Wireless bridge Vs Wifi

[jmantn]

Since everyone's network is different I figured I'd create a new thread and ask which is better for my situation wifi or a wireless bridge.

I have a 1980's split foyer house (drywall for interior) here in the US and have a 60Mbps download connection from charter. I had my my basement set up as the media room twelve years ago and recently started migrating all my equipment upstairs.

As it stands my Modem will stay in place in my den. I have an Asus RT-AC87U connected to my modem.

My living room is directly above my den and since my den is "finished" I don't want to run wires up along the wall or drill holes in my den ceiling.

As it currently stands all devices in living room such as a Vizio smart tv and playstation 4 are running off wifi. There's a floor between them and they are about 40 feet or less apart so to speak considering the floor.

I'm contemplating using my Asus RT-AC68U as a wireless bridge and placing that 15 feet above where the 87U router is on the living room floor area then running Cat6E to my devices which there are more then what's listed.

I understand throughout is halved but not clear what the impact would be since I have AC routers and unsure if I'd be better off to just stick with wifi.

Also as a note my Vizio TV is wireless AC as its a 4K TV and the PS4 is wireless N, all devices other than Vizio on upper floor are wireless N if that helps with the consideration.

Trying to learn and appreciate all help.

Edit: would love a TPL-421E2K Powerline 1200 AV2 Adapter Kit but waiting for the new version which is scheduled for February according to Trendnet when I emailed them this week.

 

[jegesq]

I tried to respond to you yesterday, but with the DDOS attack going on, it never made it through. Here's what I was going to suggest:

Use your 87U as the router and set the 68U as a "repeater" and locate it as close as you can to receive a solid signal from the router as possible. Connect any client devices that require the highest possible speeds to the repeater's GigE LAN ports, and use the repeater's wireless to connect other devices that don't require the highest possible bandwidth. I think you will be pleasantly surprised, since the devices connected to the LAN ports of the repeater do not "halve" the transmission rates and speeds, and the repeater thus functions, with regard to the LAN ports, as a wireless bridge.

Whatever channel the repeater is receiving from the router is both "bridged" through the LAN ports of the repeater, and also rebroadcast on the repeater's two wireless channels (2.4 and 5.0ghz), so you'll want to give those two channels separate SSID's and you'll also want them to be different than the SSID's on your router. Interestingly, if you have the repeater set to receive your router's 5ghz channel (say 161), it will actually repeat not only the signal itself, but the repeater will also use the same channel number as well (n this example, 161). The 2.4ghz channel is automatically set by the repeater , so you don't need to do anything with it.

I have this exact set up, except that I'm using two RT-AC66U's instead of an 87U as my router and the 68U that you want to use as the repeater/extender.

The speeds I'm able to get from the repeater's LAN ports are not halved, nor are they really much less than what I'd get by connecting a device wirelessly to the router, in other words, it just receives the signal and passes it through the switch to the device. The point is that this allows you to connect devices that have Ethernet ports that can benefit from the highest transmission rates to the repeater's LAN port, thus getting speeds that are close to those if they could connect to the router wirelessly. The hit you'll take on speed is when connecting a wireless client to the repeater (for example when it gets out of range of the router's wireless).

I have tried Powerline adapters, and this set up, at least for me, is far superior. I have an HTPC, a Roku connected to the LAN ports of the repeater, and use these devices for streaming regularly, all without ever any lag, jitter, or buffering. I have a 300/20 plan from my ISP, and for example, can get download speeds on the router (with a computer directly connected via GigE to the AC66U set up as the router) that exceed the stated rates, i.e., 325+ down, and 21+ up. If I connect a device wirelessly when in the same room as the router, I can usually get close to those speeds, i.e., about 300+/- 5mbps, and the upload is unaffected. If I do a speedtest (using ATT's speed test web tool, a simple Ookla engine), I can get the same speeds from my HTPC which is connected via GigE to the repeater as I get from a wireless device in the same room as the router, i.e., there is virtually no difference.
Of course, devices connected to the repeater's wireless channels see a drop in speed, which is about half, but even so, that's more than usable, even at the farthest most boundaries of my home.

You'll get better speeds if you connect using a wired connection from your router to the TV in your living room, but for my money, I'd use the repeater and connect to it via GigE LAN before I'd go with a Powerline device. But that's what works for me...YMMV.

 

[raven-au]

Certainly I agree with the above comment.

Quite some time ago I set out to use dual band wireless bridges at locations where I had devices that needed fairly good throughput. It was always difficult but with wireless AC that has changed.

Point is it's worth checking if things really need a wireless bridge nowadays because the wireless technology in both devices and routers has progressed quite a way which I've realized only just recently. For example, I need a bridge for AppleTVs since they have IMO weak wireless but don't need one any more for the TVs etc.

It's very much up to the situation though, as you say, distance and position etc. but is worth some experiment if only to understand what your equipment is capable of.

But it's also worth considering the effect other devices may have on your environment.

For example I've noticed that when a BluRay player in one rack is in use, using it's own wireless, a bridge just above it suffers a reported rate drop of around thirty percent (at least I currenty think it's the BluRay). Also slower older technology devices can have an effect on wireless sync rate such as older iDevices or Android devices.

But, yes, bridging or adding a wireless AC repeater can work quite well, of course there's also the product implementation stability as well, so once again you'll need to check.

Ian

 

[jmantn]

Just wanted to say thank you to both of you. As luck would have it I had to decide during the DDOS attacks if I wanted to attempt a "Wired" bridge. I was able to get Dish to come out and move my hopper from my den to my living room and run a 50ft Cat 6E ethernet cable I already had from the den to living room.

Upside was they were 150% cheaper then the cheapest electrician and they spent probably five hours on this for me and I paid less than $75. The bad part was it was as difficult as i had thought. In my house as you go upstairs in my split foyer there's a half wall that separates the living room from the stairwell and that's where I wanted the wires to be ran within. Unfortunately there was three separate boards and they had to use a flex bit and it shot off into my walls in three separate places so besides now having to paint my house I now have a wired bridge.

So one final question. Should I just let the AC68U mirror the SSID's of each spectrum (2.4, 5)? Since it's a wired access point so to speak I shouldn't have any issues with bandwidth I wouldn't think.

Again thank you both for taking the time to help as there are many people I know with similar issues that I will forward this along to.

 

[jegesq]

Personally, I'd still use two separate SSID's for the repeater's wireless (if that is what you were asking). You want to know whether your devices are connecting to the 2.4 or 5ghz band, at least I would want to know for the simple reason that you want to have your older devices (b/g/ and maybe /n) connecting to the 2.4, and your faster, newer (ac/ and perhaps /n) connecting to the 5.0ghz channels. As you know each of these bands will drop down to the lowest common denominator of device that is connected, so, on your 2.4 band connecting a b or g device will slow down n-capable devices. So there's that to think about. Me, I just turn off support for b and g legacy devices so it lessens the concern on my part, but I still want to know which band is which.

And if you're asking whether the SSID's should be different or the same as your router's wireless SSID's, the answer to that is you need to see how things work with that setting, i.e., are you going to set your router/access point to roaming and how well does that work in your environment. Again, in my setting, I prefer to keep everything separated, with different SSID's on the router from those on the repeater, but with your AC68U acting as a true AP, you may just want to set the SSID's to the same settings as your downstairs AC87U router so that any transitions on mobile wireless devices that you'll use in both areas (e.g., phones, tablets, laptops) just seamlessly and silently select the strongest wireless signal. I think most people here would suggest the latter for AP's, but again YMMV.

 

[jmantn]

Personally, I'd still use two separate SSID's for the repeater's wireless (if that is what you were asking). You want to know whether your devices are connecting to the 2.4 or 5ghz band, at least I would want to know for the simple reason that you want to have your older devices (b/g/ and maybe /n) connecting to the 2.4, and your faster, newer (ac/ and perhaps /n) connecting to the 5.0ghz channels. As you know each of these bands will drop down to the lowest common denominator of device that is connected, so, on your 2.4 band connecting a b or g device will slow down n-capable devices. So there's that to think about. Me, I just turn off support for b and g legacy devices so it lessens the concern on my part, but I still want to know which band is which.

And if you're asking whether the SSID's should be different or the same as your router's wireless SSID's, the answer to that is you need to see how things work with that setting, i.e., are you going to set your router/access point to roaming and how well does that work in your environment. Again, in my setting, I prefer to keep everything separated, with different SSID's on the router from those on the repeater, but with your AC68U acting as a true AP, you may just want to set the SSID's to the same settings as your downstairs AC87U router so that any transitions on mobile wireless devices that you'll use in both areas (e.g., phones, tablets, laptops) just seamlessly and silently select the strongest wireless signal. I think most people here would suggest the latter for AP's, but again YMMV.

I apologize for being unclear. I am using separate SSID's for my 2.4 and my 5 bands however each router is using those same SSID's (aka shared between routers) so it's transparent when moving from router to router.

I just wanted to update and say I am thoroughly amazed at my speed tests today with my setup. I know my cable company may have something to do with this but this is what I've seen today with my 60Mbps connection with Charter here in Kingsport Tennessee:

2 feet away from the wired 68U I'm receiving download speeds consistently of 40Mbps on my 2.4 band on my iPhone 6 Plus and on my 5 ghz band I'm receiving between 57-67Mbps download speeds. I typically averaged 20-30 Mbps upstairs with the only active router in the house at the time being the AC87U in my den.

Also when I'm up to 30 feet away upstairs from the 68U I'm still receiving download speeds of up to 60Mbps via wifi.

All speed tests done an iPhone 6 Plus because that's what I had on hand that's fairly accurate. I'll try and test on a macbook later tonight and IF results are different I'll post an update but I'm floored at how much of a difference I'm seeing but also realize Charter could have done something in my area and I just don't know about it.

Also as a side note for any Charter customers my area is now all digital and we have the free speed increase to 60Mbps.

Finally and previously if I was even 4 feet away from the 87U I couldn't get speeds faster then 30Mbps which may or may not have to do with numerous issues the Asus RT-AC87U has recently experienced and I also updated to a beta firmware for the 87U the same day I completed my wired bridge which was yesterday.

 

[jegesq]

A couple of comments and observations:

1. Understand on the roaming and switching, i.e., why you use same SSID's on router and AP. All good.

2. As I said, while the Phy link layer may show that connection speed is halved, this doesn't mean that your up and download speeds are going to be halved. This also mirrors my experience with my AC66U in repeater mode as well, i.e., even though the adapter's connection speed (as shown in Windows when looking at the device's wireless adapter properties) is halved from what it otherwise might be if connecting wirelessly to the router (and assuming the same distances from router and repeater), the download and upload speeds are not. So if you're doing "live" streaming over the internet with Netflix, Hulu, or gaming, you may see better results than you might otherwise expect just looking at the connection speed of the adapter to the AP).

3. You should use a laptop to connect to one of the GigE LAN ports if you have any devices connected via the LAN of the AP (although with some routers set to AP, that may disable some of the LAN ports if I recall....I've not used the AC68U in true AP mode, so I don't know if that's the case). But you will truly be amazed at your upload and download speed if you test it via the LAN ports....it'll be even better than you're seeing from the wireless side of the AP.

4. That said, you should also try to test your wireless speeds using a laptop, since phones aren't the best and most reliable way to do such testing.

5. Wait until your ISP goes to even higher speeds as it undoubtedly will in the near future. Then you'll be really happy. Better yet, ask Charter whether they've provisioned your area for truly high speeds, i.e., above 150Mpbs. If they have, you'll need a new cable modem to take advantage of the channel bonding required for speeds higher than 150. Most cable co's are using the Arris-Motorola SB6183 (a 16x4 cable-modem only) or the Arris DG1670A (a 16x4 combo modem/router/wireless). Depending on price, it may be cheaper to buy than lease one from your cable co.