Synology drives only (DS1522+) - OUCH!

[Sky]

I'm looking to replace my NAS, while keeping the old one around for backups. At the top of my list was the DS1520+, which seemed the one to buy until I heard the DS1522+ is expected this year. Then, I thought the latter would be better -- two years' more software maintenance -- but looking at the spec sheet, Synology will fully support it only with Synology hard drives. This seems to be a gouging move, as they are priced at about twice the reputable competition (WD Gold, WD Red Pro, Seagate Ironwolf Pro). So now, I'm thinking (especially as I have drives on hand), I'd be better off with the older model.

Thoughts? Comments? Am I missing anything? What do other Synology users think about this money grab?

Thanks!

In reality it's not quite like that. They will fully support the NAS, but if an issue comes down to one or more of the drives themselves, they back away. That makes sense since the drive-proper support needs to come from the drive vendor/manufacturer.

You can use third-party drives and not sacrifice any support if you buy drives off of their compatibility list. Those drive-firmware-NAS combinations have been tested and shown reliable. You have to be careful here. What was tested and shown compatible in say a DS918+, is not necessarily compatible with a DS920+, and vice versa. Also, just because drive brand-model-fw 123.123 is compatible with the NAS you are using, does not mean drive brand-model-fw 123.125 is going to be compatible. <<— really important!

*If* you spend the extra $ to buy their drives, then they support the drives, they ensure the firmware updates work, and … drumroll … they will ship you replacement gear up front and await the return of your bad gear. Advance shipping on RMA's is no small thing. So yes, their drives are expensive, but they include a lot of value-add.

Sky

 

[Sky]

Synology Extended Warranty
This is a "new" offer from Synology, so you can purchase now and add (at additional cost) an extra two years of coverage. When new model is released, and last years model is suitable for you, then buy old model with extended warranty.
Regarding the Upgrade Path/Cost:
I bought my NAS and 4-10TB WD Reds new, yet bought Synology memory Like New from Amazon at 1/2 the original price. I did the same with 2-512GB Samsung 970 EVO Nvme sticks. All memory and drives are Synology approved so no warranty issues, if needed.
Recently Synology has taken a Dark Side approach towards HDD and memory approval. I noticed in a Synology forum, more members are getting "Non-Supported Drive" "Drive Critical" warnings with hdds.

@Tech Junky with his "I put in a 5GE Ethernet card and can pull 400MB/s + off the "NAS"
does stomp the heck out of my puny built-in 1Gbe, but Synology might play catch-up in the next round, and include faster connectivity? Although, that is what many hoped for and didn't get in the *20 models.

They don't show much of a hint at catching up, either with USB3 Gen 2 or 5/10Gbe. Even their '22 stuff that is upgradeable for Ethernet is only 2.5Gbe and that with an optional extra price card.

The warnings are annoying to be sure. They've died down a lot with DSM 7.1-42261 and Syno has backed off being so "in your face" about this stuff. They were scaring a lot of people when what they were really trying to say was simply, "If you have a problem with a third-party item, you'll have to talk to them for support.".

I would not expect Ford to support Chevrolet's stuff and see no difference here.

I bundled my NAS into a PC DIY build to getaway from this sort of thing a few years ago. It comes down to convenience and flashy UI if that's what you're looking for.

This really is a great way to go for a lot of people, if you can make it work. For me it's a non-starter because I have to leave a what amounts to a complex system that can be effectively managed in-house by other people who probably will be less technically-inclined than even my limited ability. It's more than disc storage; it's also web hosting, email hosting, remote access, multi-site functionality, etc., all on a razor-thin budget. For my purposes, I don't think anyone holds a candle to Synology's software that can be "immediately stepped into and taken over with minimal pain" — today. Tomorrow? Who knows?

 

[Sky]

@Mike-48

Found a comparison of the DS1522 v DS1520

NAS Compares has some really great info and videos on all of these. I just sped through one today on the DS920+ vs Terramaster F4-423

 

[Sky]

@Clark Griswald

Benefits of DIY is…

You are absolutely right in all of this of course. I did the very same thing in essentially the very same way around '97-'98, but things changed. The use case became a lot more complex and as I have aged our access to competent personnel able to step in and take over has diminished as those inroads and contacts were mine and they too have aged-out.

In ways it feels like the old days of hotrodding a 1918 Ford giving way to today's EV's. I miss the old stuff, but the new toys have their places too.

Time to pull out the '39 Cad and go for a ride,

 

[Sky]

I did the same with 2-512GB Samsung 970 EVO Nvme sticks.

How are those sticks working out for you? I have 4-EVO960 SSDs in a DS920+ and they are solid. I tried shoving some 4-EVO 970 SSDs into another new DS920+ a few months back. All four of them failed solidly dead… D-E-D within 90-days. That's when I learned the nuances of their "compatibility lists". Ouch!

 

[Clark Griswald]

No issues with EVO 970
I placed in my 918+ from beginning, so I don't have any comparison to NAS performance prior to cache upgrade.

 

[Mike-48]

You can use third-party drives and not sacrifice any support if you buy drives off of their compatibility list.

When I looked at the compatibility list for the DS1522+, it contained only Synology-branded drives. That's my concern, since I already own 3d party drives I want to use.

 

[Tech Junky]

@Sky
DIY isn't for every use case but, it's a better deal. For all of the functions you're using it for

also web hosting, email hosting, remote access, multi-site functionality, etc.,

This can all be done w/ Linux it's just not going to work for dumb people that have been raised on MSFT.

Everyone / every situation is different in the needs they want to accomplish. For a single site w/o the enterprise / business stuff it's easy to roll. If you get a freelance Linux head to handle change requests it shouldn't be that big of a deal though to setup and run. Maintenance is minimal compared to MS. If you dig into systems / companies that have an online presence the underlying box is linux the majority of the time. Most servers have bare metal linux + virtualized servers on top of it. Most of the networking gear once you strip the overlay from it is running linux as well. Even a Mac is linux under the pretty facade.

 

[Mike-48]

In reality it's not quite like that. They will fully support the NAS, but if an issue comes down to one or more of the drives themselves, they back away. That makes sense since the drive-proper support needs to come from the drive vendor/manufacturer.

You can use third-party drives and not sacrifice any support if you buy drives off of their compatibility list. Those drive-firmware-NAS combinations have been tested and shown reliable. You have to be careful here. What was tested and shown compatible in say a DS918+, is not necessarily compatible with a DS9920+, and vice versa. Also, just because drive brand-model-fw 123.123 is compatible with the NAS you are using, does not mean drive brand-model-fw 123.125 is going to be compatible. <<— really important!

*If* you spend the extra $ to buy their drives, then they support the drives, they ensure the firmware updates work, and … drumroll … they will ship you replacement gear up front and await the return of your bad gear. Advance shipping on RMA's is no small thing. So yes, their drives are expensive, but they include a lot of value-add.

Sky

Thanks, Sky. I might consider S. drives if I didn't own drives already (WD Gold and Seagate IronWolf Pro). Happy to say, the compatibility list for the DS1522+ has expanded since I first posted. Sorry to say, it includes lower-grade WD and Seagate drives, but not the ones I own.

 

[NXIL]

I would not expect Ford to support Chevrolet's stuff and see no difference here

except Ford and Chevy take Interstate and Die Hard batteries, and Goodyear and Bridgestone and Michelin tires, etc

choice is a good thing

 

[flyboynm]

I'm looking to replace my NAS, while keeping the old one around for backups. At the top of my list was the DS1520+, which seemed the one to buy until I heard the DS1522+ is expected this year. Then, I thought the latter would be better -- two years' more software maintenance -- but looking at the spec sheet, Synology will fully support it only with Synology hard drives. This seems to be a gouging move, as they are priced at about twice the reputable competition (WD Gold, WD Red Pro, Seagate Ironwolf Pro). So now, I'm thinking (especially as I have drives on hand), I'd be better off with the older model.

Thoughts? Comments? Am I missing anything? What do other Synology users think about this money grab?

Thanks!

I haven't read the entire thread yet but you can modify a file to get it to WD Gold, WD Red and IronWolf drives to work with it. A friend of mine loaded his DS3622xs+ with IronWolf Pro drives.

 

[Sky]

it is called G.A.S.
Gear Acquisition Syndrome

I'm still struggling with Step-1, admitting I am powerless over the GAS

 

[Sky]

except Ford and Chevy take Interstate and Die Hard batteries, and Goodyear and Bridgestone and Michelin tires, etc

choice is a good thing

Agreed!

 

[Mike-48]

I guess I've not followed up with my results. I bought the DS1522+ and installed the WD Gold and Seagate IronWolf Pro drives I already owned. All went without incident; everything works fine. When it's time to replace the drives, I'll consider using Synology-branded drives or others from the approved drives list.

 

[Sky]

I guess I've not followed up with my results. I bought the DS1522+ and installed the WD Gold and Seagate IronWolf Pro drives I already owned. All went without incident; everything works fine. When it's time to replace the drives, I'll consider using Synology-branded drives or others from the approved drives list.

I've been poking the compatibility list off and on the last several months. They do seem to have gotten a lot better about it all; that shot they took across the bow was… less than bright for the SOHO/consumer customers. Their large commercial customers doubtless already buy their branded stuff because that's how all the liability flows work.

One thing not mentioned is FW updates to the drives. Synology handles these through their routine maintenance and update releases on their drives. Updating 3rd party drives is a whole 'nother issue they don't touch.

From what I've been seeing Synology takes (or has specially made to their specs) drives from another mfg, whose ID immediately escapes me, adds their own tweaks to the FW, adds built-in ability to update the FW on-the-fly while in-service and running in their device, adds their own telephone support, adds their own online support, adds replace-first-then-return with RMA drives for any bad drives, and adds their warranty terms (most drives have what, 90-days?).

That's a pretty decent value-add. Whether or not it's enough to justify the price they charge is a matter of personal circumstances for each individual consumer.

Sky

 

[Mike-48]

warranty terms (most drives have what, 90-days?).

Sky, I agree that it's a reasonably good value add from Synology. A couple of little points, though:

1. Enterprise NAS disks I've seen generally come with a 5-year warranty; lesser-grade NAS drives, with a 3-year warranty.
2. Firmware updates . . . an interesting point. During my years of using small computers (since the IBM PC AT), no drive I've owned has ever required a firmware update. Not to say it never happens, but AFAIK it's not an everyday occurrence.

I can see why Synology would rather sell the whole system than just a chassis . . . both for commercial purposes and to consolidate reliability concerns. Both are legitimate reasons. IBM got out of the chassis business for small computers. Apple, who controls the whole shebang, have become one of the world's most valuable companies.

 

[Sky]

1. Firmware updates . . . an interesting point. During my years of using small computers (since the IBM PC AT), no drive I've owned has ever required a firmware update. Not to say it never happens, but AFAIK it's not an everyday occurrence.

Mike-48, the systems I cover now are all 2½" SSDs, save the aged Apple iOS stuff. The endpoint pro-consumer SSDs get FW updates about every 14-18 months and have for the last several years. I don't recall ever updating FW on HDDs, in endpoints or mass storage, but change happens. Interestingly, while we run the same SSD make & models in one NAS, those never get fw updates, doubtless because updating them in the NAS is not supported either by Synology or the manufacturer.

I can see why Synology would rather sell the whole system than just a chassis . . . both for commercial purposes and to consolidate reliability concerns. Both are legitimate reasons. IBM got out of the chassis business for small computers. Apple, who controls the whole shebang, have become one of the world's most valuable companies.

Our current use case favors advance shipment of replacement parts with post-repair RMA return. That dictates paying Synology to absorb that risk through buying their branded stuff.

Reverse 12-months and it was different. We could tolerate a looser approach of either (a) more downtime or (b) purchasing replacement repair parts up front, shipping bad parts back, and waiting on the come for the manufacturer to test and agree the returned part is bad then issuing a refund that may or may not cover the cost of the purchased part.

I suspect Synology's advance ship RMA will include an upfront charge or credit authorization, but the whole 'on the come' thing disappears, my successor(s) have a simpler time of it, and my bosses feels all warm and fuzzy.

Apple — proof positive that sex sells.

 

[flyboynm]

You can modify a file on the Synology to add your drives to it. Did it on a DS3622xs+ this last summer.

 

[HellDiver]

Synology's drives are just Toshiba drives with a different model identifier and label. Mostly they're Toshiba N300.