router ap advice

[pritam]

Hi, I have just purchased a netgear WNDR3700 (N router) and have been partially disappointed by its performance in both 2.4ghz an 5ghz. My router is located in the basement (location can not be changed) and whenever I go to a room on the top floor I get many signal problems (dropped connection and slow speeds).

-With my older WRT54GS (G router) on tomato firmware I was able to have my whole house covered with no problems.
- After doing some research I found out that one way to boost signal would be to turn the WRT54GS into an access point. This would provide a boost to my G signals but wouldn't really help me connect at N speeds upstairs.
- Therefore, I was wondering if I could connect the WRT54GS in the basement as the main router and use the WNDR3700 upstairs as an access point. I have wired internet throughout my house. I would use the WNDR3700 in n-only mode. Since the n-access point will be connected with the g router using a wire, I am thinking that the speed upstairs will only be limited by the 10/100 wired connection. Still making things a lot faster upstairs.
- Also, almost all of my N-clients are upstairs so that is where I would need it most and I don't mind have low N-signals in the basement.

Could somebody please tell me if my logic works or am I missing something? I am thinking of using this way to connect until a better firmware is released for the WNDR3700.

 

[thiggins]

If your home is wired with Ethernet, why not just run Ethernet between your broadband modem and the router WAN port to whatever room you want the router in. Then run another Ethernet connection back down to your switch.

To directly answer your question, sure, you can convert any router to an access point and add it.
How To Convert a Wireless Router into an Access Point
How To Add an Access Point to a Wireless Router

 

[overdrive31]

You seem reluctant like most about giving up wireless N("It's why I bought it in the first place!"). I am willing to bet your signal woes are directly related to channel bonding(40MHz mode) which makes your router an noisy neighbor(using up 2/3's the spectrum), causing and suffering from interference. Try using just 20MHz(150mbps for MIMO clients) mode for wireless N, it's much more stable and you should gain back your wireless range/coverage, I personally think they should have never introduced channel bonding to 802.11N spec.

 

[stevech]

The 40MHz mode seems to not be clearly shown in the user interface. I think it says, instead, 300Mbps mode which we geeks know means 40MHz channel bonding oink-oink mode. And much more vulnerability to interference. Manual says this mode is the default in 5.8GHz but not in 2.4GHz.

Use of 40MHz is ignored of course for client devices that lack this premium-price product option.

 

[overdrive31]

The 40MHz mode seems to not be clearly shown in the user interface. I think it says, instead, 300Mbps mode which we geeks know means 40MHz channel bonding oink-oink mode. And much more vulnerability to interference. Manual says this mode is the default in 5.8GHz but not in 2.4GHz.

Yes, 300mbps mode is 2x MIMO(equals 150mbps) + 40MHz mode(another 150mbps, but is noisy) for a total of 300mbps. There is also non-MIMO(single antenna), 40MHz mode(total of 150mbps).

Use of 40MHz is ignored of course for client devices that lack this premium-price product option.

What you mean, a premium? The only difference in wireless N client hardware is MIMO or non-MIMO, not 40MHz or no 40MHz support. You must be referring to wireless A, B, and G equipment.

 

[pritam]

If your home is wired with Ethernet, why not just run Ethernet between your broadband modem and the router WAN port to whatever room you want the router in. Then run another Ethernet connection back down to your switch.

I was trying to figure out a way to do this but I only have 1 outlet going to each room from my switch. So if I connect my router upstairs, using an ethernet outlet, I wont have another outlet available to send the signal down to my switch.

I don't think the channel bonding is too much of an issue for me as I live on an acreage and don't have neighbors close enough to interfere. Just to be clear though, in order to stop channel bonding I would have to change the 5Ghz mode to 130mbps but I could leave the 2Ghz mode at 300mbps?

I had some time so I tried out the setup I was asking you guys about and found out that:
1. With my N-router acting as an AP in the new location upstairs, I can get a very clear signal throughout my house, even in 40mhz mode.
2. My transfer speeds between two laptops on the N band is ~3mbps. I could watch a 720p video but just barely.

As a result, I think I will try to buy a longer ethernet wire so I can connect my N router upstairs and send the signal downstairs (to my switch) using an ethernet connection in another room. After I do this, will I be able to setup my G-router next to my switch (which has 12 outlets but will be receiving internet from 1 outlet) in order to "split" the wired signal from the N-router upstairs? This would then allow me to connect multiple computers to any wired outlet using my switch.

Thanks for your guys advice so far.

 

[overdrive31]

Just turn off 40MHz mode, it's not needed and it "causes" instability and can interfere with most any wireless device(phones, bluetooth, mice/keyboard, headsets, or the microwave) with the exception of maybe 5GHz(with which has almost half the coverage of 2.4GHz). Only 3mbps(megabits per sec) between clients? Shouldn't that be higher for wireless N, or did you mean 3MBps(MegaBytes per sec)? Don't expect anything better than 720p over wireless anyhow.

 

[pritam]

Could someone please tell me how to turnoff 40mhz mode on the WNDR3700. Do I just put it to 130Mbps under 5Ghz mode?

Whenever I do this the speed shown on my "Wireless Network Connection Status" changes from ~240Mbps to `110Mbps. The signal quality remains high on both settings. Does this mean that my transfer speed will be that much slower?

 

[stevech]

Yes, in either 2.4 or 5.8GHz. restrict it to 140Mbps at most. Some products have a mode selection of 20 or 40MHz, but yes, I see that's a bit too geeky.

 

[overdrive31]

The 5GHz can stay on 40MHz mode if the link is <30 feet or so, the 2.4GHz should be run at 20MHz(think of how the old setup worked with wireless G, but you gain the improvement of MIMO which doubles throughput of the base N speed) to reduce the inherent environmental interference with so many appliances affecting that band frequency.

MIMO = Multiple In Multiple Out(more than one stream/antenna at a time) and in this example it's only 2x(two stream/antenna) MIMO

SGI = Short Guard interval

MIMO(N) 20MHz = 130Mbps(w/ SGI = 150Mbps)

non-MIMO(N) 20MHz = 65Mbps(w/ SGI = 72.2Mbps) = Wireless N base speed

MIMO(N) 40MHz = 270Mbps(w/ SGI = 300Mbps)

non-MIMO(N) 40MHz = 130Mbps(w/ SGI = 150Mbps)

The majority of "N" routers are MIMO as is the WNDR3700, so looking at the examples you only need to pay attention to the MIMO speed differences. The only time non-MIMO will effect you is if one of your wireless clients doesn't support MIMO and thus will reflect those speeds. For instance, if 4 out of 5 of your clients were connecting at 130Mbps when the router was using 20MHz, and the 5th one was only connecting at 65Mbps is because the other 4 support MIMO and the 5th one doesn't(meaning for MIMO to work, both router and client must support it and it's pretty much transparent or no software options to enable/disable). Can get pretty confusing, heh?

 

[stevech]

What you mean, a premium? The only difference in wireless N client hardware is MIMO or non-MIMO, not 40MHz or no 40MHz support. You must be referring to wireless A, B, and G equipment.

Not exactly. A client (laptop/USB) 11n WiFi capable of 40MHz mode with dual receivers and true "MRC" support is more costly and I called that a "premium" product. The product marketing and package marking really bamboozle the lay person.

 

[overdrive31]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.. All wireless N certified clients have 40MHz support as a given(NOT a premium), the clients with MIMO are a premium over the ones with only a single antenna. You have it backwards my friend. When compared to A, B, and G equipment, the 40MHz support may be considered a premium.