Home Network Upgrade with RT-BE88U (Merlin) & AX-58U as AiMesh Node - Inputs ?

[wrink]

Point was with 1 Gbps WAN port on router, you're unlikely to achieve anywhere near 1 Gbps at router, at least not with Spectrum cable.

Got it. I have to live with Comcast. Don't expect anything better, perhaps worse.

 

[Tech9]

Point was with 1 Gbps WAN port on router, you're unlikely to achieve anywhere near 1 Gbps at router, at least not with Spectrum cable.

Haven't run RT-AX86U with this ISP yet. Run a quick test only with 2.5GbE port device to check if there is overprovisioning, found the line is speed capped. I use 4-core x86 firewall and it maxes out the Gigabit WAN port with the same services running as when the line was 500/30. Latency is exactly the same (still the same Cable), the difference is I'm getting 700-850Mbps to AX clients now. The ISP came 50% cheaper, the only reason to change. I have 3x residential lines 100/40, 300/50 and 1000/50 and every day user experience with what we use Internet for is about the same.

I have to live with Comcast

300/100 is perfect. Don't overpay for services. If higher speed comes cheaper - sure.

 

[wrink]

Sounds like I shouldn't expect much from a RT-BE88U upgrade, but wanted to run one final thought:

Would it help any with Wireless backhaul for AiMesh, if I were to use the RT-BE88U as main router, and the AX58U as the satellite node (instead of using the RP-AX56) ? Especially for streaming video files from my NAS, the wireless AiMesh is proving to be a stuttering mess most times - so can that be improved some with a RT-BE88U + AX58U combo ? Or is that an unknown, and if so, I can try experimenting and finding out when I can get hold of a RT-BE88U around black Friday or so.

The above question/hope is based on the fact that the AX58U as a node would be able to utilize 160 MHz in 2x2 AX streams, while the RP-AX56 is limited to 80 MHz...

One thing that will surely improve is the Wireguard VPN, so if the wireless backhaul can improve at least theoretically - then a RT-BE88U is worth at least a trial buy to figure out if its worth the dough for the NAS-streaming.

 

[visortgw]

Sounds like I shouldn't expect much from a RT-BE88U upgrade, but wanted to run one final thought:

Would it help any with Wireless backhaul for AiMesh, if I were to use the RT-BE88U as main router, and the AX58U as the satellite node (instead of using the RP-AX56) ? Especially for streaming video files from my NAS, the wireless AiMesh is proving to be a stuttering mess most times - so can that be improved some with a RT-BE88U + AX58U combo ? Or is that an unknown, and if so, I can try experimenting and finding out when I can get hold of a RT-BE88U around black Friday or so.

The above question/hope is based on the fact that the AX58U as a node would be able to utilize 160 MHz in 2x2 AX streams, while the RP-AX56 is limited to 80 MHz...

One thing that will surely improve is the Wireguard VPN, so if the wireless backhaul can improve at least theoretically - then a RT-BE88U is worth at least a trial buy to figure out if its worth the dough for the NAS-streaming.

Yes, 5 GHz/160 MHz backhaul is definitely a plus if you must use wifi connection. Also, consider moving to 2.5 Mbps connection on NAS. I have moved to 2.5 Gbps USB NICs (Realtek) on two Synology DS718+ NASs with open source drivers.

 

[Tech9]

The above question/hope is based on the fact that the AX58U as a node would be able to utilize 160 MHz in 2x2 AX streams, while the RP-AX56 is limited to 80 MHz...

This will make your Wi-Fi dependent on hard to predict external factors. It needs DFS range channels and your main router will cut the channel width back to 80MHz on radar detection. Also 160MHz wide channel has reduced range and the SNR to the node will be worse. Posted specs vs reality again.

I can get hold of a RT-BE88U around black Friday or so.

You really want to spend some money on new toys. What about 2x RT-BE88U for shared Wi-Fi 7 wireless backhaul? Or better 2x GT-BE98 Pro for dedicated Wi-Fi 7 wireless backhaul! You guys are going to have one band available per user and everyone should be happy with any type of video streaming.

 

[rung]

This will make your Wi-Fi dependent on hard to predict external factors. It needs DFS range channels and your main router will cut the channel width back to 80MHz on radar detection. Also 160MHz wide channel has reduced range and the SNR to the node will be worse. Posted specs vs reality again.

I can't figure out why this is so bad. Worst case, the backhaul temporarily drops back to the settings you say are superior, 80Mhz. Best case, better performance 90% of the time.

 

[Tech9]

Depends on the channels selection, region, environment factors. If both control and extension channels are in DFS the Wi-Fi radio will cut off completely. Channel 50 (36-64) is fine, but in many regions with reduced power. Channel 114 (100-128) usually allows higher power, but will cut off since it's all DFS. Channel 163 (149-177) is not available in many regions and no client device supports it. So yes, higher performance is possible, but many factors in play and not guaranteed to work. May work today and stop tomorrow.

 

[rung]

Depends on the channels selection, region, environment factors. If both control and extension channels are in DFS the Wi-Fi radio will cut off completely. Channel 50 (36-64) is fine, but in many regions with reduced power. Channel 114 (100-128) usually allows higher power, but will cut off since it's all DFS. Channel 163 (149-177) is not available in many regions and no client device supports it. So yes, higher performance is possible, but many factors in play and not guaranteed to work. May work today and stop tomorrow.

I thought we were specifically talking about chanel 36, 160Mhz. If there is a dfs issue, it just drops down to 36, 80Mhz. Your response seems to discuss other configurations that would be more problematic, not the advantage of using 4x streams @ 160Mhz on channel 36 as a backhaul channel. As I stated above, I see no drawback for that. What am I missing?

 

[visortgw]

I know that i have an RT-AX68U in the "spare" box at home, but I don't know if I still have an RT-AX58U as well -- I will check when I return home tomorrow evening. Either way, I will temporarily configure one or both as AiMesh nodes attached to my GT-BE98 Pro to determine compatibility and report back for benefit of all.

So... I checked when I got home this evening. I still have an RT-AX68U, but all of my RT-AX58U have been put to use elsewhere for friends, family, ... The RT-AX68U is a "lesser" device than the RT-AX58U since it does not support 5 GHz/160 MHz wifi. I WPS reset the RT-AX68U, and I installed the "latest" Asus firmware, v3.0.0.4.388_24646, dated 2024/02/26 — yes, @Tech9, it's from February of this year, and the device has hit EOL designation, but... I added the RT-AX68U as an AiMesh node to my GT-BE98 Pro using 1 Gbps wired backhaul. I was able to add my two IoT VLANs — one 2.4 GHz and one 5 GHz — to the RT-AX68U, and devices connected using the proper VLANs, Ip address ranges, and isolation. The screenshot shows the connected devices:

I rebooted the RT-AX68U with the WAN cable disconnected, and the AiMesh node connected using 5 GHz backhaul. The two devices in the screenshot above (temporarily bound to the RT-AX68U) reconnected the same way as with wired backhaul.

I'm convinced the RT-AX58U would do the same, but even better!

 

[visortgw]

@Tech9, should I try RT-AC68U or RT-AC86U at some point when I have time? I still have at least one of each...

 

[Tech9]

should I try RT-AC68U or RT-AC86U at some point when I have time?

Yes, please. Both are still popular around devices. Thank you!

 

[visortgw]

@Tech9, should I try RT-AC68U or RT-AC86U at some point when I have time? I still have at least one of each...

RT-AC86U appears to work as well (running Asus 3.0.0.4_386_51925, dated 2024/03/29) with the exception that it does not support WPA3 (typically I set primary network to use WPA3 and IoT/guest VLANs to use WPA2/WPA3). I'm done for now...

 

[Tech9]

By the way, what IoT device on 2.4GHz can potentially use WPA3?

 

[visortgw]

By the way, what IoT device on 2.4GHz can potentially use WPA3?

None that I've verified so far...

 

[wrink]

You really want to spend some money on new toys. What about 2x RT-BE88U for shared Wi-Fi 7 wireless backhaul? Or better 2x GT-BE98 Pro for dedicated Wi-Fi 7 wireless backhaul! You guys are going to have one band available per user and everyone should be happy with any type of video streaming.

I thought we were specifically talking about chanel 36, 160Mhz. If there is a dfs issue, it just drops down to 36, 80Mhz. Your response seems to discuss other configurations that would be more problematic, not the advantage of using 4x streams @ 160Mhz on channel 36 as a backhaul channel. As I stated above, I see no drawback for that. What am I missing?

Yes, I'm adventurous enough to experiment in a measured manner, so long I have some RoI with the experimentation - here that's improved bandwidth from backhaul.

Sounds like there is some value in digging - yes, Channel 36 is among the most uncrowded channels in my neighborhood - believe it or not - so I would love to eke out some gains if I can with the backhaul at 160 MHz as @rung indicated. And I live far enough (10+ miles) from the nearest airport too.

To be honest, I would not want to do this just for spending money, and really reluctant to splurge on 2 BE88U's or similar - incremental improvement is what I'm seeking.

Sounds like, at the very least - this is a stimulating conversation indeed, very interesting !

 

[jksmurf]

So... I checked when I got home this evening. I still have an RT-AX68U, but all of my RT-AX58U have been put to use elsewhere for friends, family, ... The RT-AX68U is a "lesser" device than the RT-AX58U since it does not support 5 GHz/160 MHz wifi. I WPS reset the RT-AX68U, and I installed the "latest" Asus firmware, v3.0.0.4.388_24646, dated 2024/02/26 — yes, @Tech9, it's from February of this year, and the device has hit EOL designation, but... I added the RT-AX68U as an AiMesh node to my GT-BE98 Pro using 1 Gbps wired backhaul. I was able to add my two IoT VLANs — one 2.4 GHz and one 5 GHz — to the RT-AX68U, and devices connected using the proper VLANs, Ip address ranges, and isolation. The screenshot shows the connected devices:

View attachment 61938​

I rebooted the RT-AX68U with the WAN cable disconnected, and the AiMesh node connected using 5 GHz backhaul. The two devices in the screenshot above (temporarily bound to the RT-AX68U) reconnected the same way as with wired backhaul.

I'm convinced the RT-AX58U would do the same, but even better!

This is pretty exciting stuff. Keep it coming .

We know it works with the GT-BE98 Pro as the main Router, I would be keen to see if the same is true for RT-AX86U Pro running 3006, with VLANs.

Would certainly keep my IoT Devices (at various ends of the house away from the main router but close to some mesh nodes) off the main (or Guest Wifi 1) SSIDs, be nice to manage with the mesh satellites.

 

[Tech9]

I would be keen to see if the same is true for RT-AX86U Pro running 3006

Seems like the interest in Pro features is low because many folks around have RT-AX86/88U Pro and something older/mixed available for testing.

 

[jksmurf]

Seems like the interest in Pro features is low because many folks around have RT-AX86/88U Pro and something older/mixed available for testing.

Understood, but surely if the RT-AX86U (RT-AX88U Pro) main units work with 3006 created VLANs that worked by propogating the VLANs to the non-Pro units like the RT-AX68U (or in my case RT-AX58U or even XD6) then that makes these units quite desirable as they are relatively cheap (and existing, for those that have them).

 

[visortgw]

Yes, I'm adventurous enough to experiment in a measured manner, so long I have some RoI with the experimentation - here that's improved bandwidth from backhaul.

Sounds like there is some value in digging - yes, Channel 36 is among the most uncrowded channels in my neighborhood - believe it or not - so I would love to eke out some gains if I can with the backhaul at 160 MHz as @rung indicated. And I live far enough (10+ miles) from the nearest airport too.

To be honest, I would not want to do this just for spending money, and really reluctant to splurge on 2 BE88U's or similar - incremental improvement is what I'm seeking.

Sounds like, at the very least - this is a stimulating conversation indeed, very interesting !

One other thing to consider... If you have unused coax cable running through your house, you could potentially use MoCA between router and AiMesh nodes. Currently, there are 2.5 Gbps devices available.

 

[wrink]

One other thing to consider... If you have unused coax cable running through your house, you could potentially use MoCA between router and AiMesh nodes. Currently, there are 2.5 Gbps devices available.

Yes, have coax cables, however, I have been suspect about signal interference with my cable internet, since its a 50 year-old house. Have you had good experience and does the intranetwork work fine when you have cable internet signal running in/into your home ? Any recommendations for MoCa adapters for only up to Gigabit Moca (won't need 2.5 Gbps, 1 Gbps would work fine for me). TIA.