Powerline networking -- surge kill devices?

[gordon]

Since surge protectors prevent the powerline adapters from working, will a power surge be passed through and burn out my electronics?

 

[stevech]

Not an absolute...

My considered opinion: the common surge protector are poppy-cock. They contain filters and shunts that may attenuate very short duration glitches - on the order of a 100 microseconds. A surge, as happens with the power company has a disruption that's visible in the lights, audible in the refrigerator motors, etc, can only be eliminated via a certain type of UPS.

IP on powerline is an RF signal and a fairly high frequency. It's like WiF on coax, no antennas. You have to place the power line adapters in outlets with say 10 ft. of physical wire between it and an attenuating device like certain "surge suppressor" power strips, certain TVs. HTPC as they have internal filters, etc. It's a lot of trial and error- running speed tests with things plugged here and there, things turned on, etc. Sometimes you get lucky on the first try. And you hope a newly plugged in thing won't negatively affect things.

So it's not as absolute as you suggest.

 

[westom]

Since surge protectors prevent the powerline adapters from working, will a power surge be passed through and burn out my electronics?

A protector adjacent to electronics will somehow block or absorb a surge? Read its specifications. Those were for surges that typically do not harm appliances.

Another type of surge must be earthed before entering a building. Decades previously, similar signal problems were seen with X-10 Controllers and other home automation devices. A popular solution in home automation forums was earthing one Leviton 'whole house' protector.

Today, you can do same with numerous solutions from a long list of manufacturers including ABB, Siemens, Polyphaser, General Electric, Intermatic, Syscom, Square D, Diteky, and Leviton. A Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot.

A minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. So that typically destructive surges (ie a direct lightning strike of 20,000 amps) does not even harm the protector. And so that energy dissipates harmlessly outside in earth. A surge not inside the building will not damage electronics, furnace, refrigerator, dimmer switches, clocks, or dishwasher. An effective solution means all appliances are protected - even smoke detectors. But only if that surge path to earth stays outside a building. Then radio waves on power lines are not subverted.

 

[CaptainSTX]

Lightning Protection

The energy in a Lightning strike contains more energy than a surge protector can handle. (As much as a billion joules )

That is why they are called surge protectors not lightning protection. If you home takes a lightning hit your electronics will be fried along with the wiring.

Good to have surge protectors but lightning rods and good grounding are needed to try and divert the energy from a lightning bolt.

 

[westom]

Effective surge protectors are for all commonly destructive surges including lightning. If a protector does not protect from lightning, then it is also not protecting from other destructive surges (ie stray cars hitting utility poles, linemen mistakes, etc). Lightning is a simple benchmark that separates superior protection from other devices that protect from not destructive transients.

Effective protectors always have a low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth. Protectors for typically not destructive transients (ie hundreds of joules) do not have that essential, low impedance connection.

A 'whole house' protector is for all types of surges including lightning. So that nobody knows a surge even existed. Even a protector must not fail.

Lightning rods are earthed to protect the structure. 'Whole house' protector is earthed to protect appliances. And do not interfere with power line communications including X-10 controllers and other powerline adapters.

 

[Samir]

Don't think that lighting can only come in via power. I saw lightning come into a $20k Mitel SX50 phone system via the phone lines, through the unit and backwards out the power supply where it went on to wreck a $10k fire alarm system. The lesson? Make sure ALL your grounds are done well to properly protect from lightning.

 

[stevech]

lightning hit the cable TV coax from pole to my house. Fried the set top box but not my TV.

Surge Suppressor strips are snake oil. They cannot cope with lightning. They are of no help, lacking storage like a UPS, for even a glitch in AC power. Glitch means a good fraction of the 60 Hz (US) power sine wave.
'
They MIGHT help a bit in human induced static electricity spikes -where you touch the AC cable on a dry day with cotton socks on.

Lotta marketing B.S.

Power strips with surge suppressors are not MoCA friendly if too near (wiring footage-wise) to a MoCA device.

 

[Samir]

lightning hit the cable TV coax from pole to my house. Fried the set top box but not my TV.

Surge Suppressor strips are snake oil. They cannot cope with lightning. They are of no help, lacking storage like a UPS, for even a glitch in AC power. Glitch means a good fraction of the 60 Hz (US) power sine wave.
'
They MIGHT help a bit in human induced static electricity spikes -where you touch the AC cable on a dry day with cotton socks on.

Lotta marketing B.S.

Power strips with surge suppressors are not MoCA friendly if too near (wiring footage-wise) to a MoCA device.

Yep, lightning is no joke. I'm surprised it just took out your cable box, but I guess the cable company has some suppressors on the line as well.

Interesting about the power strips and MoCA. Why does it cause issues?

 

[thoma]

Since surge protectors prevent the powerline adapters from working, will a power surge be passed through and burn out my electronics?

HomePlug adapters have MOV varistors in them -- same thing that's in the surge strips. Tim's reviews have photos of HomePlug circuit boards on them. The MOVs are the little blue things between power and ground.

The varistors can only soak up a certain amount of energy before dying. So the HomePlug does not provide much protection -- but then, neither does a power strip. You're not worse off.

 

[stevech]

A friend just tried a pair of IP on power line devices. He's non-technical. Reported back: no go. LED don't light correctly.
I told him how to choose where to plug-in and so on, and it works OK (for now).