Soho Network Setup

[slim shady]

So, im need a liitle help for setting up my office network.
So there are almost 65 users and 8 cameras and one copy machine.

Now i need a little help in how to set them up. So out of 65 users only 25-30 need the access to internet and all 65 users have to be interconnected on lan.

So connecting everyone is the easy part (i think), a switch to connect all the users pc via cat 6 to the switch so everyone can share the files and the tough part (i think) is giving internet access to only 30 users + a wifi network.

What all equipment shall i need and how to configure, can anyone help me ?

P.S Oh yes i need only gigabit transfer no need of 10gig stuff.

 

[L&LD]

So you want to block out the 35 to 40 users from having access to the internet then? But have everyone be able to use networked resources? While keeping the cameras away from snooping too?

Does this sound like its a little above your capabilities? Maybe it's time to call a professional?

 

[coxhaus]

You can do this real easy with a Cisco small business router and switch, maybe switches it depends on the location. You will also need some Cisco wireless APs based on location. The real work will be on the router and switch. It does take some skill, maybe 3 hours of time if you have the cabling and infrastructure in place.

What are they currently running? My daughter's business she bought was running off an old 8 year old Linksys router with no support.

Oh, and SOHO network is probably not right. Small business with 65 people is more right. Are they all in 1 room or wing?

You will probably want a guest network when people come visit. You will not want them on the main LAN.

 

[ColinTaylor]

Does this sound like its a little above your capabilities? Maybe it's time to call a professional?

@slim shady I'd agree that you should give serious consideration to using a professional service. Whilst experimenting on your home network as a learning exercise is one thing, setting up a reliable and secure business network for 65+ users is another. What happens if it doesn't work properly or the performance isn't as good as you thought it would be? Are you going to ask for help on these forums and put your business on hold whilst hoping for a reply?

You can do this real easy with a Cisco small business router and switch, maybe switches it depends on the location. You will also need some Cisco wireless APs based on location. The real work will be on the router and switch. It does take some skill, maybe 3 hours of time if you have the cabling and infrastructure in place.

What are they currently running? My daughter's business she bought was running off an old 8 year old Linksys router with no support.

Oh, and SOHO network is probably not right. Small business with 65 people is more right. Are they all in 1 room or wing?

The difference between this and the OP is they had a professional design it and set it up for them (i.e. you), and it was a much smaller network.

 

[coxhaus]

I agree if he is an employee he might get away with it. If he is a contractor he is going to get sued big time. I do not believe he has the skills either but I answered his question.

 

[ColinTaylor]

I agree if he is an employee he might get away with it. If he is a contractor he is going to get sued big time. I do not believe he has the silks either but I answered his question.

I wasn't criticising your answer or his question. I just wanted him to realise that there's more to consider than just what equipment to install when it comes to business solutions. Obviously we don't know any details of his situation, but sometimes it's just more sensible to get someone else to do it.

 

[slim shady]

Ayy, the replies, it hurts.Well thankfully im not a contractor, im zee owner (pun intended).No im just looking out for family since im an it guy but an amateur at networking.I wanna know the best route to go on so im not gouged by the contractors or if its simple enough to set it myself, cause i can get the hardware for good pricing as compared to market rates like 10-15%.


@coxhaus no im an amateur at best in it.Yes we are all on one floor around 3500 sqft.So in my mind i was thinking maybe two managed switch (googlefu shows largest is 52port switch,correct me if im wrong), to connect all the users (just plain lan setup with shared drives assigned to each pc for all 65 users and internet for 30 users + wifi + camera system). Thoughts on this ?

Basically if this sort of thing is tough to set up then i will just get a prof. guy but either way i need some recommendations on what sort of equipment and how it should be mapped, so that i can negotiate better with prof. guys.

We are mostly aiming for a leased fiber line with 100 up/down for the net and for the lan 1 gigabit network is enough.

P.S Not in the U.S

For current setup shall reply in a few hours as im out right now, but the net is 100 up/down and lan is gigabit ethernet

 

[L&LD]

Ayy, the replies, it hurts.Well thankfully im not a contractor, im zee owner (pun intended).No im just looking out for family since im an it guy but an amateur at networking.I wanna know the best route to go on so im not gouged by the contractors or if its simple enough to set it myself, cause i can get the hardware for good pricing as compared to market rates like 10-15%.


@coxhaus no im an amateur at best in it.Yes we are all on one floor around 3500 sqft.So in my mind i was thinking maybe two managed switch (googlefu shows largest is 52port switch,correct me if im wrong), to connect all the users (just plain lan setup with shared drives assigned to each pc for all 65 users and internet for 30 users + wifi + camera system). Thoughts on this ?

Basically if this sort of thing is tough to set up then i will just get a prof. guy but either way i need some recommendations on what sort of equipment and how it should be mapped, so that i can negotiate better with prof. guys.

We are mostly aiming for a leased fiber line with 100 up/down for the net and for the lan 1 gigabit network is enough.

P.S Not in the U.S

For current setup shall reply in a few hours as im out right now, but the net is 100 up/down and lan is gigabit ethernet

The 'replies' are asking some important and pertinent questions. Please take the time to answer them fully when you get the chance.

Without seeing how the office is laid out, two switches are too little.

I would be using all the ports available on the main router and connecting smaller switches to these ports instead.

How important is it that around 40 specific users have no internet access? Do the computers/devices there not need to be kept updated and secured (internet required)? Even if they are just interfacing with other computers that are on the internet, they need to be kept updated regularly too.

Keeping those users off the internet is easier to implement via group policies, IMO. Rather than involving the network configuration needlessly and at a much higher cost and complexity which will be ongoing.

An RT-AC3100 or an RT-AC5300 with 4x 24 Port GbE switches (or an RT-AC88U with 8x 12 Port GbE switches) will easily service the scenario above and have room to grow. Including WiFi for staff and guests (here; I'm assuming very limited WiFi clients concurrently connected; less than 20).

Anything appreciably above this hardware will need not only professional installation and considerably higher cost hardware, but more than likely a monthly service contract too for very little additional security or more reliable uptime than what I recommend above.

Of course, it also depends on the industry this office is in. The higher cost hardware/set-up and additional ongoing support may be mandatory depending on the sensitivity of the data collected and used.

Waiting to see your further response(s).

 

[coxhaus]

I would not setup an office for 65 users as a free for all network. Are you going to have servers, phones or etc.?

If everybody is not on the internet then there must be something going on in the business to require a PC. When your business that is centralized not internet based then you will want a layer 3 switch to keep the LAN traffic running fast.

A guest network will be required. You will not want everybody on the business LAN. It would be really bad security. Wireless networks are very slow so you will want to isolate the wireless networks to the outside networks not slowing down the high speed core servers.

Since it is going to require multiple switches then the best will be stacking switches. Second best will be 10gig uplinks. Do not use 1 gig ports to connect your switches as it will create a bad bottle neck in your network.

Your servers would best be setup with a high speed core which can serve all users. This will require VLANs and multiple networks. Phones will need priority. I am sure there is more but without seeing it nothing comes to mind right now. This is based on a business model. If you are a coffee shop then requirements are much less as everything is based on the speed of the internet.

Using SOHO routers is a very bad idea.

 

[abailey]

I agree with the other replies. If your not careful you could spend alot of money and end up with a solution that does not work for you. I would recommend professional help. If that is out of the budget then make sure to describe your network, devices, and even type of business the best you can. Do you have multiple onsite servers? Do you use IP Phones? Do you have any cloud services? Do the users you want to block from the internet use multiple devices? Do they ever share devices with those that can see the internet? Anyway the more info you can provide the better.

 

[slim shady]

sorry for the delay amd thank you for the overwhelming support.
as for the replies part a little fun i guess, but i do understand it.

okay current setup
dlink dgs 1024d
sonic wall tz300
cisco linksys e1200

I shall reitirate my requirements :
first a lan for all 65 users so thay are able to share files.thats it

second internet access for 20-30 users and thats it.
we provide work phones so personal stuff is not allowed.

a firewall solution to block half the internet for internet users.(sonicwall)

last a wifi network

cameras are separatly attached to dvr and monitor but not too sure about the camera setup.

actually the present vendor is a very okayish guy, not very technically sound ,that is why im taking the matters into my own hands.

And no thats it.No other services or requirement.
No voip or any special cloud service.

Im thinking something for backup but dont know how complicated or expensive it will be.

For updates i just push though offline windows update deployment.

p.s yeah an architectural firm

 

[L&LD]

I'll let others answer your other questions, but backup should be very high on your list.

It isn't too complicated, but it will be expensive. I'll estimate in the range of 10x what the base network set up you require, at a minimum. That would be at least 2x or 3x NAS (QNAP is what I recommend), backing up each other, and each serving half or a third of the users on the network. Minimum 6 Bays and 8GB RAM too, if they'll actually be used as file servers. If just backing up each desktop, you can back off a little on those requirements, but not too much (if you want to be able to grow with the hardware as is for a while). I would not recommend a single NAS in any scenario.

 

[coxhaus]

How do you protect your drawings? This needs to be done.

The router needs replacement. The Sonic wall is probably what is saving you. It sure must be weird to have your wireless outside of your Sonic wall. You need your infrastructure behind your firewall. Buy some wireless APs. I would think moving drawings and backups would cause problems with 1 gig up links. Hopefully your CAT wire can handle 10 gig on short distances for uplink ports only. If not replace, distances must be short since you are all in one wing. Users should still be 1 gig connected just uplinks need to be 10 gig. I would run the core switch in layer3 mode. The other switches can run layer2. This will help with sharing files across the local LAN.

I would use servers over NAS so you can have redundancy. If you loose a server your firm needs to still function. A Microsoft domain will handle where any server can fail but the domain still runs. This will cost but your drawings are the life blood of your firm. I would use Microsoft. But that's me. Keep all software up to date so ransomware has no chance of getting you. The servers can be connected with 2 one gig Lagg ports unless your business requires more then use 4 one gig Lagg ports.

I would keep using your Sonic wall behind your router with your wireless inside your firewall. They are better firewalls than just routers. You need a guest network and decisions on how to handle outside users devices. Do they benefit the firm? Then setup security. The guest network can run parallel on the same wireless APs. If you create a guest VLAN then you can add temporary ports for conference rooms and such for outside presentations.

I would use Cisco small business routers, switches and wireless gear. But that is me again.

This project has now grown more than 3 hours of work.

 

[L&LD]

coxhaus, I think 3 hours is very conservative. Getting the hardware physically installed will be the easy part.

Running the new hardware and configuring the new software/logic in parallel with the old system to fully test it for stability, reliability and full functionality will take another week, at a minimum.

I'd rather overestimate my time and be done early (reflected in a reduction of billed hours, of course) than promise them something quickly and have to walk away from a network that was half-baked.

The 'week' I'm talking above is not a 5x 8hr gig either! Just the minimum time period I would like to oversee how the network was responding as the load was gradually increased and the backups and other tasks were being performed as designed.

If you could set this up in 3 hours and be 100% confident of the reliability of the network? My hat is off to you!

 

[coxhaus]

I think you miss-read my last statement. I think the project is now 2 to 4 weeks of work depending on cabling after buying the equipment. I was trying to say the project is a lot bigger now that we have more facts. It could still be bigger based on unknow facts.

PS
The clients and what they are running will probably add to the project. More than likely they will be outdated and need attention, maybe new software. You can eat up a lot of time upgrading 65 machines.

When I took over running IT at my daughter's business I refused to upgrade her old workstations. It did not cost much more than to replace all her 15 clients machines than to buy new software for old hardware. This was a no brainer, replace the hardware because the Microsoft license was cheaper on new hardware than buying it for old hardware. She wanted a 5 year plan and I told her the old workstations were not going to make it 5 years even if I upgraded the software. So I have bought 15 new workstations with Windows 10.

 

[L&LD]

I think you miss-read my last statement. I think the project is now 2 to 4 weeks of work depending on cabling after buying the equipment. I was trying to say the project is a lot bigger now that we have more facts. It could still be bigger based on unknow facts.

PS
The clients and what they are running will probably add to the project. More than likely they will be outdated and need attention, maybe new software. You can eat up a lot of time upgrading 65 machines.

When I took over running IT at my daughter's business I refused to upgrade her old workstations. It did not cost much more than to replace all her 15 clients machines than to buy new software for old hardware. This was a no brainer, replace the hardware because the Microsoft license was cheaper on new hardware than buying it for old hardware.

Whew! I did misread your statement! I was off by a lot!

Yes, I too am assuming above that everything is tickity-boo when we walk inside to do 'our' thing.

It never is. Always one surprise after another!

 

[slim shady]

sry for the delay, @coxhaus we are shifting to a new place and im in charge of it.That is why im also overhauling all the it equipment.I understand that this is sort of above my skill set.If you can help me with the basics like what equipment should be there, then i have a better chance of laying it properly in tandem with a professional.

First can the old dlink switch be used or it needs to be thrown out.
Second cat 7 or cat 6a.

For such case as in mine what does cisco cost if you have any or a ballpark, i have heard that cisco is very expensive or any alternatives to cisco ?
What do you mean specifically in parlance to server, should i get a cloud storage service or host a server in the office ? can you please clear this up.
For firewall what is better sonicwall or cisco or any other alternative ?
Now for data backup what is best way for redundancy ? nas or a proper server setup with all the data
Can you help me with a network map so im not caught like a deer in lights when discussing with vendors like cisco/juniper ?


P.S I know i should discuss all this with professionals but people are more interested in selling then actually providing a proper solution at my place. I dont want to end paying for services or equipment i dont need.

 

[sfx2000]

If one needs to move things around internally - consider the link-local ranges... link local can talk to each other on a LAN segment, but these ranges are not routable to the public internet - link-local is useful for more than just autoconfig.

IPv4 - 169.254.0.0/16
IPv6 - fe80::/10​

Set up two VLAN's, one for the link-local, and one for the routable devices on the following IPv4 ranges

192.168.0.0/16
172.16.0.0/12
10.0.0.0/8​

Just be mindful that with IPv6, anything that is not in fe80::/10 is routable - so to simplify things, one can disable IPv6 at the gateway/edge router...

BTW - this is exactly how DirecTV sets up my DVR and Remote Genies - the Genies get Link-Local, and the DVR gets dual homed for internet access for on-demand TV content.

BTW2 - gigE doesn't need more than CAT5, so don't spend more on cabling there - 3500sq feet, nothing is out of the range of CAT5

 

[coxhaus]

What does the wiring closet look like? Is there more than one?

The Dlink switches what are the up ink ports? One gig for uplink is not enough bandwidth for 65 people. Can the DLink switch do Lagg and VLANs? You might be able to use them for satellite switches. The DLink switches may require more LAN drops since they can not do 10 gig. So this would be an extra cost to factor in vs new switches. The core switch needs to be a layer 3 switch I prefer Cisco. The Cisco small business gear is not expensive as Cisco's pro gear. I would use a Cisco RV340 router as that is what I prefer. It cost me $151 when I bought mine in the US. I have no idea what internet service you have but a RV340 should be able to replace an old Linksys router. I would think CAT 6a should cover any 10 gig uplinks. I am not sure there is a reason to use less then CAT6a now days for new cabling. For clients CAT5e is fine. For wireless I would use any of the Cisco wireless APs. They are very simple to setup. I currently use 3 at my home running only 5 GHz.

I think for the firewall the Sonic wall should be fine especially since you are familiar with it. Whether cloud services are an option is based on your internet upload speed. You need high bandwidth for upload for 65 people with cloud services. I am thinking Google fiber. I am old school. I would use 2 servers with Windows server on them. I would load 4 big drives no RAID in each server not counting the OS drive. Not using RAID will save a lot of cash. Big drives and RAID are not great. I would split 1/2 the load across 2 big drives in each server. The extra drives would be used for backup from the other server. This way each server backs up the other server. If you use a logon script with mapped drives then all you have to do incase of server failure is change the logon script to point all users to the four drives on 1 server until the other server is repaired. Setup a robocopy job to mirror the backups so only the deltas need to be backed up. Using robocopy will maintain working backup drives which can be used incase of failure. This is all that comes to mind right now.

 

[sfx2000]

One gig for uplink is not enough bandwidth for 65 people.

Yes, it's more than enough...

Back when one of the companies I worked for - we had two DS3 (53Mbit) lines that served over 500 employees - we bumped the links up a bit to OC12 - which is 622Mbps, and that was enough for all comms - internet and dial-tone to desk phones for over 2K users

People tend to overestimate what they need...