Modem chipset question

[snakebite3]

Yes, and it also has issues like the 6, & 7

http://www.badmodems.com/Issue3.htm

It's also in the 6141. I used those two modems the past 6-7yrs and always knew something just felt off. When I switched from dial-up it honestly felt worse when gaming.

Thx for bring this up. I wasn't aware the severity of the issue. I don't know what change but for reason my ISP Time warner now provision 200/20 for the 6141. For years it has been limited to 100/20. The modem goes down a often I was blaming TW for it when the modem could be the cause. I should upgrade to the 8200 but it so expensive.

 

[randomName]

Look at it like this, simply getting away from that puma chip will be an improvement.

Refer to this posts for good cable modems: https://www.snbforums.com/threads/modem-chipset-question.44670/#post-382007

 

[Samir]

Is there a tool I can test my modem with?

Yes, there's a puma6 test at dslreports that you can run. BUT, make sure you ONLY have your computer connected to the modem and it's not doing stuff in the background.

I have 2 6190s with the supposed puma problems and neither one fails the dslreports test when there is zero traffic on the network. Furthermore, I regularly use a remote desktop connection that utilizes both modems via a ipsec vpn tunnel so if there was any latency issues, I'd feel it in a heartbeat. The puma scare is just that imo. I don't see any difference between the 6190s and the isp modems they replaced.

 

[randomName]

So recently I was on the phone with my ISP and the tech said to try my old SB6141 modem to generate some errors to cross check it with my MB8600, since I was seeing some T3 time out modem log errors. I ran the 6141 modem for 2 days and it was clear while gaming that the 6141's chipset is indeed a troubled chip. While gaming I noticed a random stutter/pause +/- 5 seconds.

 

[Samir]

What do you mean to 'generate some errors'? Either you have a defective modem or the isp has a configuration file for the 6141 that generates errors because otherwise the 6141 has a very clean record.

 

[randomName]

What do you mean to 'generate some errors'? Either you have a defective modem or the isp has a configuration file for the 6141 that generates errors because otherwise the 6141 has a very clean record.

Absolutely not. The 6141 has issues.

I've been using the 8600 for about a year now. Lately I was seeing (past tense) T3 timeout issues with the 8600. On the phone with my ISP. The tech suggested I swap my 8600 for the 6141 for a day or two to generate some errors. Let me explain how my isp collects errors, it's real simple. They take logs every 2 hours from the modem. So they couldn't see any logs when I immediately changed back to the 6141, so they said leave it installed for a day so they could collect any generated error logs. This way they were going to compare the error logs with the 8600 and the 6141 to see if the modems were both having T3 time out errors. Yes. There were T3 timeout errors on both modems. This was due to a "screaming" high upstream signal. You might think THAT was the issue with the 6141 but it was 1000% not the issue. After changing back to the 8600 the random stutter in the same games disappeared and was immediately noticeable and an improvement. It disappeared while STILL having the 'out of range' upstream signal. The upstream signal was on the high side. Very high. 2-3 days later when the tech came out he showed me the signals on his tech device and I could see the extremely high level and he ended up putting the dampener on the barrel. Once he did that he showed me the upstream signal again and it was "perfect".

 

[Samir]

So based on what your experience has been, that could still be just that particular modem that developed a problem versus a model number specific design defect--two totally different things.

You also have to remember that not all modems will be able to deal with the signals the same. After all, they still are modems and do have to modulate and demodulate and won't always be doing it the same due to different designs. No different than how all 56k modems back in the day were different in their connection speed even over the same phone line.

Bottom line is that if the 6141, 6183, or even 6190 has such sweeping defects, most retail outlets would have stopped carrying them due to the returns. And this didn't happen.

 

[randomName]

At the same time when there are issues and the company has spent most of their money making the product, a defect and recall could financially wipe out a company.

You should do more research on the issues with the Puma chip.

 

[Samir]

At the same time when there are issues and the company has spent most of their money making the product, a defect and recall could financially wipe out a company.

You should do more research on the issues with the Puma chip.

I did my research

I have 2 6190s with the supposed puma problems and neither one fails the dslreports test when there is zero traffic on the network. Furthermore, I regularly use a remote desktop connection that utilizes both modems via a ipsec vpn tunnel so if there was any latency issues, I'd feel it in a heartbeat. The puma scare is just that imo. I don't see any difference between the 6190s and the isp modems they replaced.

And these modems were from completely different from each other in terms of how I acquired them--one was new that I bought myself at Best Buy in the Chicago area, and the other was used which I purchased from another user here on the forum that didn't want to deal with the supposed issue. I halfway expected this modem to have issues, but in my tests swapping it with the other one in the Chicago install, they were identical so it was deployed in Alabama with a different isp than Chicago. And the Chicago and Alabama ones are constantly talking to each other via an ipsec vpn tunnel that's nailed up 24x7 over which multiple remote desktop sessions run 24x7. Remote desktop is just as latency sensitive as gaming or any other latency sensitive application, and having a vpn tunnel just adds another layer that would amplify any latency issues. And the results? ZERO issues for years now that this setup has been in place. The only time there's issues is when the underlying cable isps are having issues.

Regardless of all the pages of complaints and whatnot, including the in-depth technical analysis of what is supposedly 'wrong', in my experience it doesn't make a difference in the real world with real applications or there's nothing actually wrong. Perhaps because the problem was fixed so fast that the modems I have don't have the problem.

 

[randomName]

If you have not gamed with this modem then your defense is null

 

[Samir]

If you have not gamed with this modem then your defense is null

If you knew how networks worked, you'd have more than null to talk about.

The above shows the 7 layers of networking in the OSI model. This is how computer networking works from the bottom up.

You see where applications are? Level 7. Does that differentiate between games and other latency sensitive applications? NO. Anything that would be sensitive to latency is the same as anything else sensitive to latency. End of story.

You see layer 2 and 3? This is supposedly where the problem is with all these modems. And everything layer 4 and above would be affected by it. There's no special rules for games vs rdp, vnc or the like.

My tunnel between two points is probably one of the best test scenarios since all the routes are static and the only possible causes of excessive latency are on the isp side or my side. Guess what--there's none on either side.

Online gaming has a lot more routes involved, and they are more dynamic. And any time you change your cable modem, you're on a different IP that possibly comes in through a completely different route into your ISPs head-end equipment. Your 'difference' could be somewhere else in your route versus your own modem. Completely plausible and much, much, much more common as a root cause.

This is the problem with this supposed 'issue'--there are a lot of other explanations that are more likely than a mass amount of modems that are 'defective'. Because if this 'defect' was real, the returns alone would cause the product to be flagged in every retailer's inventory management system.

You want to stick to your guns on what you think is right, go ahead--give that sb6141 away to someone who could use it since it's 'junk'.

 

[randomName]

The SB6141 has problems. There is no explanation around it. You can talk about tests, tunneling, 7 layers, be a Meastro at networking architect, write lengthy explanations, disconnect from gamer's claims, etc. It has been said before elsewhere and even in this thread that the modem suffers issues. I've played different servers with different games over the past 8 or more years with these puma chips. 5+ years with UT3 with the 6121 and the 6141, from servers in Chicago, the East Coast official Epic Servers, to UT4 with servers in Atlanta. That's just two games. The RO:Rising Storm/Red Orchestra with servers all over, to Rising Storm Vietnam and servers all over, also. I even noticed it in CS:GO recently, and they even have special networking to help improve the game. I even moved once. In just those games mentioned the same issue comes up with the 6141 & 6121 no matter what. Consistent Random stuttering.

If I was unsure and had doubts I'd listen but there is absolutely no doubt that there is stuttering with the 6121 and 6141

 

[sfx2000]

the SB6121 and SB6141 modems have a decent track record, but they're aging out and largely end of life...

SB6183 has a good reputation, both the black (carrier provided) and the white (customer purchased off the shelf) - again, getting old these days, and carriers are starting to push for upgrades on this device.

SB6190, which is Puma6 - it does have it's issues, some have been addressed, but it's one to probably avoid, again, it's an older device, and there are better choices these days.

 

[randomName]

Could possibly the PCB and schematics be different between the modems, or if not, have undergone revisions to cut the problem out?

 

[Samir]

The SB6141 has problems. There is no explanation around it. You can talk about tests, tunneling, 7 layers, be a Meastro at networking architect, write lengthy explanations, disconnect from gamer's claims, etc. It has been said before elsewhere and even in this thread that the modem suffers issues. I've played different servers with different games over the past 8 or more years with these puma chips. 5+ years with UT3 with the 6121 and the 6141, from servers in Chicago, the East Coast official Epic Servers, to UT4 with servers in Atlanta. That's just two games. The RO:Rising Storm/Red Orchestra with servers all over, to Rising Storm Vietnam and servers all over, also. I even noticed it in CS:GO recently, and they even have special networking to help improve the game. I even moved once. In just those games mentioned the same issue comes up with the 6141 & 6121 no matter what. Consistent Random stuttering.

If I was unsure and had doubts I'd listen but there is absolutely no doubt that there is stuttering with the 6121 and 6141

There's tons of explanations around it. You just don't want to listen.

It could be as simple as a crappy driver on your nic or something else like that. The only other common thread has been your gaming computer. I'm willing to bet more on that being the source of the problem than the modem.

 

[Samir]

the SB6121 and SB6141 modems have a decent track record, but they're aging out and largely end of life...

SB6183 has a good reputation, both the black (carrier provided) and the white (customer purchased off the shelf) - again, getting old these days, and carriers are starting to push for upgrades on this device.

SB6190, which is Puma6 - it does have it's issues, some have been addressed, but it's one to probably avoid, again, it's an older device, and there are better choices these days.

Yep, this is the first time anyone has mentioned anything besides the 6190. And in my experience the 6190 is rock solid. No laggy mouse, no stuttering on the high resolution pdfs I look at all day, no issues across vnc--nothing like that. Could be just that I have the only 2 6190s in the world that are perfect (and pass dslreports puma test with flying colors), but I doubt it.

 

[Samir]

Could possibly the PCB and schematics be different between the modems, or if not, have undergone revisions to cut the problem out?

Or it could be something as simple as a software workaround that was implemented in the firmware. Most anything done in hardware can be done in software, so a major hardware fix can be implemented in software if the hardware is fast enough to run it without affecting other parts of the whole system.

ISPs always send their config to these modems anyways so if the ISPs pushed the fix, the end user would have never even seen the issue. This seems to be a logical reason why mine don't have issues at all.

 

[randomName]

There's tons of explanations around it. You just don't want to listen.

It could be as simple as a crappy driver on your nic or something else like that. The only other common thread has been your gaming computer. I'm willing to bet more on that being the source of the problem than the modem.

I've pointed out over a year that the only thing that brings the issue is the modems. The online gaming experience difference is like night and day. Games run completely smooth on the 8600 while they stutter with the 6121 and 6141. That's a huge red flag it's an isolated issue.

Before I bought the 8600 I did ask my IPS if the firmware was the latest up to day firmware for the 6141. I'm wondering if there is a way I could get into it and get a screen shot of that page without calling in to have them switch provision things over to that modem. Apparently they don't know and I'm now back on the 6141 at this point in my reply and looking around for the firmware and software revision.

Here is the help page, minus the serial number:

Model Name: SB6141
Vendor Name: ARRIS Group, Inc.
Firmware Name: SB_KOMODO-1.0.7.0-SCM00-NOSH
Boot Version: PSPU-Boot(25CLK) 1.0.12.18m3
Hardware Version: 7.0
Serial Number:
Firmware Build Time: Jul 22 2016 08:13:57

 

[Samir]

I've pointed out over a year that the only thing that brings the issue is the modems. The online gaming experience difference is like night and day. Games run completely smooth on the 8600 while they stutter with the 6121 and 6141. That's a huge red flag it's an isolated issue.

Before I bought the 8600 I did ask my IPS if the firmware was the latest up to day firmware for the 6141. I'm wondering if there is a way I could get into it and get a screen shot of that page without calling in to have them switch provision things over to that modem. Apparently they don't know and I'm now back on the 6141 at this point in my reply and looking around for the firmware and software revision.

Here is the help page, minus the serial number:

Model Name: SB6141
Vendor Name: ARRIS Group, Inc.
Firmware Name: SB_KOMODO-1.0.7.0-SCM00-NOSH
Boot Version: PSPU-Boot(25CLK) 1.0.12.18m3
Hardware Version: 7.0
Serial Number:
Firmware Build Time: Jul 22 2016 08:13:57

While the only thing that brings about the problem is swapping the modems, there's a lot more devices connected between you and your endpoint so any of those could be a culprit. It could even be as simple as an issue with your NIC or switch not liking your modem. An issue like this is rare, but I've seen it happen for sure.

Those details aren't of any use to me, but someone more knowledgeable in the specifics might be able to do something with it. Best thing I could offer you would be to test your modem in my same install as the 6190, but the 6141 wouldn't be fast enough for my full service bandwidth. And while that shouldn't affect anything, I wonder if the ISP would even support it.

 

[randomName]

I'm back on the 8600, but while I had the 6141 installed I did try a refresh to the 6141 and noticed there were, immediately, a bunch of uncorrected errors on all channels, the highest amount was 1599. The SNR on the downstream was in good standing, too (37-38).

Anyways the 6141 has been retired and replaced and my experience with it has been eye opening for sure. I do wish I had a decent backup modem but it is what it is.