hybrid NAS/DAS?

[colinb]

Newbie here.

The thing I think I would like to buy doesn't seem to exist, or at least when I search for "hybrid NAS DAS" I only see one product from a company I've never heard of which makes me nervous. So, let me explain what I think I want, and you kind folks can explain why I'm delusional...

I would like a box of disk that stores my photo RAW files and which has a fast connection to my computer for editing with Lightroom. I think that the performance requirements here are such that I'll be happier with USB3.0/Thunderbolt/Firewire etc.

I would like a box of disk that is accessible throughout my house, and perhaps even outside my house via suitable fire walling. It would store documents that are infrequently accessed, and don't require enormous speed.

Neither box would be used for backups, and indeed both boxes would be backed up onto a pair of USB drives only one of which would be in the house at any given time.

I would like it if one box could do both things. I.e. it could sit on my desk and offer USB3.0/Thunderbolt/Firewire connectivity to my computer when I'm working at my desk, and that it had a GigE connection to my home network for access elsewhere.

I haven't found such a device from a well known name. All the NAS boxes I've looked at seem to assume that their USB ports will only be used to attach external storage for backup purposes. None of the RAID DAS boxes I've looked at have a network port.

One thing that had occurred to me was to get a small NAS and a large external DAS. Use the DAS directly when I'm at my desk, and plug it into the NAS before I leave. That seems fiddly.

Do I want the wrong thing?

Thanks for your help

c

 

[L&LD]

You may want the wrong thing.

Don't count on USB 3.0 for Lightroom work with raw files, not nearly fast enough.

Don't count on a NAS for Lightroom work with any type of image file connected over the network (there are workarounds, but they are kludges, not recommended).

Firewire - can't depend on this being available going forward and not worth buying into today.

Thunderbolt - technically possible, but many stories of devices not playing nice (too new, still).


The best is to use an SSD to manipulate the images you're currently working on (i.e. small batches).

Use a NAS as storage (backing it up as you've suggested already).

Use a DAS with SSD's ($$$$) if you really need more capacity than you can have in a single computer, but only consider the Thunderbolt port option even then.


Is the computer a desktop or a laptop? If a desktop, I would simply put as many hard drives as you can get away with considering the number of drive bays and the number of SATA ports your motherboard has.

 

[sinshiva]

to help clarify what you want; what you're looking for is something like a NAS that has switchable USB modes, of which i have no recommendations to offer, i'm afraid. maybe it's possible that this could be done with well known NASes with a fair amount of hacking and things like kernel support, etc.

usually devices are set to either be in 'usb host mode' or whatever the equivalent of usb client mode might be called. i only know a bit about this because i was watching some android hackers trying to get usb host mode working on my epic4g; something many of the newest android devices are capable of now with a USB OTG adapter. they eventually succeeded, but it's quirky and unmaintained, afaik.

i know that for a windows to windows link over USB, you need that 'easy-transfer' cable, dunno what kind of sorcery is in that thing.

sorry, not familiar with NAS devices. what you're looking for seems reasonable to me, though. i'll be interested in seeing what recommendations people have to offer you

 

[Dennis Wood]

A few questions (we use Lightroom local as well as networked)

1. How many workstations and what OS?
2. How much disk space are you looking for?
3. Budget?

 

[colinb]

Hi Folks. Thanks for your responses.

Dennis, I should be clearer about my requirements and usage patterns. I'm an amateur photographer with one laptop, and a monitor and printer in a bedroom. So, no need to support multiple workstations. I use a Macbook Pro. It has an SSD, but space is limited. I think I can fit all the data I have in mind in <1TB right now but I anticipate that changing within a year so I want to plan for 2 or 3 TB; both well within the bounds of current spinning oxide disks. I have yet to make a penny from stock options so budget constraints mean I won't be filling a RAID box with SSDs just yet...

Sinshiva, you understand my request correctly, and it sounds like I'm asking for too much right now.

L&LD, yep too much too soon. I'm discouraged by what you have to say about even USB3.0 being too slow for use with Lightroom. My experience with Thunderbolt has been mixed. At work I use a t'bolt device for backup [which is overkill but there's history involved]. The only problem I've seen with it is to do with daisy chaining through my external monitor. Sometimes when I connect the laptop in the morning, it doesn't detect the drive until I pull the drive's power and reconnect. But once the computer has noticed the drive's existence, it has performed flawlessly.

I'm actually quite surprised that a hybrid of this type isn't already common. I wonder what the technical hurdles are. If I understand Sinshiva correctly, it isn't easy to configure a USB port as both a controller and a target [or whatever the correct nomenclature is - my names date back to SCSI, DSSI, and HBS], so I suppose my theoretical hybrid would need one USB as uplink and another as downlink - but since my monitor has that I know it is possible on a relatively cheap device. CPUs with enough power are commonly used on the NASs reviewed elsewhere on this sight. If any manufacturers are looking for a beta tester for what I've described - please think of me!

c

 

[L&LD]

Your best bang for the buck will be something like this.

http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00A0XPNEK/?tag=smallncom-20

At least 4 drives, eSATA (USB3.0 may be good enough with 4 disks) and at this price, I don't think you'll find Thunderbolt connectivity.

Notice I am picking the 3.5" hard drive model. For a reason; they are faster.

Bigger, noisier and heavier. But faster. The Hitachi drives Dennis Wood tested would be my choice (sorry, can't search for them now).

The 2.5" drive based external enclosures are comparatively underpowered - especially for Lightroom duties.

I have gone down this road. You need a desktop with as many drive bays as you can afford. The external thing is only going to suck money from you and leave you wanting, much more for Lightroom performance.

 

[sinshiva]

regarding dennis' hitachi drives, they were 500gb (or greater, havent kept up with hdds) per platter. you need that kind of density for the higher throughput, but also dennis was using them all in raid0.

back when i was playing with them, they were of the first generation 500gb per platter harddrives and their only real competition were the samsung f3's. so, i'd recommend either samsung or hitachi for this sort of thing.

when i got my hitachis, they were around $50 per, x4 in raid0 meant $200 for 2tb capable of hitting 500mb/s throughput. take that, SSDs!

(of course, that bandwidth was mostly seen on the first 400gb)

 

[Dennis Wood]

Given your situation today, I'd be inclined to purchase a 1TB SSD, and upgrade your MacBook (a quick google search tells me you can do this outside of "Apple" specific components). Purchase an inexpensive 2 bay NAS, and just copy the files there for backup/remote access.

My guess is that your laptop travels with you

This NAS/SSD approach addresses your backup issues, as well as remote access to the files. QNAP's photo viewer (runs from the NAS) does a good job with RAW files, and therefore would allow you to pull files/preview etc. from anywhere via remote access. QNAP's NAS photo app is the only one that allows you to view RAW files natively, but in preview mode so is usable over WAN connections.

Samsung's EVO 1TB is wicked quick..I have the 500GB version running with "Rapid" enabled and it is crazy fast. Very hard to beat that if you're looking for snappy performance with <25MB RAW files.

 

[stevech]

Given your situation today, I'd be inclined to purchase a 1TB SSD

I'd like a 1TB SSD, if I had some of Bill Gates' fortune.

 

[sinshiva]

I'd like a 1TB SSD, if I had some of Bill Gates' fortune.

with that, you could buy at least two