like the switch or access points.


HTH

 

[NXIL]

Build from scratch

http://store.netgate.com/

http://store.netgate.com/ALIX-Kits-C86.aspx

http://store.netgate.com/Gateworks-Systems-C89.aspx

If you want to do some tweaking:

http://soekris.com/products/net6501.html

Problem here is budget; but, Soekris is solid, and will last a very long time.

http://www.pacifier.com/~mmead/router/index.html

http://www.pcengines.ch/

I hear good things about Juniper, and they did not come up with "Cisco Cloud Connect"

http://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/wireless/ax-series/#literature

http://www.juniper.net/us/en/local/pdf/datasheets/1000300-en.pdf

There are real IT people here (not me!) who know about Juniper and its OS and whether it will do what you want.

GL!