returning an ac68u for a cheaper one

[rckt]

Hello! first Post!

I ordered an ac68u 2 weeks ago, received it, played with it and I'm not quite satisfied. Range wise it's fine, it's better than my isp's box (Free in France). However I realized it's way too complicated for my needs: I just need a solid access point (=something that works and offers a good range), not the latest in beta technology (since I got this ac68u, I never installed so many firmwares in a couple of days on a single device). My clients are mostly 802.11n on 5ghz and some old 802.11g stuff (mainly networked radios like squeezeboxes). AC is required though for my future stuff and usb is a plus to run some downloads or serve as a networked backup.

So, I decided to return the ac68u (>160 euros here) for something cheaper (<100 euros) so I can purchase an extra hard drive with the extra money

I'm hesitating between these two routers:
- the ac56u : ...so all I learned from the ac68u these last two weeks won't be wasted... but is the 2.4 Ghz that bad? And it has only 4 antennas...
- the archer C7: less sophisticated than the Asus, 6 antennas... but no beamforming...

Well what would be your pick?
Thanks for your answers!

 

[L&LD]

In a smaller setting (not much smaller though), the RT-AC56U is a solid performer for my customers.

RMerlin firmware 'required', of course.

 

[rckt]

Thanks for your reply!
I think I'm gonna try it and see how good it is...
By the way I found out that the 5ghz network on the ac68u stops working properly after a couple of hours being unused: I can connect to it but it does not let my client get an ip address... if shut wifi off then on, it works fine again.
I just hope this is not a firmware issue (last asus, same on last rmerlin) because I suppose it might happen also on the ac56u...

 

[jegesq]

Don't overlook the AC66's. Many online sellers are now heavily discounting them (you can get refurbished ones for less than the 56U's). The 56's have dual core processors, but if you're not going to use any of the extra features (e.g., USB, VPN, etc.) and just want to do solid routing, the AC66's are perfect for that, and with three external antennas instead of the 56U's two internals, range and throughput are going to be better in most environments.

 

[System Error Message]

i think both the ac56u and ac68u are the same except one with external antennas and the other internal. it depends on range you need.

 

[jegesq]

The 56's and 68's are "the same" only in that they use the same Broadcom CPU's. When it comes to speed and throughput, the 66U's and 68U's are much more similar in terms of overall wireless routing and internet speed performance (of course for other tasks, such as USB disk storage, VPN, etc., the 68's are "significantly" faster).

But for routing traffic from LAN to WAN and vice versa, the 66U's and 68U's are much more similar to each other than the 56U and 68U are to each other: Both the 66 and 68 are 3x3 devices (three antennas), and on the 5ghz channel, they are rated identically (1300Mbps max). The 68 has a theoretical maximum combined dual throughput of 1900 Mbps (1300 Mbps on 5ghz 11ac +600 Mbps on 2.4ghz 11n), whereas the 66U has a theoretical max of 1750Mbps (1300 + 450). If you're using 5ghz 802.11ac client devices that are also 3x3, you'll get better performance from the 66U or 68U than you would with a 56U.

The 56U is a 2x2 device (two internal antennas) and has a maximum 1200Mbps combined throughput on dual bands (867Mps on 5ghz + 300Mpbs on 2.4ghz).

In the real world though, most wireless adapters designed for client devices (e.g., virtually every USB laptop adapter, or internal wireless adapters, such as the Intel AC7260's) are only 2x2 devices, so the best you can do with 5ghz is 867Mbps PHY link speed anyway. There are only a couple of 3x3 client device solutions, but they are PCIe cards designed for desktops.

You will see a big difference though if you use repeater mode and are connect two 3x3's together, as opposed to connecting a 3x3 with a 2x2 in a router/repeater combination.

 

[rckt]

Thanks for your opinions!

I haven't ordered anything in replacement yet.

However, to me, form factor is something important and that's why I chose the ac68u in the first place to the ac66u (I prefer to have the router in vertical position with ethernet ports on the bottom). So, on that aspect, the ac56u is still the better option (compared to the ac66u or the archer C7).

Range wise, my main requirement is to be able to stream iptv over maybe 30 feets on 5ghz 802.11n (no "ac" client yet), in a different room separated by a concrete wall. With the ac68u it was ok.

Price wise unfortunately the ac66u is still around 130 euros in France vs the ac56u being at less than 100 euros...

So I guess I just need to test myself the ac56u and see if it does the job (range wise and stability)... fortunately amazon's return policy is very handy!

 

[jegesq]

Thanks for your opinions!

I haven't ordered anything in replacement yet.

However, to me, form factor is something important and that's why I chose the ac68u in the first place to the ac66u (I prefer to have the router in vertical position with ethernet ports on the bottom). So, on that aspect, the ac56u is still the better option (compared to the ac66u or the archer C7).!

The AC66U comes with a stand that you attach to the mounting holes on the "bottom" (back) of the router, so it will stand up exactly like the 56U/86U. The big difference in form factor is that the 66U can be wall-mounted, whereas the 56 and 86 cannot be.

 

[SingerWang]

In the real world though, most wireless adapters designed for client devices (e.g., virtually every USB laptop adapter, or internal wireless adapters, such as the Intel AC7260's) are only 2x2 devices, so the best you can do with 5ghz is 867Mbps PHY link speed anyway. There are only a couple of 3x3 client device solutions, but they are PCIe cards designed for desktops.

There are several wireless laptops that have 3x3 AC. In fact in my home network there are two right now ;p

 

[sfx2000]

FWIW - this "poll" pops up as unread and at the top of the list, and it's not really well thought out.

Recommend modifying this thread, or removing it.

sfx

 

[jegesq]

There are several wireless laptops that have 3x3 AC. In fact in my home network there are two right now ;p

As I said "most wireless adapters" and "virtually all" are 2x2. There are only two 3x3 internal wireless adapters for laptops that I have ever seen: The Intel 5300 and Intel 5100, and to the best of my knowledge, they are only 802.11n cards, not 802.11ac.

In 802.11ac internal mini-pcie cards with 3x3, the only one I'm aware of is the Qualcomm Atheros QCA9890 based card, and as far as I know, it's only offered by DoodleLabs in enterprise and military solutions, not in consumer laptops.

Everything else out there that I'm aware of that is intended for consumer use at the moment is either made by Intel (the AC7260), or by Broadcom (BCM4352), or Realtek ( RTL8812AE ), and all of those are only 2x2, not 3x3.

So I'm curious, since you say you have at least two laptops that are running 802.11ac 3x3 internal cards. What cards are your laptops using, and what is the brand and model number of your laptops that have these 3x3 internal 802.11ac cards? Would really like to know. Thanks.

 

[jegesq]

FWIW - this "poll" pops up as unread and at the top of the list, and it's not really well thought out.

Recommend modifying this thread, or removing it.

sfx

Can just the poll be removed without removing the entire thread? I agree with sfx, I don't really see the point of the poll in the context of this thread.

 

[SingerWang]

So I'm curious, since you say you have at least two laptops that are running 802.11ac 3x3 internal cards. What cards are your laptops using, and what is the brand and model number of your laptops that have these 3x3 internal 802.11ac cards? Would really like to know. Thanks.

I have a model 2014 MacBook Pro 15" Retina (MacBookPro11,3) and my GF has 13" (MacBookPro11,1) version of the said laptop. I have a AC87U at home and when we are in the same room both are able to do 1300Mb/s to the router. It runs the BCM4360 chipset which is 3x3 AC.

I think the MacBook Pro is one of the rare models that have 3x3.

 

[jegesq]

I have a model 2014 MacBook Pro 15" Retina (MacBookPro11,3) and my GF has 13" (MacBookPro11,1) version of the said laptop. I have a AC87U at home and when we are in the same room both are able to do 1300Mb/s to the router. It runs the BCM4360 chipset which is 3x3 AC.

I think the MacBook Pro is one of the rare models that have 3x3.

Nice. I was not aware that MacBook Pros used that card, or that it was even available as a laptop adapter. I know that the Asus PCE-AC62U uses it, but I was not aware it was used in any current laptop models. What's really interesting is that even Broadcom doesn't market this card for laptop applications; instead it is marketed solely for use in routers and cable modem gateways. (see http://www.broadcom.com/products/Wireless-LAN/802.11-Wireless-LAN-Solutions/BCM4360, and look at the tab "applications").

I did some additional research on it, and found that ifixit.com had a nice manual on how to "replace your AirCard" in the same model laptops you own. It's at this page, and it has a nice front and rear view of the card:

https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Mac/Ma...a-Late-2013-Airport-Bluetooth-Board/IF117-023

Interestingly, it's not the usual half-height miniPCIE card, but is the longer full-height mini-PCIe card version, so it probably would only work in laptops that can accommodate that size card (like Macs). It certainly would not work-- from a form-factor point of view only-- in any of the laptops I own, and I have 7 different ones at the moment, all PC-based from various manufacturers. And even if you could find a PC-based laptop that it would fit into, I was unable to find any drivers for it, and there seems to be a considerable amount of inquiry (based on Google results) from various users who complain that they cannot find drivers for the card that will work in any number of Linux distros or in Windows.


Nice to see though that it's available. What kind of real-world performance are you seeing from it? I also see that lots of people complain about unstable or unusuable 2.4ghz connections with these cards. How has your experience been using the AC-87U with this adapter?

Thanks for letting us non-Mac users know about it.

 

[SingerWang]

Nice. I was not aware that MacBook Pros used that card, or that it was even available as a laptop adapter. I know that the Asus PCE-AC62U uses it, but I was not aware it was used in any current laptop models. What's really interesting is that even Broadcom doesn't market this card for laptop applications; instead it is marketed solely for use in routers and cable modem gateways. (see http://www.broadcom.com/products/Wireless-LAN/802.11-Wireless-LAN-Solutions/BCM4360, and look at the tab "applications").

I did some additional research on it, and found that ifixit.com had a nice manual on how to "replace your AirCard" in the same model laptops you own. It's at this page, and it has a nice front and rear view of the card:

https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Mac/Ma...a-Late-2013-Airport-Bluetooth-Board/IF117-023

Interestingly, it's not the usual half-height miniPCIE card, but is the longer full-height mini-PCIe card version, so it probably would only work in laptops that can accommodate that size card (like Macs). It certainly would not work-- from a form-factor point of view only-- in any of the laptops I own, and I have 7 different ones at the moment, all PC-based from various manufacturers. And even if you could find a PC-based laptop that it would fit into, I was unable to find any drivers for it, and there seems to be a considerable amount of inquiry (based on Google results) from various users who complain that they cannot find drivers for the card that will work in any number of Linux distros or in Windows.

Nice to see though that it's available. What kind of real-world performance are you seeing from it? I also see that lots of people complain about unstable or unusuable 2.4ghz connections with these cards. How has your experience been using the AC-87U with this adapter?

Thanks for letting us non-Mac users know about it.

Interesting that you mentioned Windows. I know there is Windows drivers for it, but I do not believe there is Linux drivers for it. I have boot camp with Windows 7 Professional on the MacBook Pro, and it supports the wireless fine.

For the 2.4GHz, I don't really know as we have too many 2.4GHz devices already and I try to keep anything that can go on 5GHz to 5GHz. We have like a dozen 2.4GHz devices (GF's 3DS, Niece's 3DS, GF's Moto G 2014, my Nexus 7, GF's Nexus 7, Chromecast, Blu-Ray Player, NEST Thermostat, 4 NEST Protects, Samsung SmartTV, and Wii).

As for the 5GHz AC speed, I'm not finding much slow downs. I have a WD Passport Ultra (USB3) connected to the AC87U and I can do transfers of ~100MB/s when I am in the same room. When I copy from my Server/StoragePC which is wired in, I am doing ~90MB second.