Router Suggestion for HDTV Video Streaming

[MarkDGaal]

Here is my predicament:

• I have just moved into condo whose wireless channels are extremely congested along the 2.4ghz band.
• I have a Linksys WRVS4400N Version 1
• Back in suburbia I reliably saw 60-70mbps on my 4400N while in the same room. This was enough to stream 720 and some lower mbit 1080 movies wirelessly to other devices.
• In my condo I'm lucky to see 45mbps in the same room. Because the 4400N only broadcasts 2.4ghz
• I also get frequent disconnects although this is partly a problem with the 4400N's version 1 (which Cisco has stopped supporting)

Here is what I wanna do:

• Buy the router that has the best possibility of being able to stream 1080 movies from my Home Theater PC to all other devices. If I can achieve a average of 80mbps and using the correct software buffering settings, I think I can do this.
• Because everyone is using 2.4ghz this will likely have to be done on the 5ghz band, now there is an issue with range.
• I've narrowed it down to the Netgear WNDR4000 and the Cisco e4200
• I do not believe that the cisco e4200 has the capability to function as a wireless repeater or works with any existing range extenders; however, because it doesn't have any blinking lights and is quite fashionable it wouldn't have to sit inside a cabinet like the WNDR4000 would.
• Now I have no doubt that the WNDR4000 can achieve adequate throughput while in the same room; (see this hard form user's experience) But the problem is... will I be able to extend that throughput using a 2nd WNDR4000 or another range extender more adequately than a cisco e4200 sitting outside of a cabinet. Moreover, will I be able to repeat both the 2.4ghz and 5ghz band SIMULTANEOUSLY; if so what repeater allows me to do that?
• My condo is not wired with cat5; there is no attic access, and fishing wires though aluminum studs doesn't seem fun; so wireless repeating is really the only option (I think?)

Thank you for your help ahead of time!

 

[MarkDGaal]

Also here is an email I received from Netgear regarding the WNDR4000s ability to repeat on both 2.4ghz and 5ghz.... I'm not sure if what they are saying is totally accurate:

"Dear Mark,

My name is Jay and I am following up on your support case.

The NETGEAR WNDR4000 wireless router can be use as a repeater which can extend the wireless signal of a certain WDS capable base station. Hence, if you are planning to use two The NETGEAR WNDR4000 wireless routers which one will act as a base station and another as a repeater, you can utilize the dual band capability for it. The said router can repeat two bands at the same time.

Apparently once the wireless repeating function of the NETGEAR WNDR4000 wireless router will be enabled, the 750Mbps throughput could not be achieve anymore. For NETGEAR devices, to initiate the WDS function or commonly called wireless repeating function, the encryption should be set only to WEP (Wired Equivalent Privacy). Moreover WEP encryption can provide a throughput of 54Mbps only. In relation of this fact to your concern, I am very sorry but doing a repeating function with the NETGEAR WNDR4000 wireless router will diminish the throughput you are most concern of.

Going back to your prime concern about a device that would extend the dual band signal of the NETGEAR WNDR4000 wireless router without having the throughput losing ground, as of now NETGEAR don’t have any device to support your request. The only the device that is closest to your inquiry in extending the wireless signal but not wholly diminishing the throughput is the NETGEAR WN2000RPT. However it is only for 2.4 GHz band."

 

[stevech]

HD TV streaming is only about 15Mbps. A 100BT LAN can do it well; a gigE LAN is a luxury and the router need not be gigE capable.

It's a good thing to put your HD traffic on a decent switch that is not inside the WiFi router. Sometimes those internal switches are poor, or packets are forwarded by the WiFi router's firmware when it should have had a switch chip.

I live in a condo, but not high density (more like a townhouse). There are a LOT of SSIDs around here, but none do streaming or heavy FTPs. But I stream HD 1080 on the cat5 LAN with the last segment going to the TV room being MoCA bridges. The capacity is up to 70Mbps net at the IP layer, and not being wireless, has no competition for airtime (media access), glitches or unpredictability.

So I suggest you look at using MoCA or HPNA rather than WiFi, for streaming video.

 

[MarkDGaal]

Unfortunately, Verizon or AT&T are not available in my building; I am restricted to Comcast in that respect.

 

[stevech]

Unfortunately, Verizon or AT&T are not available in my building; I am restricted to Comcast in that respect.

Confused: as to how those companies' services relate to the discussion here?

 

[MarkDGaal]

Confused: as to how those companies' services relate to the discussion here?

I am under the impression that MoCA/HPNA Routers would only work with certain ISPs is that not the case?

 

[stevech]

No, MoCA and HPNA are generic alternatives to ethernet switches and category 5 wiring. They take an ethernet RJ45 plug as input and output, and transport that via TV coax in the walls (MoCA) or home power wiring in the walls (HPNA). This is used when you just cannot run cat5 wiring due to logistics. Most often superior to WiFi/wireless because the medium is wire and there's not competition for air time with other WiFi and many non-WiFi transmissions floating in the ether. Technically, these are "layer 2 bridges", meaning they are brain-dead bit-chuckers and less vulnerable to protocol foul-ups as compared to routers and WiFi.

 

[Mangusta1969]

No, MoCA and HPNA are generic alternatives to ethernet switches and category 5 wiring. They take an ethernet RJ45 plug as input and output, and transport that via TV coax in the walls (MoCA) or home power wiring in the walls (HPNA). This is used when you just cannot run cat5 wiring due to logistics. Most often superior to WiFi/wireless because the medium is wire and there's not competition for air time with other WiFi and many non-WiFi transmissions floating in the ether. Technically, these are "layer 2 bridges", meaning they are brain-dead bit-chuckers and less vulnerable to protocol foul-ups as compared to routers and WiFi.

In the past, I believe MOCA was incompatible with DirecTV receiver/DVR signals, as both services overlapped on the same frequency band(s) on the coaxial cable. Has this conflict been resolved? I am not sure if Dish Network receiver/DVR signals have a similar RF conflict with MOCA.

 

[stevech]

The MoCA I purchased has an option for you to choose a frequency segment manually, and discusses how this can be used for coexistence if the satellite and MoCA must be on the same particular coax.
But not having satellite, I've not done this.

 

[thiggins]

Try a pair of HomePlugAV adapters. That way you avoid the DirecTV conflict issue entirely.

 

[stevech]

Try a pair of HomePlugAV adapters. That way you avoid the DirecTV conflict issue entirely.

Good advise. I'd also suggest, if using HPNA, to get these running, start a streaming 1080 video, then go around the house and fiddle with things that can cause power wiring noise and impact IP data flows:

- Florescent lights
- Light dimmers on 7/8, 1/8, esp. for the new CFLs
- Heating/cooling systems
- Some kinds of surge-suppression power plug strips if used in same outlet or branch circuit as HPNA

Odds are it'll be OK. But try these while the retailer's return policy is valid.

 

[thiggins]

HPNA is not HomePlug. It stands for HomePNA, which used to be a standard for networking over phone lines, but now includes phone lines and coax. It is an alternative to MoCA.

 

[MarkDGaal]

Fair warning MoCA or HPNA is something I've never dealt so forgive me if some of my questions are amateur.

I have the option to use coax or home phone lines so pros/cons or just simply "coax is better" would be nice to know.

Some suggestions on either the best MoCA or HPNA routers would probably help answer a lot of the questions that I currently have.

First question is a basic one; since the coax outlet feeds into the cable modem and then I would suppose that the cable modem connects to a MoCa router via cat5 and then the MoCA router outputs another coax cable. Does the MoCA cable then splice back into the original coax cable?

Are there any good Moca Routers that do wireless as well or should I just buy a separate wifi router to handle that?

 

[stevech]

MoCA/HPNA - these are low level bridges -used independently of your router.

Home phone lines: not used by these technologies.

MoCA over coax- you keep your current router. The MoCA devices just interconnect one of the ethernet ports on your existing router to the TV coax, then on the other end, another MoCA device converts the TV Coax back to ethernet. The MoCA device has two TV coax connectors arranges as a pass-through, so the TV signals pass through unaffected.
These are sold in pairs. Shopping around, you should get a pair for well under $100.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30821/51/
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122243&Tpk=moca

HPNA/HomePlug - is the same as MoCA, except that these devices plug into a 110VAC wall outlet or extension cord. Same concept: your router is unchanged.

Numerous vendors (more than for MoCA)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833156283
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122360
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833181127
and more.
These are random samples of vendors, not a ranking. See the MoCA/HPNA section of this forum.

 

[RogerSC]

Using MOCA here...

I'm using MOCA at my place, the Netgear ones. The cable out of the wall (feed from Comcast) goes through the MOCA adapter, and then into the cable modem. The MOCA adapter also connects to a port on your router for it's ethernet connection. So the MOCA adapter essentially puts your ethernet on your TV coax cables in your walls. It has nothing to do with routing, it's transparent to that, and is an alternative to wireless. You can still use wireless via your router at the same time that you are using MOCA, no problem.

You just connect a computer or a streaming media player, etc. to a remote MOCA adapter that's connected to a cable outlet and it'll get DHCP addresses from your router and will work fine, as though it was directly connected to your router. And you can use that ethernet anywhere where you have a cable TV coax output by putting an adapter there. I suspect that you could put an ethernet switch on a MOCA adapter as well so that multiple devices could be attached, but I haven't actually tried that yet.

Yes, the frequency that MOCA uses on the coax will overlap with satellite TV, but the original poster says that he has Comcast broadband, which is what I have, and MOCA is working well for me at my home.

I think that you may be able to work around the satellite TV problem by picking the frequency for the MOCA, and using diplexer splitters, but if I had satellite TV I'd try another solution for streaming media just because I don't like to waste time and energy swimming upstream *smile*.

 

[MarkDGaal]

Thank you all for your suggestions; after reading up on all of the available options, and because I know that my building uses commercial grade wiring in every room, I was going to go the HomePlug route.

However, I took another look at my telephone jacks while painting the bedroom and to my surprise they used Cat5e and just didn't hook up the other 4 wires. Moreover, digging around inside the outlet I found an extra run of Cat5e to every outlet where an rj11 was present. I then went to the closet where all the telephone connections terminate and I discovered (under the mass of coax cables) all the extra runs that have yet to be terminated. I guess the builder had the foresight to do extra runs of Cat5e but didn't have the budget to terminate them with keystones, a switch, or patch panels.

So looks like this is going to just turn into an exercise of terminating cable, purchasing a switch and relocation of my router to that closet.

In terms of the WiFi seeing that I can now use wired wireless bridges is my better option the WNDR4000 or e4200?