ReadyNas Duo vs DS209

[phizzman]

Hello,

I am trying to decide between these 2 products for my first NAS. I run a small business from my house (lots of CAD work - AutoCAD,Revit, Chief Architect). The unit will also store our music and such (no video streaming, but probably music).

One situation is price. Duo = $200 after rebate, DS209 = $300. The other situation is that I have 2 hard drives (relatively new) that will work in the DS 209 (supposedly-but I've heard that list is questionable), but are not supported by the Duo. This makes the cost basically the same or a little more for the Duo. The Duo seems like it is based on older technology and is slower than the DS 209. I can get a sense of what the OS for the DS-209 is like, but I have not had much luck finding something on the Duo's

I will soon be running a windows 7 pro laptop, but will also have a win xp and separate ubuntu linux box. The Duo appeals to me because of the hot-swapping, while the DS 209 seems to be more feature rich.

Any opinions?

Thank you,

Dave

 

[claykin]

Hello,

I am trying to decide between these 2 products for my first NAS. I run a small business from my house (lots of CAD work - AutoCAD,Revit, Chief Architect). The unit will also store our music and such (no video streaming, but probably music).

One situation is price. Duo = $200 after rebate, DS209 = $300. The other situation is that I have 2 hard drives (relatively new) that will work in the DS 209 (supposedly-but I've heard that list is questionable), but are not supported by the Duo. This makes the cost basically the same or a little more for the Duo. The Duo seems like it is based on older technology and is slower than the DS 209. I can get a sense of what the OS for the DS-209 is like, but I have not had much luck finding something on the Duo's

I will soon be running a windows 7 pro laptop, but will also have a win xp and separate ubuntu linux box. The Duo appeals to me because of the hot-swapping, while the DS 209 seems to be more feature rich.

Any opinions?

Thank you,

Dave

Both can work in your application. yes, assuming you have a Gigabit wired LAN the Synology will have faster transfer speeds. if using 10/100 or Wifi, both boxes will be about the same (limited to the max speed of your network).

If Synology does not have those disks on their compatibility list I'd be very cautious about using them. This is your data and your business. Time is money and you don't want to be fumbling around chasing stupid issues that may be avoided by simply using known approved disks. For instance I've seen people on the forums proclaim an unapproved disks works for them (so they add it to the user approved list) then some weeks/months later that same user is now complaining about SMART errors, no disk spindown, etc....

Yes, some of the user approved disks work, but do you want to be the guinea pig with your setup and data? IMO, especially for business use, purchase Enterprise calls disks such as the Seagate ES2. Again, check the official compatibility lists.

Also, get a UPS (preferably APC) and connect the USB cable to the NAS for monitoring and shutdown. Aside from backing up your data (which you should routinely do with any NAS), using a UPS is the second best way to protect your NAS and its data.

 

[phizzman]

duo vs ds209

Thanks for your post. The disks in question are not on the Duo's list, they are on the Synology's list. but what I've read is the synology's list includes some drives that do not actually work well, which I assume is what you were referring to?

I have an ample sized UPS that my pc and nas will be connected to. Is the reliability the same for both? Is there any advantage to the OS of either NAS over the other?

Should I be buying new hard disks regardless?

Thanks again

 

[claykin]

Thanks for your post. The disks in question are not on the Duo's list, they are on the Synology's list. but what I've read is the synology's list includes some drives that do not actually work well, which I assume is what you were referring to?

Both companies have an official list of approved disks and a user (unapproved) list of disks. I say to go with the approved list because if you have issues one of the first things the manufacturer will do is tell you that you did not use approved disks....

I have an ample sized UPS that my pc and nas will be connected to. Is the reliability the same for both? Is there any advantage to the OS of either NAS over the other?

Does your UPS have a USB port for monitoring? Is it connected to your PC for PC shutdown when the batteries get low on juice? If so, you really should do the same with the NAS. The easiest thing is to buy a 500VA APC UPS for $50 and let that be stand alone for the NAS. Note, most NAS models are very picky when it comes to UPS monitoring. I recommend the APC Backups models because they tend to work with all NAS units (probably because they are found at every retailer). Stay away from second tier makers like Cyberpower.

Should I be buying new hard disks regardless?

If you have approved disks, then I say try them out. Just make sure to monitor the SMART data in the NAS front end to make sure errors are not being reported. These errors usually are a tell tale sign of eventual disaster. Have you tried searching the Readyans forum to see what other users say about the disks you have? See here:

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=82

 

[phizzman]

Duo/ds209

Thanks for the advice on the UPS, I think my existing is cyberpower.

I have been reading about the boot issues the DUO's boot issues on the readynas forums. This is making me move towards the DS209 as I can't wait for Netgear to respond to get my data back or have to go to a backup, etc. It is beginning to look like the DS209 is more stable which is the most important part to me.

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=33409

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=33902

Should I be concerned about this?

Dave P

 

[claykin]

Thanks for the advice on the UPS, I think my existing is cyberpower.

I have been reading about the boot issues the DUO's boot issues on the readynas forums. This is making me move towards the DS209 as I can't wait for Netgear to respond to get my data back or have to go to a backup, etc. It is beginning to look like the DS209 is more stable which is the most important part to me.

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=33409

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=33902

Should I be concerned about this?

Dave P

Both of the links you posted are related to disk issues. It seems the first one may be linked to bad firmware Seagate shipped on some disks during mid 2008 through early 2009. This issue was NOT limited to Netgear. Search the Synology, QNAP, etc. forums and you'll find many similar stories. Also, many Dell, HP, etc. PC's suffered from this issue. It was a huge screw up on Seagate's part. Click here to read more on it.

http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=207931

The second link you provided was for a person who used Seagate's 1.5TB disk which also had known issues that affected many NAS products. I think Seagate finally fixed it and the NAS vendors had to do workarounds in the NAS firmware to accommodate it.

That doesn't mean Seagate is bad. All vendors have had problem models and problem firmware.

A completely separate issue and one more important/annoying IMO is the fact that the Readynas uses 16KB block size file format. 16KB blocks are difficult to read on PC hardware without specialized software that is really difficult to configure. Synology uses 4KB blocks which is standard and easily readable. That said, no matter which NAS you go for it is important for you to backup the critical non replaceable data because there are cases where the RAID disks are unreadable. And, between the Readynas and Synology NAS I think you'll find the Readynas to be friendlier to backup data to a USB disk (there's no 16KB issue on the external disks).

If you want to read more about the 16KB block issue for the Readynas see here

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=24861

 

[phizzman]

Duo/ds209

I'll have to decide for myself of course, but taking all things into account which one would you choose in this case? I am computer and network savvy. I've been having trouble deciding.

Dave P

 

[claykin]

I'll have to decide for myself of course, but taking all things into account which one would you choose in this case? I am computer and network savvy. I've been having trouble deciding.

Dave P

Do you need the additional speed of the DS209? Is your LAN Gigabit? If not, performance will be about the same with both units unless you have multiple clients accessing the NAS simultaneously.

Will you use the additional features of the 209 (IP camera DVR, mail server, web server, iPhone app to stream media files, etc...)? If so, then i think the answer is clear because the Readynas is not as convenient to get these services up and running (and some aren't supported currently).

I do like Netgears 3 year no hassle warranty on the Duo. Its easy to get support and an exchange if you have problems. Synology recently opened a US office, but its unclear what services this office will provide. Until they tell the world otherwise, warranty replacement is normally handled through the selling dealer. Support is via the forum with only limited phone support available. This has been my experience, but I haven't contacted them recently so things may have improved now that they have representation in the US. Synology NAS is a good product, but like all NAS products it has its quirks (check the forums to see what users talk about).

have you looked at the QNAP TS 219P? I think its about $400 but its also quite competitive with the above plus it supports hot swap and I think you preferred that feature. QNAP also makes a quality product but has similar support limitations as Synology. Both are Taiwan HQ companies with limited assistance in the US. Hopefully that will change.

I normally stick with the Readynas products because I know them. Switching between NAS products is just a recipe for me going bald!

Its your call, I won't pull the trigger for you.

 

[phizzman]

duo-ds209

I eliminated the QNAP based on price alone (not in my budget). It is concievable there will be 2 clients connecting to it at once (right now) and more as the kids get older. Thanks for clearing up the question on the duo's boot issue. I read the part about the Duo's 16kb on the forum before and it does concern me a little bit, but it may not be that big of a deal in reality.

I have other netgear products that I have been happy with.

 

[phizzman]

Duo

Does the Duo have any issues with Windows 7? I have seen some posts related to it.

 

[claykin]

Does the Duo have any issues with Windows 7? I have seen some posts related to it.

Haven't tested with Win 7 much yet and the limited testing I did was using wired gigabit and my NVX.

With Vista and 7 some users complain about issues with poor performance when using wifi. It seems that playing with MTU settings seems to resolve the problem for most. Not sure if those who continue to complain have other issues that are also causing problems. In my experience I've seen many, many PC's with all sorts of garbage installed that messes with connectivity. Especially Vista PC's. So many people force install non Vista software (including old AV's, etc..) and expect things to work. Not to mention some of the horrid software installed by many OEM's. So, until I see the problems in person I don't validate them.

MS improved Vista considerably with SP1 and again with SP2. I haven't seen horrible networking issues on machines that are patched. Win 7 is rumored to have additional tweaks.

Based on the complaints it sure looks like Netgear is planning some firmware tweaks to attempt to solve this once and for all. The next version of RAIDIATOR for the Duo/NV+ is rumored to go into beta testing before the end of the year.

Have you checked the Synology forums to see what Win 7 users say? it may be tough to compare since Win 7 is so new and the Synology forums are a bit less active. Synology has a specific Vista forum. Scan this and you may see some similarities to whats being discussed in the Netgear forums.

http://forum.synology.com/enu/viewforum.php?f=49

Remember, none of these devices is free of problems. Its basically a simplified server so expect to spend some time learning and managing issues. Once you get that behind you, it should be smooth sailing.

 

[claykin]

I eliminated the QNAP based on price alone (not in my budget). It is concievable there will be 2 clients connecting to it at once (right now) and more as the kids get older. Thanks for clearing up the question on the duo's boot issue. I read the part about the Duo's 16kb on the forum before and it does concern me a little bit, but it may not be that big of a deal in reality.

I have other netgear products that I have been happy with.

2 clients running on a 100mb/s LAN can saturate the Duo's capabilities if they are hammering the Duo at the same time (like backing up or one backing up and another copying). And if you plan to add more users in the future, you may be best off with a higher performance NAS like the 209.

If its unlikely users will hit the NAS simultaneously, it won't be an issue for the Duo to easily handle.

Sometime next year I expect to see a 2nd gen Duo with improved performance. My guess with no confirmation from Netgear!

 

[phizzman]

dduo vs ds209

so what you're telling me is to crap or get of the pot?

I realize there is no guarantee whatever I choose will be trouble free. I thought the current Duo seemed a bit more dated, so I wouldn't be surprised if new ones came out next year (that's probably why the Duo's are so cheap now.) I'm guessing the new versions will be more expensive.

To my way of thinking, it is better to plan for the future especially if I'm going to own use it for a long time. As much as like some things on the Duo, I am leaning more towards the DS209.

your advice has really helped. Thank you.

 

[claykin]

Happy to help. Have fun and let us know how it goes!

 

[phizzman]

File size

One last thing. I think for me it comes down to speed. I do have some files that are 30 mb and in the future i wouldn't be surprised to see 100mb file sizes or more (revit files are notoriously big). Would i see any noticeable improvement with the DS209 over the Duo in that case? (with and without streaming Itunes)

Thanks

 

[claykin]

One last thing. I think for me it comes down to speed. I do have some files that are 30 mb and in the future i wouldn't be surprised to see 100mb file sizes or more (revit files are notoriously big). Would i see any noticeable improvement with the DS209 over the Duo in that case? (with and without streaming Itunes)

Thanks

Did you check the NAS charts on this website? They are really helpful to help users understand throughput of various file sizes.

Here's a couple links to compare the 209 and Duo Read performance. You can adjust the pull down menu to switch to Write. Definitely the 209 is WAY WAY faster than the pokey Duo.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/index.php?option=com_nas&Itemid=&chart=13

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/index.php?option=com_nas&Itemid=167

If I can be honest with you, the poor Duo performance is what pushed me to get the NVX for my personal use. I paid $999 (free ship) for the NVX with 2 x 1TB Seagate ES2 disks. if you consider the NV+ is $500 diskless, then add 2 x 1TB ES2 disks ($250) = $750 for the NV+ with the same storage capacity as the NVX. Considering that I'll keep it for at least 2-3 years its worth the extra few $$$ for the WAY WAY better performance of the NVX.

Do I wish Netgear had a 2 bay unit with x86 hardware? YES! But they don't at this time and now I've got 2 empty bays for future expansion so I'm thrilled.

I had also looked at the Synology and QNAP 4 bay units before I pulled the trigger on the NVX. All 3 have models with similar performance and within $100 the same price of each other. I just prefer, and am more comfortable, with the Readynas products. I can always get answers to my questions and when problems are more involved the engineers will contact you directly to work them through.

The few times I posted to the QNAP and Synology forums, I walked away unimpressed with their followup. My 2 cents.

 

[phizzman]

I want to like the Duo, I really do, I just dont' think I can give up the performance. If it was just faster.

 

[claykin]

I want to like the Duo, I really do, I just dont' think I can give up the performance. If it was just faster.

Such is life....And if my NVX had eSATA and USB 3.........

 

[dself]

Synology recently opened a US office, but its unclear what services this office will provide. Until they tell the world otherwise, warranty replacement is normally handled through the selling dealer. Support is via the forum with only limited phone support available. This has been my experience, but I haven't contacted them recently so things may have improved now that they have representation in the US.

Hi Phizzman and Claykin,

My name is Doug Self and I'm with Synology America. Thanks for considering the DS209, please let us know if you have any questions. I'd like to clarify a few things about Synology America.

First, we have had a US presence for almost 4 years, we are headquartered in Redmond, WA with a sales team in the Los Angeles area. Here in Redmond, we have management, marketing, operations, support, and shipping teams that serve only the North American market.

As far as US support, we have much more than just forums. Our in-house phone support is staffed by our product experts that support only thing - Synology DiskStations. The support team is available at (425) 818-0858 from 9-5 PST or through the email support form at www.synology.com.

We also recently debuted a regional website for the US market, your IP should automatically direct you, but if not please visit www.synology.com/us. We've added additional resources relevant to guide and support our North American users.

Again, thanks for the consideration, we look forward to serving you in the future.

Best,

Doug Self
Synology America Corp.

 

[claykin]

Hi Phizzman and Claykin,

My name is Doug Self and I'm with Synology America. Thanks for considering the DS209, please let us know if you have any questions. I'd like to clarify a few things about Synology America.

First, we have had a US presence for almost 4 years, we are headquartered in Redmond, WA with a sales team in the Los Angeles area. Here in Redmond, we have management, marketing, operations, support, and shipping teams that serve only the North American market.

As far as US support, we have much more than just forums. Our in-house phone support is staffed by our product experts that support only thing - Synology DiskStations. The support team is available at (425) 818-0858 from 9-5 PST or through the email support form at www.synology.com.

We also recently debuted a regional website for the US market, your IP should automatically direct you, but if not please visit www.synology.com/us. We've added additional resources relevant to guide and support our North American users.

Again, thanks for the consideration, we look forward to serving you in the future.

Best,

Doug Self
Synology America Corp.

Doug

Most excellent. Never knew Synology had a US office as I've seen the forum moderators direct users back to the selling dealer for replacement. Is support something new for the US office? Is the US office now handling warranty replacements or do users still go back to their selling dealer? How about out of warranty repairs after the 2 years is up?