The issues with AiMesh

[aurizn]

I have been using AiMesh on over many AiMesh models for the past year and I would like to share some thoughts on AiMesh. Opinions are my own. Discussion welcomed.

Lack of proper roaming support
AiMesh does not support any of the 802.11 roaming standard. ASUS is relying on their roaming framework which in reality doesn't work well. It takes 500-1000ms to roam to an AiMesh node if you are lucky with some packet drop most of the time. This is certainly not seamless and definitely not able to keep a VOIP call connected. While roaming decision will depend on the client, the addition of 802.11 k/v/r support will make everything much better for supported devices.

Poor Cross Model Compatibility
While being cross model compatible is a huge AiMesh selling point, the compatibility is terrible when different models are involved. While staying with similar chipset vendor is fine (RT-AC68U & RT-AC86U). Mixing chipset will cause random glitches with no network or node not connected. (Blue Cave & RT-AC86U). This is even worst when you attempt to use an AX model with an AC model.

I found that the RT-AC86U + RT-AC86U combo will give the best performance and stability as it is always the first one to receive new firmware.

Too many parameters to control
While this is technically not ASUS fault. Optimally, ASUS should fix everything on a set of best known parameters when AiMesh is enabled rather than leaving it to the users to figure out manually. While power users will be fine, many casual users simply do not have the knowledge to perform this.

Firmware Issues
The way AiMesh is developed today is not really that user friendly. Updating firmware will sometime break AiMesh and users will need to perform a factory reset and start everything from scratch. At some point, people are going to get tired from having to deal with this constantly.

Comparing it to Google WiFi or Eero, although it doesn't offer a similar level of performance like a 4X4 AiMesh router, they are easier to manage and don't really requires the amount of time required to fine tune everything. It just work smoothly out of the box.


While I will give credit to ASUS for developing their own mesh protocol and backport it to their old models rather than relying on vendor's implementation such as Qualcomm SON. But, at this point it is still a mess and far from what the competitors can do (Eero, Google WiFi and etc)

 

[Grisu]

For me you missed an important point: Guest WiFi is not supported on Aimesh-nodes.
And SmartConnect may be a good feature, but as long as it hinders to set a fix channel it is often useless.

 

[RMerlin]

Lack of proper roaming support

Expect that one to improve on select models in the coming weeks/months.

 

[aurizn]

Expect that one to improve on select models in the coming weeks/months.

Will it be a full 802.11 k/v/r implementation or ASUS is still attempting to develop their own roaming mechanism without any PSK caching?

 

[RMerlin]

Will it be a full 802.11 k/v/r implementation or ASUS is still attempting to develop their own roaming mechanism without any PSK caching?

All I can share for now is what's visible in the GPL source code.

config RTCONFIG_FBT
        bool "FAST BSS Transition (802.11r FBT) support"
        default n

config RTCONFIG_BCN_RPT
        bool "enable 802.11k beacon request/report for roaming"
        default n

config RTCONFIG_BTM_11V
        bool "enable 802.11v BTM request/report for roaming"
        default n

I can't say which platform is getting which of these, or how they are going to be implemented. The two last options seem to be currently enabled on the RT-AC68U, no idea if they are functional yet or not.

 

[KeithLa]

Hello, I'm curious to know any updates from anyone on this thread? I'm a new Aimesh user with RT-AC66U B1 (main) and Blue Cave (node) experiencing roaming handoff problems, with or without Roaming Assistant enabled, and whether I use common or separate 2.4GHz and 5GHz SSIDs. Specifically, Verizon WiFi calling and Zoom conferences are interrupted as I walk around, as is live radio streaming using TuneIn. My phone is a brand new 2020 Motorola edge+ flagship.

I'm also noticing my phone sometimes clings to low RSSI Aimesh connections (e.g. -67dbm) even with substantially stronger Aimesh nodes nearby.

Today I tested a TP-Link Deco mesh system in exact place of my Asus devices, and found it roams well as long it has Fast Roaming 802.11r enabled. Without that, I experienced similar audio streaming reconnects as on Aimesh.

This suggests that my Asus Aimesh APs do not support 802.11r or similar roaming assist protocols.

Are my Blue Cave and RT-AC66U B1 poor choices for Aimesh? Are there settings I should try?

I'm partial to Asus firmware, web UI, etc., but not convinced Aimesh is capable enough for my home.

 

[tekrich]

I answered no, after trying it twice.

The issue I had was after moving far away from one node/router, and being close to the next node/router. At this point the device would still be connected to the farthest node, before being dropped and connecting to the closest node. The experience was low bandwidth with high pings, prior to the switch actually happening. And everyone that moved around had the same issue. It just wasn't a smooth transition between nodes.

Now I use the AC88U in AP mode, wired to the AX88U. By the way, AiMesh was with the same hardware set up, wired backhaul.

Router and AP with the same SSIDs and passwords, and Roaming assist set just so devices drop when needed and connect to the nearest node/router. And this, for me, is better with instant transitions.

I might give AiMesh another go if the devices AiMesh is going to be improved, but the manual roaming I have set up works perfectly.

 

[KeithLa]

Interesting, I've read posts elsewhere (perhaps your own) that AP mode has worked better than Aimesh for some, so may give that a try. What's frustrating as I've been testing several real-time streaming apps (Zoom, CNN, Facebook Messenger video calls, etc.) is that it sometimes hands off fine, other times glitchs slightly but returns, and other times completely drops connections.

I've also today read a few in-depth technical evals of Aimesh that are not very flattering re: its roaming and backhaul behaviors.

 

[Levahj]

I like Asus routers. I like the interface. I like the fact they have DDNS support through their own servers. A lot I like about them.
I have ~1/3rd of an acre at my home and really wanted AIMesh to work for me. Had 1 RT-AC86U as the main and 1 RT-AC68U hard wire meshed to it in a Kitty Corner formation in the house. I would drop WiFi calls ALL THE TIME. When playing Spotify through Apple TV to an receiver so it could play throughout the house, that would constantly drop as I moved through the house as well.

When I found out they are not using any of the handoff protocols developed for fast transfer ( 802.11 k/v/r ) I gave up and went back to one router and in 2.4ghz can get through the entire property okay (not great) but better than stuff dropping all the time. Mabye there are royalties Asus is trying to avoid in implementing any of the 802.11 k/v/r protocols ?

Who knows. What I do know is AIMesh is garbage. Hate to say it but it is true.

 

[KeithLa]

Hi Levahj, thanks for replying. Very timely, since just today I reconfirmed that running just my RT-AC66U B1 performs (far) better than that plus my Blue Cave as an AiMesh node. Handoff between those two was frequent as I roamed thru my house and yard, and interfered substantially with Zoom conferences, video streaming, and WiFi calling. Interestingly, when running with just the RT-AC66U, there were still some occasional glitches as it transitioned from 2.4G to 5G (incl. switching to the guest network at one point, I'm not sure why), but nowhere near as severe as having the Blue Cave active as an AiMesh node.

So, I'm back to where I started, still looking for a solution for reliable real-time streaming throughout my home and yard.

 

[Levahj]

There are definitely a lot of consumer grade mesh networks out there now. I have not done any research on them but if you look at Amazon reviews the Netgear Orbi seems to be good. Amazon eero and TP-Link Deco are others with good reviews. There are a lot of them. they most likely use some variation of 802.11 k/v/r if I had to guess for quick hand-offs which is the key. I am too cheap and lazy to use anything more than my one Asus RT-AC68. LOL. It just works and gets around my house and yard okay enough. And I am used to their interface which makes it just too easy to stay with it for now as I have IP cameras and other things that I require static IP's and port forwarding for.

 

[KeithLa]

I've recently tried TP-Link Deco M9s (US$199 3 pack bundle from Costco), and they roamed seamlessly only after turning on 802.11r, which is off by default for compatibility with older WiFi devices. Even just one Deco M9 delivered very strong signal nearly covering my home and yard.

But, several likely deal-killers: 1) Runs crazy hot, and I don't have good non-enclosed router or AP locations, 2) Several of my IP cameras wouldn't connect (even wired HomePlug Logitech cams), and 3) No web-based configuration, let alone rich dashboard features like Asus.

So, I'm back to the drawing board. Unfortunately, it seems like all strong, mesh capable routers run hot now and need to be out in the open.

 

[Levahj]

Those are huge deal killers. Thanks for the heads up on your experience. Sounds like my fears are warranted, especially on the software/dashboard side. The Asus interface is hard to beat!

If you're really in a bind I wondering if Cisco-level commercial type offerings would have everything needed. I would assume they would but would be pricey.

 

[KeithLa]

My situation isn't worth lots of time or cost, it's just an irritant when on VoIP or streaming. I can disable WiFi Calling on my phone, or even just switch off WiFi and use my unlimited 4G no problem. Really just an inconvenience, and disappointment that AiMesh isn't really "mesh" like for me.

 

[isira]

The 386 RC firmware thread mentioned 802.11 k/v support in the changelog. I haven't read about anyone test wifi calling/streaming handoff yet. https://www.snbforums.com/threads/asuswrt-386-rc2-public-beta-with-full-functions-aimesh-2-0.65235/

 

[KeithLa]

TL/DR: Abandoning AiMesh, achieved whole-home, real-time happiness with TP-Link Deco M9+ three-node mesh, while retaining Asus as wired router for AiProtection, web UI, and more.
-------------------
After an additional week+ giving AiMesh one more chance, using my budget RT-AC66U B1 as primary router and moving my Blue Cave node around to various spots, I'm abandoning AiMesh altogether. Even when throughput is great and my top end 2020 flagship smartphone hops between the two nodes when it (mostly) should, they simply can't reconnect fast enough to keep real-time streams and VoIP/video calls from dropping for 5-10 seconds, even longer in some cases.

And now that I better understand 802.11 v, k, and r, I'm not hopeful AiMesh will become seamless adding just v and k, but no r. FYI, TP-Link published a clear, easy to understand article about these protocols, see https://community.tp-link.com/en/home/forum/topic/180194.

Happily, I hadn't yet returned the TP-Link Deco M9+ three node $199 Costco bundle, so gave it another shot, and found my solution: Use the M9+ mesh in AP mode, with 802.11r and wireless backhaul, while retaining the Asus RT-AC66U B1 as a wired router only (WiFi fully disabled).

Voila! I now have seamless 100-300+ Mbps 5GHz coverage -- on both main and guest networks -- throughout my RF-hating multi-level, post & beam construction home, well out into my garage, driveway, front and back yards. And, I retain Asus AiProtection security, web UI, and traffic analyzer. (FYI, the M9+ has TrendMicro protection like Asus, but only 3 years free, and no web UI or traffic analyzer, for now.)

Another advantage: Flexibility for placing the primary (wired) mesh AP, since I have Ethernet to several places in my home. In other words, it doesn't have to co-locate with my broadband modem, which is in an enclosed, granite-topped, AV gear-crammed credenza, a terrible place for any WiFi AP, mesh or other. (In hindsight, I'm amazed both ASUS routers had as much reach from inside there as they did.)

It also helped to let TP-Link's tri-band wireless backhaul do its thing, and not insist on Ethernet backhaul just because I could. When trying to bring strong 5GHz through walls and floors, node placement matters more than backhaul, I'd say, and TP-Link's wireless backhaul utilizes its third dedicated 5GHz band, plus up to 50% of the main 5GHz and 2.4GHz bands as available (I'm guessing most/all tri-band mesh products work this way?). I just measured 337 Mbps via one of my wireless mesh nodes, which may even be hopping through another wireless node back to the wired primary (unfortunately, the TP-Link app doesn't show a network map of how nodes are linked).

The only roaming glitch I've noticed is slower handoff when the M9 band steers my phone between 2.4 and 5Ghz (vs. AP steering within 5GHz), but even that is only a second or two of dropout, nothing as bad as AiMesh, and I can probably mitigate that hole by adjusting placement of one of my nodes.

So, a happy ending for me, at a total cost ($199 mesh bundle + $80 Asus router) that's still same or less than three-node Eero, Orbi, or Nest WiFi.

 

[OzarkEdge]

And now that I better understand 802.11 v, k, and r, I'm not hopeful AiMesh will become seamless adding just v and k, but no r. FYI, TP-Link published a clear, easy to understand article about these protocols, see https://community.tp-link.com/en/home/forum/topic/180194.

From that article:

"If clients don’t support 802.11r, they may fail to connect to Deco. When the Fast Roaming feature is enabled in the Deco app, the wireless Beacon frames broadcast by Deco will carry 802.11r related information. Some clients can’t recognize this information and drop this Beacon frame, leading to connection failure."

This may suggest why Asus has chosen to not yet support 802.11r. It may be better to connect more slowly without 802.11r, than to not connect at all with it on the router only.

OE

 

[KeithLa]

It may be better to connect more slowly without 802.11r, than to not connect at all with it on the router only.

Hi OE, you're quite right, and I failed to mention that I *might* be experiencing an .11r incompatibility with one of my Foscam wifi cameras, although I've been able to get an identical one connected to the M9 mesh, so have some further debugging to try.

I also should mention that with 802.11 disabled (the default), I didn't achieve fully seamless roaming, testing with a live Zoom conference audio and video stream.

 

[KeithLa]

In fairness to Asus and AiMesh, I should add: I could probably have fared well enough with AiMesh if I wasn't frequently strolling around while on VoIP and video calls thru my smartphone, indoors and out, or streaming Internet radio and TV (fwiw, even a few seconds of buffering in those apps those didn't always help). Slow handoff aside, AiMesh did successfully deliver 2.4 and 5GHz throughput to my far flung corners, and I'll wager newer and higher-end Asus RT models could have done so even better.

So, current Asus RT users who want to fill one or two WiFi holes but don't need seamless roaming for VoIP or AV streaming may still want to give AiMesh a try before diving into a pricier mesh system, esp. by picking up a <$100 budget or used AiMesh capable router (though I still can't recommend the lowest cost RP-AC55 extender for this purpose, simply not strong enough, even with wired backhaul).

 

[Mazzel]

Hi I just found this topic and would like to comment the following. I have a similar setup ( 2 RT-AC66U B1 ) one as router and the other and a Blue Cave ( in the livingroom ) as Node. I have an ethernet backhaul and i am still trying to figger out what is the best way to use this Ai mesh configuration. Use Bose soundtouch system and had to disable Airtime fairness for multiroom audio. My echo dot does not find my 5 ghz wifi network, only if I change a wifi setting on the router and the wifi channels change for a sec my echo dot sees the 5 Ghz and can connect. Seems too be a FW issue and indeed I noticed that roaming assistant does not work as it should. Clients with RSSI of - 76 keep connect to the router although the Blue Cave is nearer and has a much better signal. Wifi speed also is unstable, this afternoon I did some speedtests with to unstable results. Does anyone have some tips for me ? Or should I return my AI mesh system ? In june I bought a RT-AC66U which crashed after 6 or 7 weeks. I had the blackknight RT-N66U for several years with Merlin firmware without any problem in combination with two AP 's ( TP link ).

Regards,

Rob