Is the Netgear R7000 really as bad as people here make it seem?

[shawn3090]

I am redoing a network for my small business. We currently have a DSL router/modem, and the wireless only reaches about half of the store, although it is behind some aluminum sheets and a mess of coax cable (probably 500 feet of it coiled up right there). The ethernet is currently 10/100, and I am replacing it with gigabit (lots of file transfers).

Currently planning to buy the R7000 and placing it in a better location so that the 5 GHz can reach most of the building (max ~75 feet from where I am placing it). The 11ac WILL be used, as we have several wireless clients that can use it and are throttled by our current wireless. Will it be able to do basic wireless/ethernet (pushing lots of packets from IP cams and NAS over wired, though), PPPoE, and guest network without reliability/stability issues? Or should I look for something else? Not planning to use stuff like USB, VPN etc. I have no experience with third party firmware, and I would prefer not to mess with it, although I would be comfortable with it.

 

[theveterans]

Stock firmware is bad and buggy for R7000 (stability and connection issues). The only way to make R7000 good is to install Kong's DDWRT (offers fast and stable connection with advanced features).

I use a Linksys WRT1900AC with stock firmware. The range and performance on 5 GHz (I don't have my 2.4 GHz radio enabled) is fast, stable and consistent which are my top priorities over advanced features that ASUS AC routers and Netgear R7000 with Kong DDWRT offer.

 

[RogerSC]

Stock firmware is bad and buggy for R7000 (stability and connection issues). The only way to make R7000 good is to install Kong's DDWRT (offers fast and stable connection with advanced features).

I use a Linksys WRT1900AC with stock firmware. The range and performance on 5 GHz (I don't have my 2.4 GHz radio enabled) is fast, stable and consistent which are my top priorities over advanced features that ASUS AC routers and Netgear R7000 with Kong DDWRT offer.

I agree that the R7000 is stable with dd-wrt firmware. It is also stable for a lot of people with stock firmware, depends on what you do with your router. The core routing and wireless functionality in the stock firmware is fine.

On the other hand, I don't find that the WRT1900AC is stable, and find that the wireless coverage that I get with it is not as good as that using the R7000 with dd-wrt or stock firmware. Sure, there are people out there that have had better luck with them, but I don't think that they're using wireless-AC, for one thing. The advice is to set it to wireless-N mode for maximum stability, and the thing is supposed to support wireless-AC (as the R7000 does quite capably). And don't touch the admin web GUI while the router is operating, for heaven's sake, no no no, that's just a silly thing to do *smile*.

So I guess we have to disagree on the WRT1900AC. I think that it has a ways to go before it is fully functional and stable. Maybe the OpenWrt firmware will help at some point, when they can release a full OpenWrt version rather than part OpenWrt and part Linksys/Belkin binary.

 

[TonyH]

Hi,
R7000 with dd-wrt is our main router. Linksys wrt1900 is only a back up on stand by. R7000 just chugs along...

 

[thiggins]

If you are heavily loading wireless with long transfers and or lots of clients, you should consider adding an AP in addition to the router. The second AP will provide better coverage and will also open up more bandwidth by using a second set of channels.

And yes, better placement should help range a lot, especially 5 GHz.

 

[shawn3090]

Thanks guys. I guess I'll go with the R7000 after all and install DD-WRT if need be. I have a couple other questions though:

1. Does placing the router behind a glass window significantly affect its 5 GHz range? I have an office separated by glass but otherwise with direct line of sight to everywhere I need coverage.

2. I am looking to buy from Best Buy, as they have a good return policy. However, the model number on their website is R7000-100NAS. Is there a difference between the R7000 we see everywhere else and this?

 

[RogerSC]

Thanks guys. I guess I'll go with the R7000 after all and install DD-WRT if need be. I have a couple other questions though:

1. Does placing the router behind a glass window significantly affect its 5 GHz range? I have an office separated by glass but otherwise with direct line of sight to everywhere I need coverage.

2. I am looking to buy from Best Buy, as they have a good return policy. However, the model number on their website is R7000-100NAS. Is there a difference between the R7000 we see everywhere else and this?

This has been discussed to death on the R7000 forum *smile*. The one you're seeing at Best Buy is the current model. Don't worry.

 

[thiggins]

If the glass has any metalized coating to reduce UV or heat loss, it could reduce throughput.

 

[Muyfa666]

Why bother with Netgear at all? Asus RT-AC68U with RMerlins custom firmware doesn't skip a beat.

 

[shawn3090]

This has been discussed to death on the R7000 forum *smile*. The one you're seeing at Best Buy is the current model. Don't worry.

OK thanks.

If the glass has any metalized coating to reduce UV or heat loss, it could reduce throughput.

OK so if it doesn't affect 2.4 GHz now then it should be fine? Never used 5 GHz before.

 

[thiggins]

OK so if it doesn't affect 2.4 GHz now then it should be fine? Never used 5 GHz before.

Metallized glass will affect both bands.

 

[htismaqe]

Almost all modern windows contain UV filtering and other coatings that will affect wireless signals. 5Ghz impact will most likely be more severe than 2.4Ghz but as Tim suggest, it will affect both bands.

 

[stevech]

If I'm not mistaken, the common UV coatings are RF transparent. It's the ones with metallic coatings - like you see in some arid areas' office buildings with the tan or gold glint - that are not so RF nice.

 

[AcostaJA]

This forum seems populated by Asus fans, as ddwrt seems populated by netgear fans now.

The truth is that both are the best money can buy now, maybe the linksys wrt1950 joins later as gets stable open source firmware.

The facts in favor for Asus RT-AC68U are superior wan-nat performance since Merlin already support hw acceleration, hw acceleration will be available soon on the R7000, on the other hand, Asus cloud features sucks, Kong ddwrt on the R7000 have the latest transmission, as well as samba 3, mini dlna. But seems Merlin is working to update Asus cloud apps with latest features, so in mid term there is an tie, by reference Asus has slightly better range, while NETGEAR more cpu power.

 

[shawn3090]

Got the router yesterday, and it has been rock solid so far. No hiccups or reboots, and I couldn't ask for more from the stock firmware, although I don't have a fiber connection or a lot of networking experience. The upstream QoS is awesome with a 768 Kbps connection. Just hoping it stays this way now.

The glass doesn't seem to be a problem either, but the walls are steel reinforced concrete, which is unfortunate (unless we get a tornado).

 

[htismaqe]

Got the router yesterday, and it has been rock solid so far. No hiccups or reboots, and I couldn't ask for more from the stock firmware, although I don't have a fiber connection or a lot of networking experience. The upstream QoS is awesome with a 768 Kbps connection. Just hoping it stays this way now.

The glass doesn't seem to be a problem either, but the walls are steel reinforced concrete, which is unfortunate (unless we get a tornado).

Do you have any wireless devices that frequently accept connections from wired clients, like say a wireless printer?

If so, keep watch at around the 48 hour mark of uptime. If you're going to have issues with stability, that will most likely be the first place and time you will see something.

 

[ppilot]

Got the router yesterday, and it has been rock solid so far. No hiccups or reboots, and I couldn't ask for more from the stock firmware, although I don't have a fiber connection or a lot of networking experience. The upstream QoS is awesome with a 768 Kbps connection. Just hoping it stays this way now.

The glass doesn't seem to be a problem either, but the walls are steel reinforced concrete, which is unfortunate (unless we get a tornado).

I bought this for my girlfriend's house after her WD N900 started going downhill and it's been an absolute rock. I decided to go overkill after the following routers didn't work well and that after a coupon the R7000 was only $20 more than the N900 Asus.

TP-Link TL-WDR4300
TP-Link Archer C7
Asus RT-AC56R (Complete POS)
Asus RT-N65R

 

[azazel1024]

If I'm not mistaken, the common UV coatings are RF transparent. It's the ones with metallic coatings - like you see in some arid areas' office buildings with the tan or gold glint - that are not so RF nice.

Most windows made in the last 10-15 years have low E coatings, which is sputtered aluminum deposited on the glass. Its a semi-transparent layer (generally from 30-70% visible light transmission depending on the kind of low E coating). IT WILL attenuate RF.

As a nice example, I just replaced an ancient single pane glass window with storm window, with a modern dual pane glass window with a nice low E coating on it. With my router was LoS through the window at 130ft away at the end of my drive way at my mailbox, on my tablet I would get a -71dBm wireless signal. Same router, but the new window and the window was relocated on the wall, so the router is NOT LoS, so I tested by moving the router to the window sill so it was LoS, but 10ft closer to the mailbox the signal dropped to -78dBm. This is with 2.4GHz, I did not check 5GHz.

So you are talking an extra 7dBm of signal attenuation due to the low E coatings on the glass (actually maybe closer to 8-9dBm, as in the test position it is slightly closer, but still only a window in the way). This can either be a bonus or a negative depending on your point of view. As far as I am concerned it is a bonus, as I'd rather keep my internal APs segregated more inside of my house and keep out any neighboring signals (though my neighbors are far away, but I can just barely see that there are surrounding networks depending on where I am in the house). I use an outdoor AP for outdoor coverage. In my front yard, its close enough to the house to still connect to the inside router/AP, even if it isn't a super strong signal.

 

[azazel1024]

Oh, by way of comparison, through the exterior wall itself instead of the window, which is 2x6 construction there, with R19 fiberglass, 1/2" drywall inside, 11/32" plywood sheating outside, 20# asphalt paper over that and vinyl siding overtop of that, results in 12dBm of attenuation. The same, but 2x4" construction with R13 is about 9dBm of attenuation. The 2x4" construction, but swapping vinyl for aluminum siding results in 20dBm of attenuation.

My house has lots of fun walls with which I can check different signal strength attenuations.

This is all on 2.4GHz.

A regular 2x4" wall with 1/2" drywall on both sides is in the 5dBm range for attenuation.

Lastly a 4ft thick cinderblock and stone fireplace is good for about 28-30dBm of attenuation.

Of course the inside measurements are little more iffy as there could be a resonable amount of signal reflection and bouncing that is occuring through doorways, thinner walls, etc. So pathing isn't as simple to figure out and attenuation might actually be greater than the numbers I have represent due to multipath. The outdoor measurements are pretty firm as the signal is going to have to go through that wall and doesn't really have any other router between client and basestation.

The measurements also are for directly through the walls, not at an angle.

 

[htismaqe]

Most windows made in the last 10-15 years have low E coatings, which is sputtered aluminum deposited on the glass. Its a semi-transparent layer (generally from 30-70% visible light transmission depending on the kind of low E coating). IT WILL attenuate RF.

This is correct.