Provider gave me Sagecom Giga Hub FAST 5689E for Fibe 1.5 Gigabit - Am I still better off with AC68 or AC86 as a router?

[rockstead]

My local carrier gave me one of these dual modem/routers like they normally do, the Sagecom Giga Hub FAST 5689E.

Previously I always just had my provider modem in bridge mode and I just use my ASUS AC68.

Is the AC68 capable of getting the full output from this 1.5 Gigabit connection as compared to the Sagemcom hub the carrier provided?

On a side not I also have an unopened Asus AC86 that I never got around to opening, would that one be even better to use from a perspective of output?

Thanks

 

[ika]

I searched for the Sagemcom F@st 5689 and looks like it has only one 10Gbps port and that is the WAN port (I assume you cannot configure it as a LAN port on an ISP device). If that is true, than I do not see it as a big plus (it is rare when a home environment saturates both the wired gigabit connections and the WLAN at the same time).
I also found info that it is a WIFI6 capable device? If that is true, that might warrant a deeper investigation (how it compares to the AC86U's famous wireless coverage)

That being said, both of the Asus routers are Gigabit only, so they could not do 1,5Gbps. The AC68U is a legend and a very stable model, but the AC86u is a lot better unit, especially if you are using OpenVPN, because it was the first model with hardware-accelerated AES support.

If you do not need the 1,5Gbps WAN (as I said, it will be rare when you would do, me thinks) and you would benefit from the features provided by the Asuswrt-Merlin FW (AMTM, OpenVPN, etc.), you might consider keeping the modem in bridge mode and use the AC86U as the main router.

You need to weight what is more important for you and decide.

 

[rockstead]

I searched for the Sagemcom F@st 5689 and looks like it has only one 10Gbps ports and that is the WAN port (I assume you cannot configure it as a LAN port on an ISP device). If that is true, than I do not see it as a big plus (it is rare when a home environemnt saturates both the wired gigabit connections and the WLAN at the same time).
I also found info that it is a WIFI6 capable device? If that is true, that might warrant a deeper investigation (how it compares to the AC86U's famous wireless coverage)

That being said, both of the Asus routers are Gigabit only, so they could not do 1,5Gbps. The AC68U is a legend and a very stable model, but the AC86u is a lot better unit, especially if you are using OpenVPN, because it was the first model with hardware-accelerated AES support.

If you do not need the 1,5Gbps WAN (as I said, it will be rare when you would do, me thinks) and you would benefit from the features provided by the Asuswrt-Merlin FW (AMTM, OpenVPN, etc.), you might consider keeping the modem in bridge mode and use the AC86U as the main router.

You need to weight what is more important for you and decide.

Wow, thanks for taking such a deep dive in to it.

So I definitely see the Sagemcom support wifi6, does the AC86 as well?

Is the AC86 even enough to take full advantage of my 1.5 Gigabit internet, should I be upgrading to something newer. I’m still using my old AC68 and I never even unboxed my AC86, I had always planned to make it my primary router and then I was going to add in the AC68 in a mesh configuration.

Aside from 4K streaming of large movie files (sometimes up to 70GB), the kids using the PS4 and PS5, and there are 4-5 of using using wifi at the same time for iPads/iphones, gaming pc, etc.

There are times I might download many TB, but it’s very seldom.

I’m also confused on how it works, so because the AC86 is only 1 Gigabit, it means the max speed I can get out of my 1.5 is only 1, so I’m kind of wasting it.

Also seems the Sagemcom doesn’t have an option for bridge mode, seems you need to do something different to bridge it.

 

[glens]

I too looked it up earlier today. There was a redit about it where it was stated if you set your router to log into the ISP with your pppoe credentials it will be assigned a public address and everything passes through just fine, all the same as bridged.

 

[rockstead]

I too looked it up earlier today. There was a redit about it where it was stated if you set your router to log into the ISP with your pppoe credentials it will be assigned a public address and everything passes through just fine, all the same as bridged.

I probably read the same thing today, isn’t there an issue with double NAT though? I’m not even sure what is the best way to enable the bridge, is see there is more than one and I think there is a way to not have double NAT but not entirely sure.

 

[sfx2000]

Just run the Router/AP/Gateway they provide...

Trust me, it'll be fine....

 

[rockstead]

Just run the Router/AP/Gateway they provide...

Trust me, it'll be fine....

I am so used to all the features and control in an Asus router, they carrier Bell provides this awful app called Bell wifi to control the provided Sagecom, I can’t lose all the bells and whistles of the Asus and the related app and router interface provides, not to mention Aimesh.

 

[L&LD]

The biggest reason to use the Asus: no need for insecure/inherently hackable 'apps'.

Use a PC with a browser you trust instead (always).

 

[glens]

I probably read the same thing today, isn’t there an issue with double NAT though? I’m not even sure what is the best way to enable the bridge, is see there is more than one and I think there is a way to not have double NAT but not entirely sure.

No doubling of the NAT from what I read (It was a two-year-old post?). Guy had linked internal images from FCC; some respondents thought he'd done a teardown.

As I recall, simply attach your router's WAN to the gateway's LAN and "login" pppoe via the router. The gateway will "bridge" that connection. 'Least that's what I /thought/ I "heard". Don't recall being able to shut down the gateway's radios, but if "nobody" is using them it shouldn't be a problemmatic amount of additional RF "ambiance". (Perhaps you can access the gateway and configure its DTIM interval to an ungodly amount?)

Though you'll be thus limited to 1Gb, if memory serves...

I consider myself _so_ fortunate to have symmetrical 0.5Gb fiber, even /if/ (though) it's CGNAT. I don't care enough these days to avail myself of any household services "from abroad".

 

[ika]

Wow, thanks for taking such a deep dive in to it.

So I definitely see the Sagemcom support wifi6, does the AC86 as well?

Is the AC86 even enough to take full advantage of my 1.5 Gigabit internet, should I be upgrading to something newer. I’m still using my old AC68 and I never even unboxed my AC86, I had always planned to make it my primary router and then I was going to add in the AC68 in a mesh configuration.

Aside from 4K streaming of large movie files (sometimes up to 70GB), the kids using the PS4 and PS5, and there are 4-5 of using using wifi at the same time for iPads/iphones, gaming pc, etc.

There are times I might download many TB, but it’s very seldom.

I’m also confused on how it works, so because the AC86 is only 1 Gigabit, it means the max speed I can get out of my 1.5 is only 1, so I’m kind of wasting it.

Also seems the Sagemcom doesn’t have an option for bridge mode, seems you need to do something different to bridge it.

So the Sagecom router/modem combo is capable of 1.5Gbps on one port, where you plug in the internet (this is called the WAN port). All the other ports (the LAN ports, where you hook up your wired devices) are only capable of 1Gbps.
This means, that if you hook up a wired PC/Playstation (with an ethernet cable) to the Sagecom device, that wired devices will not be able to exceed 1Gbps on that cable, but all of the devices together combined (with the wi-fi devices included) could do, so they could generate 1,5Gbps data usage together at the same time (note: it is rare when that happens with normal everyday "family" usage)

With the 1Gbps capable Asus routers, that could not happen because every port is 1Gbps (including the WAN port).

-

The Wi-Fi6 wireless capability of the Sagecom device is also a newer technology compared to the Asus routers you have, which are only Wi-Fi5 standard capable, but it is important to understand that all of that is only on paper. There is more than just supported standards (Wi-Fi6 vs Wi-Fi5) when it comes wireless networking. I tried to search for info about what kind of antennas your Sagecom unit has built in (how many devices can it talk to at the same time and at what speeds, etc,), but I found inconclusive results (For example. it looks like Bell in the States handles out this very same Sagecom unit with 2x2 Wi-Fi5 capability and 1Gbps ports only).

That is why I said that you would need to test things with both devices, because with that many wireless clients (STAs), you might find that the AC86u actually provides better coverage and speeds, despite its older technology.
(I would not consider the AC68u a viable alternative against the Sagecom when you already have the AC86u at hand, that is a much better router, but don't worry because as an AiMesh node, the AC68u can be still very usefull).

My mind says that you should listen to sfx2000 and use the Sagecom, but my Merlin infested heart compels me to say you should try the AC86u (I would definitely sacrifice the 1.5Gbps speed to use the AC86u, but that is stupid me, no cure for that)

Sorry if this all sounds too complicated, perhaps somebody else with better English can explain it better to you.

ps.: Just one advice: in general, it is always better to hook up devices with an ethernet cable instead of using Wi-Fi, this is especially true with gaming consoles or PCs).

Good luck.

 

[rockstead]

So the Sagecom router/modem combo is capable of 1.5Gbps on one port, where you plug in the internet (this is called the WAN port). All the other ports (the LAN ports, where you hook up your wired devices) are only capable of 1Gbps.
This means, that if you hook up a wired PC/Playstation (with an ethernet cable) to the Sagecom device, that wired devices will not be able to exceed 1Gbps on that cable, but all of the devices together combined (with the wi-fi devices included) could do, so they could generate 1,5Gbps data usage together at the same time (note: it is rare when that happens with normal everyday "family" usage)

With the 1Gbps capable Asus routers, that could not happen because every port is 1Gbps (including the WAN port).

-

The Wi-Fi6 wireless capability of the Sagecom device is also a newer technology compared to the Asus routers you have, which are only Wi-Fi5 standard capable, but it is important to understand that all of that is only on paper. There is more than just supported standards (Wi-Fi6 vs Wi-Fi5) when it comes wireless networking. I tried to search for info about what kind of antennas your Sagecom unit has built in (how many devices can it talk to at the same time and at what speeds, etc,), but I found inconclusive results (For example. it looks like Bell in the States handles out this very same Sagecom unit with 2x2 Wi-Fi5 capability and 1Gbps ports only).

That is why I said that you would need to test things with both devices, because with that many wireless clients (STAs), you might find that the AC86u actually provides better coverage and speeds, despite its older technology.
(I would not consider the AC68u a viable alternative against the Sagecom when you already have the AC86u at hand, that is a much better router, but don't worry because as an AiMesh node, the AC68u can be still very usefull).

My mind says that you should listen to sfx2000 and use the Sagecom, but my Merlin infested heart compels me to say you should try the AC86u (I would definitely sacrifice the 1.5Gbps speed to use the AC86u, but that is stupid me, no cure for that)

Sorry if this all sounds too complicated, perhaps somebody else with better English can explain it better to you.

ps.: Just one advice: in general, it is always better to hook up devices with an ethernet cable instead of using Wi-Fi, this is especially true with gaming consoles or PCs).

Good luck.

That all made perfect sense, thanks for explaining it to me.

My carrier is Bell Canada and I see that people refer to the modem as the Giga Hub HH4000.

I’m going to do checks on the range of the wifi, I had always wanted to go with the Asus AiMesh so that I could have range for the backyard too but I haven’t even tested out the new carrier equipment so maybe it’s good.

I’m the event it’s not good, I see that the carrier sells these wifi pods, but I don’t want to get locked in to anything carrier specific that increase the monthly fee, what’s the best way to extend range on routers like this if you aren’t using AiMesh?

Another thing I noticed on the HH4000 is that the wifi signals aren’t separate, so on my ASUS/Merlin I had a different connection for 2.4 and 5, while on the HH4000 I only see one wifi connection which I assume is including 2.4, 5, and 6, I’m not sure if that’s a negative or not.

One thing I liked about Merlin is that everything was configurable while the HH4000 has very few user options.

 

[ika]

For AiMesh, you would need to connect the node with a cable, that gives far superior result compared to wireless backhaul connections (triband routers might be good enough for wireless backhaul, but with the AC68u, I would definitely go wired).

If you keep the Sagecom as the main router, you can just use the Asus as extender or AP but the SSID needs to be different if you do not want "trouble".

I might be old fashioned when it comes to combined 2,4/5/6 Ghz Wi-Fi, but I still prefer to use them separately (so I prefer having two SSID, for example: MyWIFI and MyWIFI_5Ghz). There are new technologies, like SmartConnect, but I found them unreliable, especially with AiMesh, so I just manually assign devices to the SSIDs I see fit. For example:

• 2.4Ghz are slower, but it is a lot more powerful, it can penetrate walls much better (not all material of course, do not expect to go through 1meter thick concrete), so it is more suited for devices like phones, roombas, etc; which do not require much bandwidth, but move a lot around.
• 5Ghz are a lot faster, but also has a lot less penetration strength. I used to say that it spreads like light (which is an exaggeration of course), so it is more suited to (gaming) computers and consoles, wireless VR, etc.

You really need to experiment, ask for help in the right threads, people will help. It is time consuming, but that is the only way to learn and find the best settings for you scenario.

 

[sfx2000]

My mind says that you should listen to sfx2000 and use the Sagecom, but my Merlin infested heart compels me to say you should try the AC86u (I would definitely sacrifice the 1.5Gbps speed to use the AC86u, but that is stupid me, no cure for that)

The carrier-provided gateways are much better than they were a few years ago - and with recent developments on the WAN side providing vastly faster link speeds, most of the customer off-the-shelf routers will struggle to keep up.

 

[ika]

The carrier-provided gateways are much better than they were a few years ago - and with recent developments on the WAN side providing vastly faster link speeds, most of the customer off-the-shelf routers will struggle to keep up.

I agree with that, that is why I wrote what I wrote, but they are also still very limited towards the user in many ways and cut corners everywhere they can (after all, they have to hand them out to tens of thousands of subscribers, so every cent counts).

I used my 2Gbps connection with an AC86u for more than a year and just recently upgraded to a GT-AX6000 in September, and no regrets there. For me, the features and the addons easily outweigh the extra speed (which is very nice indeed, but not everything).

I also pointed out that it makes no sense and I'm doing it because of passion and not because it is the reasonable choice.

 

[coxhaus]

Technology has moved on and the older stuff gets outdated. You need to move on also. Reminiscing does not help in the tech world.

 

[rockstead]

Technology has moved on and the older stuff gets outdated. You need to move on also. Reminiscing does not help in the tech world.

It’s not the reminiscing, it’s how full featured my Asus router was compared to this modern modem/router, I can barely control a thing with it.

 

[coxhaus]

It’s not the reminiscing, it’s how full featured my Asus router was compared to this modern modem/router, I can barely control a thing with it.

There is a lot of good Cisco hardware that gets outdated. It does not matter how full featured it is you have to move on to keep up with technology. If you don't like basic features, then buy the newer technology in what you want. It is why I quit buying other than Cisco because they were not full featured enough.