Mac mini home server and need for a NAS?

[MVCronk]

Hi,
I have read so much on NAS's vs Mac mini as media servers that I am totally confused - I am hoping someone will enlighten me...
I have just converted our house to osx on a Mac mini with a 256gb ssd. It is the central working family computer in the house (4 of us, each with an account) but also is an iTunes server for Apple TV and our stereo. Currently a Seagate 2tb ext drive connected via usb to the mini, has the iTunes library and other data. There is a MBAir which I am struggling to get to 'see' the 2Tb drive mostly because I can't get the drive to be recognized or working when attached to the AirPort Extreme. There is also a couple of iPads floating around.
I am struggling to understand the difference between attaching a NAS vs a raid 1 box like a LaCie 2big to the extreme so that fixed and mobile machines can access a central data storage (or would they be attached to the mini?)
I am thinking I want to move to osx server and a raid box but am not sure if that will provide the central data access I want for the MBAir.
Since I am struggling to even frame good questions, I'll stop here and see if the smart folks in the room can see where I am at and where I am trying to get to.
Thanks for helping out a 50 year civil engineer who is IT challenged...
Cheers
Mark

 

[stevech]

A NAS like Synology or QNAP has a lot of other capabilities. try their on-line demos at their web sites. IMO: Use only Synology or QNAP if you want a small NAS.

These NASes are commonly used with Apple. I have an iPAD that uses my Synology NAS to print to non-Apple "airPrint" printers. And it uses the media server on the NAS. As do my Windows PCs.

My NAS has 2 drives but not RAID1 by my choice - better backup protection. I also have a large USB3 drive to backup the NAS since it may fail or be stolen.

 

[MVCronk]

There 2 similar topics, regrettably both mine (one old and one new) but I very much want your input. Maybe a moderator can slam them together...
Regardless, why a NAS vs mini + raid/external storage? Again, I am trying to make my mini the central server in our house.
Thank you for your time.
Mark

 

[vdemarco]

Hi,
I have read so much on NAS's vs Mac mini as media servers that I am totally confused - I am hoping someone will enlighten me...
I have just converted our house to osx on a Mac mini with a 256gb ssd. It is the central working family computer in the house (4 of us, each with an account) but also is an iTunes server for Apple TV and our stereo. Currently a Seagate 2tb ext drive connected via usb to the mini, has the iTunes library and other data. There is a MBAir which I am struggling to get to 'see' the 2Tb drive mostly because I can't get the drive to be recognized or working when attached to the AirPort Extreme. There is also a couple of iPads floating around.
I am struggling to understand the difference between attaching a NAS vs a raid 1 box like a LaCie 2big to the extreme so that fixed and mobile machines can access a central data storage (or would they be attached to the mini?)
I am thinking I want to move to osx server and a raid box but am not sure if that will provide the central data access I want for the MBAir.
Since I am struggling to even frame good questions, I'll stop here and see if the smart folks in the room can see where I am at and where I am trying to get to.
Thanks for helping out a 50 year civil engineer who is IT challenged...
Cheers
Mark

I have a mac mini running osx server with a 6TB Raid 5 disk attached, this disk is exported to the network at home.

Its the central time machine backup, and the mini is attached to the tv, etc, running xvmc to watch movies etc.

Having a computer be the NAS, means that you can run anything you want on it. for example the Synology NAS will not let you play some of the weird apple proprietary music formats.

I really like having an actual computer attached to the disk, gives you the most flexibility.

 

[stevech]

Again, I am trying to make my mini the central server in our house.
Thank you for your time.
Mark

Then you'd put lots of storage on the Mac Mini, USB, Thunderbolt, etc and not use a NAS nor the features NASes have that aren't in the Mini's OS.
Just be sure to have a good backup strategy.
In NASes or a RAID box connected to a comptuer (Mac Mini included)... "RAID is not a backup".

 

[saulos]

Hi Mark,
I think the mini will be a good NAS, but you have to install the OS server that will enable you to share as a real server the standard OS is not able to act as a server, second you will need a backup to keep your data safe in case the external HD will fail.
One more think is RAM 8g will be OK for it.
Have fun.

 

[MVCronk]

It seems the consensus is osx server with external storage, raid or otherwise and people rightly state raid is not a substitute for a backup strategy.
Do people have strong recommendation on a particular brand of raid hardware or at least ones I should avoid? Haven been looking at Lacie/caldigit/WD/etc and think the LaCie 2big TB should serve my needs well enough but have read they had quality issues....
Thanks again for the comments and advice.
Mark

 

[stevech]

You want a RAID box to plug into the MAC mini and be transparent as it being a RAID box, right?
How are you going to backup that RAID should be 1st question.

The Mac Mini would have USB2? USB3? eSATA? Thunderbolt? If USB2, Pretty slow.

I'd choose a < $200 dual drive NAS like Synology/QNAP and load it with drives you own. Need not two identical. This, rather than a RAID box connected to a Mac Mini.

 

[MVCronk]

Stevech,
In my simple understanding:
1) the Mac mini is both a workstation and the central server/data warehouse
2) The mini is in place but only has 256Gb SSD and i7 for processing speed so all data/media needs to be external to the mini.
3) the mini needs to serve both OS X/iOS mobile/wireless clients and possibly Win 7/8 clients as well, for data and iTunes/iPhoto/media libraries
4) the mini should also serve as the central print server for wireless clients if direct wireless printing is not available.
5) the mini is a 2012/13 so has usb3 and TB, and others..
6) assume osx server then I think the question is : does a nas bring additional value for money vs simple ext raid storage attached to the mini (vs router)
If not osx server then I think I need a nas to serve the broad range of wireless clients or I have to share external data drives which seems clunky. NAS would be attached to router vs mini in this case - correct?
7) I would expect to use TimeMachine to backup the data (nas or simple raid) to another external drive in any configuration.
I do hope this distills the discreet elements and presents my current understanding.
Q: when you recommend a $200 NAS box - do I read/understand that as a cheap way to get a raid unit or are you recommending a fully functioning nas to the mini instead of a raid box, even if I have osx server.
Sorry to be so dry - I really do want to understand this stuff.
Cheers

 

[stevech]

$200 fully functional NAS - but use your own drives.
Have you tried the on-line NAS demos at Synology and QNAP?
These are not just featureless storage.

They have their own Time Machine too- works with PCs and Apple and anything.

So, after you see demos, you can better appreciate that comparing these NASes to a RAID box, or a JBOD box, is apples to oranges, no pun intended.

Pass the Kool-aid!

 

[MVCronk]

Just poked around the synology demo - slick.
It begs a question though - I can't understand why someone would use osx server and a nas - they seem to have too much overlap/duplication...
What am I missing?
Cheers

 

[stevech]

Could be. I wonder if there's a side by side comparison of features and functions? This suggests a much shorter list for OSX server
http://www.apple.com/osx/server/features/ Doesn't mention DLNA or rSync or other common stuff - but maybe it is really there.

If you don't have the Mac Mini - and one for latest OSX, Apple's web site says it'll cost $999 for Mini+OSX license. Ouch. For a Mini with a 5400RPM disk. Does it like to run headless like a NAS?

Adding storage seems to need Thunderbolt. So It'd be USB3, presuming new Mini changed from Firewire to Thunderbolt. Not much of either around.

 

[MVCronk]

Thanks,

I need to go do some more homework on the osx server + ext drives vs osx + nas.
Cheers
Mark

 

[vdemarco]

Could be. I wonder if there's a side by side comparison of features and functions? This suggests a much shorter list for OSX server
http://www.apple.com/osx/server/features/ Doesn't mention DLNA or rSync or other common stuff - but maybe it is really there.

If you don't have the Mac Mini - and one for latest OSX, Apple's web site says it'll cost $999 for Mini+OSX license. Ouch. For a Mini with a 5400RPM disk. Does it like to run headless like a NAS?

Adding storage seems to need Thunderbolt. So It'd be USB3, presuming new Mini changed from Firewire to Thunderbolt. Not much of either around.

Yes it will run headless.
rsync is just a unix command line its there on macosx, dlna isn't there cuz apple doesn't really support it, but you should be able to find versions of it on the net that you can install if you need it.

 

[stevech]

In the real NASes... things like rSync have nice GUIs, time scheduling, automation.

 

[vdemarco]

In the real NASes... things like rSync have nice GUIs, time scheduling, automation.

This all really comes down to price. The Mac Mini (or anything) running osx server, will have the updates cached locally. So all of your iPhones, iPads will only have to go to your server to get the update. (Caching server)

If you run iTunes Home sharing on the mini, then all music formats will be supported (apple lossless, etc).

There really is a bunch of benefit to having a mac be the file server, but it does come at a cost.

Here are all of the features
http://www.apple.com/osx/server/features/

 

[saulos]

That is correct but Mark already have the mini and is a good one , what he really need is the Server OS version and an external raid , i think he can find good raid HW for the price of a new NAS, and in a MAC enviroment I think this is the best option.
I have a Qnap and when apple changed the time machine security I was unable to backup for few months
Just my 2 cent

 

[vdemarco]

That is correct but Mark already have the mini and is a good one , what he really need is the Server OS version and an external raid , i think he can find good raid HW for the price of a new NAS, and in a MAC enviroment I think this is the best option.
I have a Qnap and when apple changed the time machine security I was unable to backup for few months
Just my 2 cent

I agree, i am was in the same situation as Mark. I bought a MediaSonic, Raid box. I am pretty happy with it, a drive has failed on it recently, i pulled it out put in a new one, and 12 hours later it was up and running at full steam again.

(Yes i know that RAID != backup)

 

[MVCronk]

Thanks for the continued input/comments
I take some comfort in seeing some folks are supportive of the osx server + ext drives approach. Every time I have mixed Apple and non-apple stuff I get burned, so as much as possible I am trying to embrace an apple only environment to avoid unnecessary abuse...

I am thinking of going with the Lacie 2Big with dual 2Tb drives - i like the construction/design and they seem to have good support from apple - any reason I should look at something else? It seemed they may have had power supply/quality issues - not sure about current production...
I must say I am relieved to be leaving the osx server vs nas discussion behind me
Cheers
Mark

 

[stevech]

It'll be fun for you! Out there in unique-land.