Getting verizon fios and I have some router questions

[jamst149]

So I am getting verizon fios as we speak. They are installing MI424WR rev F which to my understanding act as both modem and router. In researching this I understand that this does not have gigabit ethernet. I have a wireless draft n router that I have been using with my comcast modem. I understand that I can set up a router as a wireless access point with my verizon modem. Unfortunately my old wireless N router also does not have gigabit ports.

So it would seem I'm gonna need a new router. Just not sure if I should get an expensive one.

If I get a new router will it be handling my WAN network or will the verizon one be doing the work? If the verizon one will be doing the work it would seem I shouldn't spend a bunch of money on a expensive router then?

I guess I'm just not sure if I want an expensive one like Netgear WNDR4500 ($170)? Or something cheaper if all I really need it for is the gigabit switch. Or do I even need a router? If I am not utilizing its WAN capabilities do I just need like a ethernet switch or something?

I guess I am really just not sure what I actually need.

My goal here is to set up the fastest possible wired network I can make for media streaming purposes.

 

[stevech]

assuming your net IP layer speed with FIOS is 100Mbps or less, and likely it is, you don't need a router with gigabit speeds. If you have multiple PCs all capable of gigabit ethernet, and all connected by wired/cat5 cables, and IF you frequently move gigaByte sized files, then you may want a gigabit LAN. To do this, simply get a $30 gigabit ethernet switch. Connect all fast PCs to it. Connect the switch to your router's LAN port.

If Verizon will, I'd ask them for a FIOS modem without router. Buy your own router. This allows you to manage your router config without being enslaved to Verizon.

Jargon: mbps = megabits per second; mBps = megabytes per second. 8 bits per byte.

 

[jamst149]

Let me be more clear (as I don't think I was).

So the included router (Actiontec MI424WR Rev F) is wireless G and does not have gigbit ethernet. I am trying to set up my network for the best speeds possible. I plan on having wired connections to my HDTV (Panasonic tc-p60st30) and my NAS (Buffalo Technology LinkStation Pro 1 TB) and Xbox and wireless to my laptop.

So I am trying to get 802.11n speeds for my laptop and the best speeds available for my wired devices.

edit: Anyway not sure if that changes your recomendations. As you can see I'm not so much concerned with multiple pc's. Just the laptop (wireless) and the wired devices (HDTV, NAS and xbox)

 

[Shikami]

Rev F is a good router. It is N, 10/100, and with a bigger NAT table. The only problem is that it is 10/100 and if you have compatible g/n mode you will only be able to do 65Mbps.

It is better to use the new revision Actiontec routers, and the only way to get the awesome revision G is of you were to get the highest tier FiOS. Honestly 10/100 will be fine for your devices, but peer to peer would be slow. Investing in a 1Gbp switch can be advisable.

 

[jamst149]

Yeah I plan on using utorrent on the nas. Also verizon confirmed (via install tech and 1-800) that the modem I got (Rev F) is 802.11g (not N). Then again maybe they have no idea what they are talking about (as most of thos techs never seem to).

 

[rhombus]

do I just need like a ethernet switch or something? My goal here is to set up the fastest possible wired network I can make for media streaming purposes.

Yes, you just need a gigabit switch.

 

[Shikami]

My parents have the very router with 802.11n support. I also have it. I do not use it but, I am very familair with its abilities. I am thinking that person did not know what they were talking about. The new Westell does not have 802.11n though. Perhaps, it was their mix-up?

http://www.actiontec.com/products/product.php?pid=213

Verizon FiOS Router (Rev F)
Model #: MI424WR (Rev F)
The Revision F version of the Wireless Broadband Router for Verizon FiOS, has been updated to include Wireless N and support for the MoCA 1.1 standard. This router also packs in more features and performance capabilities than any other fiber router on the market. It is the first device to feature a dual-core, 64-bit processor that allows it to support home networking and permits broadband TV (FiOS TV) and other content to be distributed to multiple devices in the home over coaxial cable. The router supports Ethernet and wireless networking as well.
Triple/Quad play powerhouse capable of delivering high throughput multimedia services for FTTH
Superior routing and networking capabilities
Industry's first dual-core 64-bit processor
Enterprise Level Security
ICSA Lab Certified
Customizable firewall
Stateful Packet Inspection
Denial of Service protection
Content Filtering/Parental Controls
Intrusion Detection
WPA and WEP WiFi encryption
Hardware-enabled QoS (Quality of Service)
8 input and 8 output channels
Frees up CPU for other bandwidth needs
TR-69+ Remote Management

 

[jamst149]

OK so just to be clear...I don't actually need a gigabit switch then? Just plug the TV/NAS/Xbox right into the actiontec router? This won't negatively affect performance on these devices.

 

[jamst149]

So before I made the switch from comcast I was running some speedtests. My results were very inconsistent but I was able to get up to 35Mb/s downloads. That was with a draft N router.

With verizon my results are much more consistent (almost exactly the smae every time) but I can't get above 21 Mb/s downloads and I have 35/35 internet. Is this likely due to the router?

Just wondering if I should be paying for 35/35 if I can't get the speed to match it.

Both cases were (if it wasn't obvious) using my laptop on my wireless network

 

[stevech]

using speedtest.net? Highly dependent on which server you choose to test with, time of day, phase of moon. I think you ran speed tests using WiFi on a laptop. To assess your ISP and not your WiFi, of course use a wired-connection PC. The max speed of 802.11g with an ideal signal strength and no competing neighbors' WiFi is about 24-28Mbps. Same for lower tiers of 11n.

Do you have modem+router all-in-one? If not, you can enable your PC's software firewall (windows?) and connect PC directly to Verizon modem. Then run speed tests to the proper/best server out there. See if speed improves. This assumes you have a PC with good speed.

Reference: I have Time Warner cable modem and a Cradlepoint router. Speedtest on the best server I can find near me shows 25-30Mbps down and 1Mbps up which is about what I pay for.

Marketing: Sometimes the ISP might market the raw bit rate of their service. Your net yield will be less due to overhead in TCP/IP which is about 10-15% (assuming tests were not done with WiFi of course). And... my ISP bursts faster rates for the first few seconds then drops back about 30%. This is a good thing for them- most Internet transfers are short (web pages) so bursting reduces the time your PC demands capacity from them. But for file transfers and the like, the lower speed gives the ISP a lower average load. I don't know if FIOS does this too.

 

[Shikami]

OK so just to be clear...I don't actually need a gigabit switch then? Just plug the TV/NAS/Xbox right into the actiontec router? This won't negatively affect performance on these devices.

The XBox is only 10/100, and the TV I am almost sure is 10/100. These two will be perfectly fine with their connections to the Actiontec switch. Even if the TV was 3 stream n capable I usually would rather have that connected via Ethernet than Wi-Fi. As for the NAS if it is only 10/100 then connecting to a gigabit switch will do nothing more for it. If it has a gigabit physical then by all means that should be used.

My results were very inconsistent but I was able to get up to 35Mb/s downloads. That was with a draft N router.

Results can be based on many factors. I personally use Speakeasy's speed test, and also ISP Geeks tests is good for it can show the flow of packets of the connection and its speed. Anyways, just because you did not manage the maximize a bandwidth test with a host does not mean that the bandwidth is not allocated to you. A router, NIC, processor, subsystem of the computers, etc all have an impact to networking. Even antivirus's can cause the bandwidth test to be askewed.

Just wondering if I should be paying for 35/35 if I can't get the speed to match it.

If you have a household of many users, then it can be worth having the bandwidth. With 35/35 the most important factor is that it is symmetrical in bandwidth. You would have around 4MB/s that the household can use; this is an excellent amount for a few users, and not much if any need to QoS your not-so-limited-egress bandwidth. That is the main reason for QoS. It is for the bandwidth limited, over used network, etc. After all, the only real solution to bandwidth issues is more bandwidth-if the network is optimally configured off course.

One thing to remember too, Comcast has Powerburst, is based on DOCSIS networking model, which in version 3 is much better with multiple users on a node than previous versions, and even your coax installation can have an affect on your networking performance. There are so many factors to networking. But once these are considered it is easy to find a problem if one arises, and performance will be exemplar.

 

[jamst149]

The NAS appears to have gigabit ethernet. (Data Transfer Rates 10 / 100 / 1000 Mbps). And yes the TV is 10/100. So just grab a cheap gigabit ethernet switch and hookup my NAS to it then right? The xbox and tv can go right to the router via ethernet cable.

Still not entirely sure whether I need 35/35 internet from verizon. Main reason I went with it was I though it would help bittorrent speeds. No other computers but mine are on the network. And when the NAS comes today it has a built in bitorrent client and I am gonna start using that to host my bittorrent client.

 

[rhombus]

Yes, you just need a gigabit switch.

OK so just to be clear...I don't actually need a gigabit switch then?

To achieve your goal, you need a gigabit switch.

Connect one LAN port of your router and ALL your wired devices to the switch.

 

[jamst149]

Either of these look ok?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0043SUY0Q/?tag=snbforums-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003X7TRWO/?tag=snbforums-20

 

[stevech]

I would not put my own money on either of those two based on brand names.
Have you shopped Newegg.com? The best, I say.

Netgear usually makes good switches if not good WiFi. It's their roots.

I did take a chance and bought two store-brand Fry's 5 port gigE switches - cheap! Many months later, both are fine. Not so the D-Link and Linksys gigE switches I bought which both had heat problems and self-destructed in short order. Some of all this is solved by later generation chips in these products that run much cooler. The netgear failed with bulging capacitors - a sure sign of buying components on the cheap with no Q/A.

I do also have a gen-2 Netgear 5 port gigE that's been fine for a long time. But it is needlessly big.

We consumers just get a small sample of a product's run. Sometimes we fault the whole vendor or product family based on a sample of 1. But some failures are inexcusable - such as way-hot chips, bulging capacitors (all), and the like.

 

[rhombus]

Asus, Trendnet, Zyxel, TP-Link, D-Link - take your pick of these $30 8-port switches.

They will all perform the same in your network.*
They all have power-saving, and therefore run impressively cool.
They all have manufacturer's warranty.
The Asus has one VIP port out of the 8 which might come in really handy one day, or might just confuse you silly.

(*In the real world, no wired hardware choice - router, switch, ethernet card - is going to slow down 35Mbps from a modem to a single computer, either.)

 

[jamst149]

Just looking for some clarification/understanding.

So if my router is limited to 10/100 what is the purpose of adding a gigabit switch? My understanding (which could very well be wrong) is that if the router is only 10/100 then adding a gigabit switch would still limit the speed to 10/100.

So am I effectively just adding more ports to my router (at 10/100 speed)??

Againt not trying to question the suggestions people have offered (that I should inf act grab a gigabit switch) just trying to know/understand the why behind it. Kinda new to a lot of this networking mumbo jumbo

 

[jamst149]

So I may be wrapping my head around this a bit more. My initial goal was to increase speeds (meaning downloading faster and quicker webpage browsing) on y network. Now I realize that by adding a gigabit switch this will NOT in fact increase those speeds as I am limited by my router being 10/100.

So OK. I think I understand that concept now.

So then on to the gigabit switch. So in theory with my NAS having gigabit capabilities anything I connect to the NAS could achieve gigabit transfer rates (assuming the other devices attached also were gigabit capable)??

So here is where I am still left with a but of a misunderstanding. If the NAS is the only device I have connected to the gigabit ethernet switch (that is actually gigabit capable)...what is the point of it? I will be connecting the NAS (gigabit), xbox (10/100) and panasonic viera hdtv (10/100) none of which are gigabit capable devices.

 

[stevech]

The only benefit of gigabit LANs (1,000Mbps) in a home LAN is PC-to-PC or NAS/PC transfers since your ISP and moreover, Internet hosts you use, do not sustain close to 100Mbps.

Some might argue that top of the line WiFi with fast PCs and short range can exceed 100Mps. But usually, the WiFi client device, because it is wireless, is a portable and these are not speedy. There are a few exceptions that apply to a very few consumers.

I have several gigabit switches around my house. Only two PCs can actually get over 100Mbps in my home. My streaming video, WiFi clients, and many wired devices in my house need far less that 100Mbps.

Last comment: If you need more LAN ports, may as well buy gigabit switches since their cost is just a hair above 10/100BT switches.

 

[Shikami]

http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DGS-100.../ref=pd_cp_e_2

I like the DLink because, mainly aesthetics. They are both green switches and can lower power usage, so are basically equal; but the Trendnet is plain ugly. Fanless is a rule that I go by, but most SOHO switches will be this way now due to better processes and technologies.

Now, the caveat for the gigabit networking. Most do not achieve the possibly 120MB/s due to the fact that the hard drive (and subsystems) itself cannot sustain the throughput. However, reading and writing around and above 50MB/s is very nice, especially when it is a large file (if capable giving an average example of modern system speed). There is minimal loss due to TCP, so it is not to blame.

The 1Gb switch has to be connected to the 10/100 switch of the router. The 10/100 integral switch of the router can only communicate at a maximum 100Mbp/s, but is not the limitation. Due to the nature of switches the hosts will transfer to the exact host that the connection was created for. So, any 1Gb capable host will communicate with only that 1Gb host or 10/100 host.

You will not gain any speeds with your limited allocation by your provider because of the gigabit switch. Networking also "controls" itself to be managed into the state that is necessary for the transfers and receiving of packets. For example, if jumbo packets are enabled the PMTU will change the packets to the maximum size to transfer out of the personal network. It can control when a host receives packets, it can know when it needs to retransmit them due to error, etc.

The XBox and the TV do not need to use gigabit bandwidth. The bandwidth necessary for the abilities of these devices do not and obviously cannot go over 100Mb which is around 12MB/s.

I also do not think, although it can possibly be altruistic of you, that the cost for 35/35 is justifiable if you are to mainly use it for torrents. If you are planning to be using a possible maximum amount of bandwidth I would actually recommend to use QoS in this case, or to limit the allocation that is used for it.