Smart connect settings for rooms with poor 5ghz signal

[Vertron]

There is a couple rooms in my house that is just out of reach of the 5ghz signal, but 2.4ghz still reaches. I currently have them separated but noticed there is extra settings in this router (AC86U) called smart connect rule.

Is there any way to configure it so it will use 5ghz almost all the time but switch to 2.4ghz if the signal gets low, then switch back as soon as the signal becomes strong enough again? If so what are the ideal settings? Or is best just to keep the separate? I had to separate them for my ISP router as it would keep devices on 2.4ghz all the time.

 

[Morris]

Choosing the band is done by the client, not the AP. Smartconnect is a fudge and can be quite frustrating

 

[Deldarius]

I disagree with Morris on this (no offense Morris) I have a similar issue that took some time (and a lot of colorful metaphors) to resolve.

Here are my settings that you can use as a template. Oh, on the Wireless-Professional tab, disable the Roaming Assistant. It screws with the Smart Connect.

 

[Morris]

Why do you have reversed values for Steering Triger Condition and STA Selection Policy?

Smart connect works by dropping a station's connection and appears to momentarily block connection to the band the client was on. Not all applications or people tolerate drops. This is why I call it frustrating. I call it a fudge as there is no drop when the client follows the IEEE standard and choses the change bands.

I have not used Smart Connect for a long time because:
- Wife dose not tolerate drops
- VOIP dose not tolerate drops
- Even when I prevent sensitive clients from steering, the other clients would sometimes get dropped, and then not connect till they were allowed back on the same band they were on

If it works for you that's great

 

[Deldarius]

The Steering Trigger Condition is set as such if the 5ghz signal is too weak or the 2.4ghz is really strong (inside my apartment so is the 5ghz.) then it will change over.

The STA Selection Policy is such to keep/move devices to the 5ghz provided the strength is good enough. If it isn't, over to the 2.4ghz it goes.

If the device is static and gets a solid 5ghz signal, then it isn't going to change. A mobile device may experience a drop (I have not noticed one long enough to cause an issue).

I have an 800sq ft apartment in a four tenet building that is 100+ years old. The signal acoustics are...interesting. My 5ghz will fill the apartment and no further. Enter the foyer and it degrades terribly. So the 2.4 kicks in and the wife can get solid signal on the stoop and in my on street parked car out front. Enter the apartment from the foyer and the 5ghz has taken over. Seamlessly.


Smart Connect is a fickle beast. The only way to know if it will work for you is to poke at it.

I am sorry it didn't pan out for you, Morris.

 

[Martinski]

The SmartConnect feature has acquired a lot of bad rap (and rightly so), and I believe this is mostly due to the several factors, such as:

1) Apparently several bugs were found in the first few versions of the feature when released by Broadcom.
I don't know whether all the known bugs have been fixed at this point, or what improvements (if any) have been made since the feature was initially introduced.

2) The lack of good, clear, user-friendly documentation from ASUS up to this point.
A user's guide that explains in plain language how the feature works, how to configure it, and how each parameter in the set of rules affects or changes the way the "Trigger Conditions" behave would be most useful and welcome. I'm not asking for a technical user manual here either; just a simple guide to be able to understand what each parameter does in the context of setting up the SmartConnect feature. Including some real-world use cases or common scenarios would greatly help here as well.

3) User misunderstanding & misconfiguration of the SmartConnect feature parameters.
This is simply a result of point 2) above, not entirely the fault of the user at all, IMO.

Based on my own personal experience with using SmartConnect off & on for the past 3 years, I can say that it has been a frustrating experience trying to come up with a configuration that works most of the time. Sometimes I have had a setup that seemed to work flawlessly for a few days and then, for some reason, functionality appears to degrade slowly, or it doesn't work at all, so I simply ended up disabling the feature. Three or four months later, out of curiosity again, I would try enabling the feature with a new "set of rules" that I believed "made sense" based on my new "interpretation" of what a trigger parameter might do, and it seemed to work - until it didn't.

Anyway, long story short, after many failed configurations, about 8 months I finally found a simple configuration that, so far, has worked pretty well within my own wireless environment and type of wireless clients. I'll share it here just in case someone may find it useful as a starting point for their own environment. I have used the same setup on two other ASUS routers belonging to family members, and so far they have not complained either.

 

[bbunge]

In spite of the diatribes here, Dual Band SmartConnect using Asus defaults does work!
Trust your router to choose the WiFi settings it needs.

 

[Martinski]

The Steering Trigger Condition is set as such if the 5ghz signal is too weak or the 2.4ghz is really strong (inside my apartment so is the 5ghz.) then it will change over.

Yeah, this makes sense based on my current understanding of how the "Steering Trigger Condition" rules work. They basically set the initial criteria which set the first stage to steering the client to a different wireless band.

The STA Selection Policy is such to keep/move devices to the 5ghz provided the strength is good enough. If it isn't, over to the 2.4ghz it goes.

This part is very puzzling to me. My current understanding of the "STA Selection Policy" rules is that they should pretty much reflect the same rules set in the "Steering Trigger" section since they essentially work in conjunction with that 1st criteria to determine if the client meets the conditions necessary to initiate band steering.

The way I read your trigger rules (again, based on my own experience & understanding) is the following (just focusing on the 2.4GHz band for now):

1) Steering Trigger Condition
If a client (STA "X") currently using the 2.4GHz band has an RSSI "greater than -70 dBm" (i.e. "from acceptable up to a great" signal strength), and all other parameters have a "don't care" setting, initiate a "trigger" state.

2) STA Selection Policy
If a client (STA "X") currently using the 2.4GHz band has an RSSI "less than -75 dBm" (i.e. "from barely adequate down to a dead zone" signal range), and all other parameters have a "don't care" setting, it gets selected for band steering.

3) Interface Select and Qualify Procedures
If the client (STA "X") meets both sets of rules from 1) & 2) above, it will be steered to join the 5GHz band if such band is not currently in use (Bandwidth Utilization is less than 0%); otherwise, the client will remain with the 2.4GHz band.

Based on the above setup, my take is that the RSSI rules conflict with each other. The client (STA "X") must have an RSSI "greater than -70 dBm" *and* "less than -75 dBm" to meet the criteria, which would be impossible.

Now, I will admit that I'm not an expert on this feature by any means, and I could certainly be wrong with my current understanding of how SmartConnect parameters interact with each other to trigger band steering. The learning curve continues.

If your current setup works well in your wireless environment, more power to you.

 

[Morris]

I've read the descriptions many times and my understanding matches @Martinski. Clearly one of our interpretations is incorrect.

Anyone considering smart connect or other steering methods should read this:

4 WiFi Band Steering Myths

Find out common misconceptions about the band steering technique used in dual-band WLANs.

www.networkcomputing.com

​

 

[Deldarius]

From that article, this is what my settings replicate:

Prefer 5 GHz connections: This mode involves specifying a threshold received signal strength indicator (RSSI) such that so long as the client device has an RSSI value above the threshold, the access point will preferentially encourage the client device to connect on the 5 GHz band. When the 5 GHz RSSI dips below the threshold, the client device will be allowed on the 2.4 GHz band. The challenge here is selecting an appropriate RSSI threshold. Set the threshold too high, and devices that really should be connecting on the 5 GHz band are actually connecting at 2.4 GHz. Set the threshold too low, and devices may be getting relatively poor performance on the 5 GHz band when they would get better performance on the 2.4 GHz band.

 

[Morris]

From that article, this is what my settings replicate:

Prefer 5 GHz connections: This mode involves specifying a threshold received signal strength indicator (RSSI) such that so long as the client device has an RSSI value above the threshold, the access point will preferentially encourage the client device to connect on the 5 GHz band. When the 5 GHz RSSI dips below the threshold, the client device will be allowed on the 2.4 GHz band. The challenge here is selecting an appropriate RSSI threshold. Set the threshold too high, and devices that really should be connecting on the 5 GHz band are actually connecting at 2.4 GHz. Set the threshold too low, and devices may be getting relatively poor performance on the 5 GHz band when they would get better performance on the 2.4 GHz band.

Did you notice the recommendation to use -80 DB for the 5-Ghz band? while they did not say it, -70 DB is best for the 2.4-Ghz band, at least in my experience on Campus networks and in my home.

Some should consider the load balancing option which works spreading the bandwidth of both bands to all clients. It depends on your goals

 

[Deldarius]

I played with the DB levels for quite some time and what I use is the sweet spot for me considering the acoustics of my apartment. Inside everything is where I want it, on the 5ghz. Outside I have no 5ghz signal and the 2.4 will suffice out to the car, 15ft from my door.
My neighborhood is so congested on the 2.4ghz it is really only useful outside. I average between 12-20 networks on the 2.4ghz inside the apartment strong enough to choke it out.

On the 5ghz end, pretty much everyone is camping on the high end of the spectrum (everyone uses Spectrum's garbage). The DFS channels are nigh unusable, the Police station is down the street, we have an aircraft approach lane overhead and amazon products won't touch them. My fire stick is hardlined because of the noise.

 

[Morris]

I played with the DB levels for quite some time and what I use is the sweet spot for me considering the acoustics of my apartment. Inside everything is where I want it, on the 5ghz. Outside I have no 5ghz signal and the 2.4 will suffice out to the car, 15ft from my door.
My neighborhood is so congested on the 2.4ghz it is really only useful outside. I average between 12-20 networks on the 2.4ghz inside the apartment strong enough to choke it out.

On the 5ghz end, pretty much everyone is camping on the high end of the spectrum (everyone uses Spectrum's garbage). The DFS channels are nigh unusable, the Police station is down the street, we have an aircraft approach lane overhead and amazon products won't touch them. My fire stick is hardlined because of the noise.

I have the same environmental challenges. Even 5-Ghz is starting to congest

 

[Gangy]

Please can someone help me understand what is going on here? I do not understand the purpose and mechanics of the configurations posted here at all.
I mean, if we measure the signal strength in dbm, dbm values are negative (-XXdbm), then I logically assume that If I want to set the rules on 5gHz band to kick all the clients with weak signal to 2.4GHz band, I should set both steering trigger and STA selection in the opposite way showcase here right? For example, if a clients RSSI is greater than like, -65, he should be kicked to 2.4GHz to have a better signal strength and more reliable connection, right? The settings showcased here use the numerical values in the opposite way, for example Deldariuses config says that if clients RSSI is less than -75, it should trigger steering. WHY?!!? Is not RSSI lower than -75 good signal strength and it should only trigger steering if the signal strength is weak, ergo RSSI greater than -75?

Id be very grateful if someone helps me to make sense out of this. In my household theres a lot of interference and the problem is that clients cling to 5GHz band even if their signal strength is weak which results in poor connections stability (high pings, occasional drops) when they should be kicked of 5GHz to 2.4GHz to maintan stable connection instead.

I have found all the written information on smart connect settings there is in english language and it seem literally noone knows how to set it correctly, as those values are all over the place when users showcase them, including the absurdities like the opposite value usage as I have explained earlier... I am completely lost.

Im including screenshot of my smart connect settings and the clients tab from my RT AX92U, as you can see there, my phone is still happily sitting at 5GHz with weak signal even tho it should be kicked off to 2.4GHz a long ago according to my rules, is this sh*t just bugged or am I doing something wrong?

//edit: yeah I know theres an attack vector to reveal MAC addresses from my screenshot right now, if youre willing to go through that work you can have em mate

 

[Deldarius]

A bit more info is needed to get a better picture of things.

1. What is the square footage of your domicile?
2. How many devices do you have? How many are Ethernet vs. wireless?
3. Is your router centrally located in the house? If it is not, see if it feasible to make is so. Proper router placement is quite important. An access point or extender may be needed to eliminate dead spots.
4. What are your Wifi settings? Proper channel settings come before smart connect.


Now let me look at your smart connect settings....

Oh my...

A case of less than / greater than.

Zero is the best dBM one could hope for. The closer you are to 0 the stronger the signal is. -29 is greater than -57 and -83 is less than -61.

For the Steering Trigger Condition the RSSI tells the router when to change the band.
In your case the 2.4Ghz will change bands when the RSSI is less then -55 (or weaker, -65 -> -75 -> -85...etc).

Then you have the 5Ghz initiate the change at -65 (or stronger, -55 -> -45 -> -35...etc).

You have overlap, nothing is going to move if the RSSI is between -55 to -65. The router is playing hot potato with itself.

Set the 2.4Ghz to Greater @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-1 to Less @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-2 to Less @ -65dBm

For the STA Selection Policy the Less/Greater are reverse of the trigger. This tells the router, that under the these conditions what band the device is to be moved to.

Set the 2.4Ghz to Less @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-1 to Greater @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-2 to Greater @ -65dBm

As far as the VHT for the 5Ghz-2 being set for AC only, that should be fine. I do not have a tri-band router, so YMMV.
The dBM's will need some tweaking dependent upon your specific environment.

Your Bounce Detect settings look a bit tight, those can get massaged after the RSSI is taken care of.

 

[Gangy]

A bit more info is needed to get a better picture of things.

1. What is the square footage of your domicile?
2. How many devices do you have? How many are Ethernet vs. wireless?
3. Is your router centrally located in the house? If it is not, see if it feasible to make is so. Proper router placement is quite important. An access point or extender may be needed to eliminate dead spots.
4. What are your Wifi settings? Proper channel settings come before smart connect.

Thank you, but we do not need to get into that, I have perfected everything else besides smart connect settings, I have found the best position for the router in my 2-story home (10 clients, all wireless) and every one of my 3 bands is sitting at a channel exclusively used by me (everyone around me has default router settings, as Ive found out that internet providers like to lock customers out of any relevant settings in the US if youre not using your own router).

You have overlap, nothing is going to move if the RSSI is between -55 to -65. The router is playing hot potato with itself.

Set the 2.4Ghz to Greater @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-1 to Less @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-2 to Less @ -65dBm

For the STA Selection Policy the Less/Greater are reverse of the trigger. This tells the router, that under the these conditions what band the device is to be moved to.

Set the 2.4Ghz to Less @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-1 to Greater @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-2 to Greater @ -65dBm

As far as the VHT for the 5Ghz-2 being set for AC only, that should be fine. I do not have a tri-band router, so YMMV.
The dBM's will need some tweaking dependent upon your specific environment.

Thanks a lot, I have set smart connect according to your description, well see how it does in the next few days.

Your Bounce Detect settings look a bit tight, those can get massaged after the RSSI is taken care of.

Yeah, thats on purpose as its a 2-story home and people like to go up and down the stairs a lot, while on the upper story the 5GHz signal is pretty spotty but 2.4GHz is fine plus there are some sudden interference bursts coming from god knows where (40+ SSID´s around me), I figured I set it this aggressively to ensure clients are on the best band most of the time.

Let me test your recommended config for some time and get back with my findings. Thanks a lot for now.

 

[ebolamonkey]

Thank you, but we do not need to get into that, I have perfected everything else besides smart connect settings, I have found the best position for the router in my 2-story home (10 clients, all wireless) and every one of my 3 bands is sitting at a channel exclusively used by me (everyone around me has default router settings, as Ive found out that internet providers like to lock customers out of any relevant settings in the US if youre not using your own router).

Thanks a lot, I have set smart connect according to your description, well see how it does in the next few days.

Yeah, thats on purpose as its a 2-story home and people like to go up and down the stairs a lot, while on the upper story the 5GHz signal is pretty spotty but 2.4GHz is fine plus there are some sudden interference bursts coming from god knows where (40+ SSID´s around me), I figured I set it this aggressively to ensure clients are on the best band most of the time.

Let me test your recommended config for some time and get back with my findings. Thanks a lot for now.

Verdict?

 

[L&LD]

MIA

 

[ebolamonkey]

A bit more info is needed to get a better picture of things.

1. What is the square footage of your domicile?
2. How many devices do you have? How many are Ethernet vs. wireless?
3. Is your router centrally located in the house? If it is not, see if it feasible to make is so. Proper router placement is quite important. An access point or extender may be needed to eliminate dead spots.
4. What are your Wifi settings? Proper channel settings come before smart connect.


Now let me look at your smart connect settings....

Oh my...

A case of less than / greater than.

Zero is the best dBM one could hope for. The closer you are to 0 the stronger the signal is. -29 is greater than -57 and -83 is less than -61.

For the Steering Trigger Condition the RSSI tells the router when to change the band.
In your case the 2.4Ghz will change bands when the RSSI is less then -55 (or weaker, -65 -> -75 -> -85...etc).

Then you have the 5Ghz initiate the change at -65 (or stronger, -55 -> -45 -> -35...etc).

You have overlap, nothing is going to move if the RSSI is between -55 to -65. The router is playing hot potato with itself.

Set the 2.4Ghz to Greater @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-1 to Less @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-2 to Less @ -65dBm

For the STA Selection Policy the Less/Greater are reverse of the trigger. This tells the router, that under the these conditions what band the device is to be moved to.

Set the 2.4Ghz to Less @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-1 to Greater @ -65dBm
Set the 5Ghz-2 to Greater @ -65dBm

As far as the VHT for the 5Ghz-2 being set for AC only, that should be fine. I do not have a tri-band router, so YMMV.
The dBM's will need some tweaking dependent upon your specific environment.

Your Bounce Detect settings look a bit tight, those can get massaged after the RSSI is taken care of.

I did the exact opposite of this by flipping the greater than in Steering Trigger Condition for RSSI from Greater to Less and STA Selection Policy for RSSI from Less to Greater and it worked perfectly fine to switch me to 5Ghz_2 for Wifi 6 with my threshold being set at -75dBm instead of -65dBm as specified in the post above.

However, according to the article linked: https://www.digitalcitizen.life/asus-smart-connect/

"The STA Selection Policy settings are used to select the clients that are going to be steered to another band when the Steering Trigger Conditions set earlier are met. The STA Selection Policy settings are somewhat redundant and should be set to the same values as the Steering Trigger Conditions."

Therefore, I've reconfigured my router and now the STA Selection Policy mirrors the Steering Trigger Condition:

Still working just fine! Still testing though because not all clients who met the steering criteria is on Wifi6 and it's kind of bothering me... More to follow.

[Update]

Found a SNB manual on this very topic: https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wir...s-rt-ac3200-smart-connect-the-missing-manual/
Going to take a look and configure accordingly. More STAs should be steered towards the 5Ghz_2 Wifi6 band on my AX92U but they are not... Weird!

 

[degrub]

don't forget that the client device controls when the switch happens. All the AP can do is nudge.