Help Trying to setup network for home

[Kiriti]

I am trying to setup a new Home network and would need some help,

The Equipment:
A Ubiquiti EdgeRouterLite as the Internet Gateway
A TP-Link TL-SG1024 as the Switch connected to the Home server(Ubuntu Server running the controller among other things)
I have a 3 Pack UniFi APs.

The Site:
Please See the Attached Floor Plans,
The darker shaded region is the primary targeted coverage area.
The lighter shaded area is secondary targeted coverage areas.
The Unshaded regions are more like meh, I'll take what I get.
I was hoping to throw in the 2 Unifi APs to cover the entire Home and beyond.
I don't mind throwing in the 3rd one if there is a benefit since I already have it

The Clients:
Currently have 10 devices but targeting to support at least 30 clients some floating around while some stationary such as Chromecast, TVs

The Setup:
I have the ERL set up with Eth0 as WAN, Eth1 as LAN & Eth2 as DMZ.

I have the WAPs currently in the dead Corners (I agree, its against logic) but WAF had a lot of influence as the cables needed to be run outside the house in a conduit and the cable installer needed to have it within 1 feet of the wall where he could make a hole large enough to get his drill through and make way for cable from outside) The hole is currently hidden by mounting UAP as a cover!
I setup both of them on Default WLAN Group, Auto TX (23 dBm (EIRP)), Same SSID & Security. With 1 on channel 1 and the other on channel 11 like you would with a multi AP setup.
I noticed that my Mobile devices would mostly have a Signal Strength average of about -70 dBm as they were sticky to the AP on the opposite end of the House. Further more non-mobile devices like my Chromecast in great room which is clear line of sight to the AP in kitchen tries to connect to the AP on the other end!

I turned to ZH feature and decided to make it a single channel setup. So I create a new WLAN Group, Pick the least noisy channel (11) available.

Upon completing setup, I am currently stuck with these issues:
1 - The Device signal strength was still not that great. I would have An decent -65/-50 dBm at a moment when in the same room with AP and then fall to -80dBm as soon as I walk to a next room.
2 - I see the Devices keep hopping between the two access points frantically despite of sitting right next to one of the APs in the same room.

What I have tried so far -
Usually when the devices seem to have bad signal despite of the fact that they are within the range of an AP, the culprit is interference on the channel.
I have changed it and tried it on various channels - 1, 3, 6, 9. Did not help much.

I tried to change the TX power on the radios suspecting it was too much signal that was causing the problems, I tried going down from 23 dBm to custom (15, 14, 12, 10). The Problem being when I go down to lower TX powers, the signal strength shows always very low on the devices even close to the Access Point (constantly at -80/-70 dBm).

I still see the devices hoping around. which now makes sense as the device sees weak signal and that is what you would want it to do anyways when the signal strength is low.

I tried to turn off the WLAN on one of the corner APs, and the signal strength in the opposite end of the home.

I would have loved to avoid repositioning due to the hole in the ceiling, but if that is the culprit, I wouldn't mind doing that.

Any suggestions, recommendations or help is greatly appreciated.

 

[stevech]

- I see the Devices keep hopping between the two access points frantically despite of sitting right next to one of the APs in the same room.

The only think I can suggest is don't use the same SSID everywhere. Use a different SSID on each access point. Then the human user of a handheld can choose and AP as its SSID is a hint, like "XYZ-OFFICE" where XYZ is your initials.

In consumer WiFi, some few client devices have soft/firmware that does a proper Access Point selection re-selection algorithm. Pro systems have this but it's system-directed in a manged AP concept and those are all propreitary. Too band IEEE and the WiFi alliance haven't fixed the standards after all this time..

 

[Scooterit]

Here is my 2 cents

• Stick with one SSID.
• Lower the power and carefully choose the channels
• If you can use 5Ghz to "contain" the signal in a room

The stickiness is mostly a problem of portable devices like smartphones and tablets that are programmed to hold on to a signal as long as possible. The only way to make them jump on the stronger signal is to turn the Wifi on/off or let the device go to sleep.

 

[stevech]

My suggestion of unique SSID per AP is based on my experiences, and others here as this has been debated.
The root cause is that some/many handhelds choose first-heard AP rather than best signal, at startup.

Hence, a human in the loop is the only sure fire solution in controller-less WiFi. Or you're lucky enough to have all client devices that do best-signal.

 

[azazel1024]

My suggestion of unique SSID per AP is based on my experiences, and others here as this has been debated.
The root cause is that some/many handhelds choose first-heard AP rather than best signal, at startup.

Hence, a human in the loop is the only sure fire solution in controller-less WiFi. Or you're lucky enough to have all client devices that do best-signal.

The only issue with this is that in general, most client devices will not roam between access points if you use different SSIDs. They treat it as a different network. The only time I've seen roaming with different SSIDs is either at the direction of the user, or when the signal strength becomes so weak as to effectively disconnect the device.

Windows is slightly different as you can tell the adapter to look for other networks to connect to, in which case roaming works a little more properly if you have unique SSIDs between the access points.

I thought Ubiquity had zero hand-off here? I've never touched their stuff, but it sounds like an issue in configuration of this.

For signal strength, how are the APs positioned in terms of orientation? -50 to -65dBm is a very weak signal strength in the same room. Now, probably slightly higher gain antennas, but line of site with my access point outside, I have to be standing around 15ft away to get -52dBm of signal strength and I have to be around 80ft away to get -64dBm of signal strength.

Within my house, if I am in the same room as my AP, about 15ft away (furthest I can stand and still be in the same room) my signal strength is around -48dBm (its a slightly better AP inside than outside).

Can you try repositing the APs to change their orientation 90 degrees, so if flat on the wall, change it so that they are flat on the ceiling? Maybe change from auto Tx to maximum transmit power?

 

[abailey]

I agree with azazel1024 in that your signal strength is very low. I can't figure out why, especially in the same room. My house is not huge but it is 2 stories, 3000sq feet total. I have one Ubiquiti AP upstairs at the far end of my house (in the office above the garage). I have it mounted high on a wall. Downstairs at the opposite end of my house I get signal strength of -55db (2.4ghz band). In the same room I get around -40db. In the same room you should get very good signal. I use all the default settings on my AP's (except channel selection). Maybe you should set yours back to the default settings and try again. Try to reposition your AP's. I know you have wire run to them through the walls, but try to take them down and just for a test, connect them up with an Ethernet wire and see what you get. I had mine sitting on top of a TV for months before I mounted it on the wall and I still got decent signal downstairs. I also get decent signal in my back yard from the same AP.

 

[Kiriti]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions guys. My apologies for the delay in response.

1. - unique SSID per AP - The Router/AP separation Idea was to not have to go separate SSIDs and Visible disconnect/ connect route.Also given that I will already have 2 distinct SSIDs ( Guest & Private) did not want to have multiple SSIDs. I would still try to stay on single SSID with the ZH unless I absolutely have to

Lower the power and carefully choose the channels - I tested this yesterday again, Set teh Second floor bedroom radio to off. tested the other AP to see what kind of a signal I get. I seem to have the same issues of weaker signal in some areas while when in close/line of sight I seem to have about -50dBm. I am testing this on Android though using the WiFi analyzer App, will have to see if the issue is with the phone or the App.

Also looks like re positioning the AP is needed, I tried walking in the corner of great room and the signal seemed to fade drastically, this was on 2.4GHz band. as the signal seems to have to penetrate the shelf right next to the AP, The exterior wall dividing the great room from the patio for line of sight.

will get back to you once I re-position/test the APs.

Thanks again guys

 

[azazel1024]

Exterior walls are killers for signal strength, even if you don't have aluminum siding, but especially if you do.

Perk of a 1960's rancher for me, its a big rectangle. Downside is 4ft thick masonry fireplace cutting 1/3rd of my house off from the rest (effectively)

 

[fistv]

Exterior walls are killers for signal strength, even if you don't have aluminum siding, but especially if you do.

Perk of a 1960's rancher for me, its a big rectangle. Downside is 4ft thick masonry fireplace cutting 1/3rd of my house off from the rest (effectively)

Don't feel bad, my house is essentially a two story faraday cage, they used aluminum covered foam sheets over the sheathing, tyvec next and siding over the that.

 

[azazel1024]

Yeah, that is my old townhouse.

My current house just has aluminum siding over most of it, with cedar siding under that (they never removed it, just sided right over it) or brick where there isn't siding. I've been replacing it with vinyl siding and replacing the cedar siding with 1" foamboard.

Still kind of RF opaque, but like 7-8dBm less signal attenuation from what I have been finding.

That aluminum really just thrashes the signal. Which doesn't matter too much to me because I have an outdoor AP :-D

 

[Scooterit]

My experience is that it doesn't make a difference for the device what name the SSID has other than the user knows what AP the device is connected to. The end result is still that the device has to be "poked" to move to a better AP.

Seeing the different SSID's might be helpful for the person who enjoys this (us ;-) but for the average user its an annoyance..

They still have to turn wifi on/off or wait a long time (sleep mode) to make the WiFi in their computer / smartphone / tablet search for a new signal.

 

[azazel1024]

I don't have any devices, iOS, android or windows that have to be "poked" to switch access points if the SSID is the same across my access points.

If all of you access points are fairly similar signal strength, sure, but not if you have a rather different signal strength across your physical network.

No issues roaming or sticky client business.

Different SSIDs and clients will not switch unless I lose the signal from one of the APs or I manually switch.

 

[sfx2000]

The only think I can suggest is don't use the same SSID everywhere. Use a different SSID on each access point. Then the human user of a handheld can choose and AP as its SSID is a hint, like "XYZ-OFFICE" where XYZ is your initials.

In consumer WiFi, some few client devices have soft/firmware that does a proper Access Point selection re-selection algorithm. Pro systems have this but it's system-directed in a manged AP concept and those are all propreitary. Too band IEEE and the WiFi alliance haven't fixed the standards after all this time..

In a multiple AP environment - Common SSID and WPA keys - most modern clients (Win7, OS X 10.6, Android 4.x, IOS 6) are fairly savvy about picking the right AP and band class.

Having Unique SSID's per AP means that the user must manually intervene and choose an AP.

Linux might still have some issues based on distro and client chipsets... but they're getting better about it.

sfx