N66U - Massive underperformance on 2.4Ghz

[Kdot]

I was browsing around these forums before I decided to finally go ahead and purchase the Asus, upgrading from an appallingly performing DLINK 635.

On initial impression and some reading, it seemed that I would require the .372 firmware upgrade due to using an xbox wirelessly, and I'm not sure whether this next part was needed but I changed the power output to 200Mw.

Here is a snapshot of my 2.4Ghz connection, my ISP provides me with 60Mb through a teated and confirmed ethernet cable/wireless on the 5Ghz frequency.

I need to also add the area I live in is heavily congested with 2.4Ghz routers, and that many of my devices don't support 5Ghz.

Any recommendations?

 

[thiggins]

Make sure the router is using 20 MHz mode in 2.4 GHz.

What does the speedtest give you with an Ethernet connected device so that we can be sure this is a wireless problem?

What throughput did the D-Link provide?

 

[soapy]

i would lower the output power back down to either the default 80mW or a max of 100 mW, putting the power up so much actually worsens the wireless signal by introducing a lot of noise to the signal, it does not seem to help the wifi at all, my 2.4 is set at 80 and the 5ghz is set at 100, up to 100 seems to be ok but more than that worsens the signal

 

[CaptainSTX]

Virgin Mobile

Are you using Virgin Mobile as your ISP? If you are using a 3G dongle attached to your router this might be the problem.

My experience with 3G was all bad. What speed down and up do you get if you connect a PC directly to Virgin Mobile?

With more information about your setup perhaps someone on this forum can give you some suggestions.

 

[Kdot]

Make sure the router is using 20 MHz mode in 2.4 GHz.

What does the speedtest give you with an Ethernet connected device so that we can be sure this is a wireless problem?

What throughput did the D-Link provide?

I will change that to 20MHz , the ethernet cable comes just over 60, just like the attached picture from my phone at a distance <1m on 5Ghz. , the second picture is on the 2.4ghz. I shall make amendments and re-test

i would lower the output power back down to either the default 80mW or a max of 100 mW, putting the power up so much actually worsens the wireless signal by introducing a lot of noise to the signal, it does not seem to help the wifi at all, my 2.4 is set at 80 and the 5ghz is set at 100, up to 100 seems to be ok but more than that worsens the signal

I will make amendments and report back - thanks for the help

Are you using Virgin Mobile as your ISP? If you are using a 3G dongle attached to your router this might be the problem.

My experience with 3G was all bad. What speed down and up do you get if you connect a PC directly to Virgin Mobile?

With more information about your setup perhaps someone on this forum can give you some suggestions.

Virgin media is my ISP, they provide it via fibre optic cable. The maximum down/up speed I should obtain is 60/3. I have always received it if connected via ethernet cable, however my sole priority for the purchase of this router was range and to maintain speeds across the flat.

What part of the setup page would you like me to provide?





Edit : I have attached the wireless settings for both 2.4ghz/5ghz.

I have reduced the 2.4ghz power output to 80Mw, and on the 5Ghz to 100Mw as suggested, changed to 20Mhz rather than 20/40 and chose the nearest thing to an empty channel. However I'm still getting these spikes, and no where near full speed on the 2.4ghz spectrum.

My old Draft N DLINK would always provide 60Mb next to the router, however its as range increased where faults began to show up, however with the N66u which on pen and paper is an immense upgrade, I can barely say I'm filled with confidence as it fulfills neither close or long range. I understand settings can play a big role, but to an extent of affecting say half the speed or more?

Looking forward to your replies. Thanks in advance

 

[CaptainSTX]

Thanks for the clarification re your ISP and their method of service delivery.

Since your connection using the 5 Ghz is very good you are going to need to try finding the best possible 2.4 Ghz channel.

Start with inSSIDer and find the least congested channel in your flat. Test in various locations and at various times of day. The amount of use on any channel is more important that the absolute number of SSIDs. Unfortunately inSSIDer won't show you the use (heavy streamers ) so it will come down to trial and error. And the best channel today may not be the best next week when your neighbors switch equipment and/or channels.

Failing to find a good 2.4Mhz channel may require you to update to 5 Ghz adapters, using Ethernet, Ethernet over powerline or MOCA if you want speed. Not what you want to hear but in today's world in an urban environment 13 channels on 2.4 Ghz band are not nearly enough.

 

[Kdot]

Thanks for the clarification re your ISP and their method of service delivery.

Since your connection using the 5 Ghz is very good you are going to need to try finding the best possible 2.4 Ghz channel.

Start with inSSIDer and find the least congested channel in your flat. Test in various locations and at various times of day. The amount of use on any channel is more important that the absolute number of SSIDs. Unfortunately inSSIDer won't show you the use (heavy streamers ) so it will come down to trial and error. And the best channel today may not be the best next week when your neighbors switch equipment and/or channels.

Failing to find a good 2.4Mhz channel may require you to update to 5 Ghz adapters, using Ethernet, Ethernet over powerline or MOCA if you want speed. Not what you want to hear but in today's world in an urban environment 13 channels on 2.4 Ghz band are not nearly enough.

I initially thought that, hence the reason I sought a tutorial on how to increase the power output on 2.4Ghz band, here is a quick snap on InSSIDer (Already used before hand on my DLINK and finding a good channel is a nightmare, it changes on an hourly basis) , the area is VERY congested.

Another issue is channels 12/13 don't work on either of the laptops.

Currently the household compromises of ;
iPhone 5,
Samsung Galaxy S3,
Xbox 360 S,
Wii Black,
iPhone 4, (2.4Ghz issue - doesn't pick up 5Ghz)
Blackberry Bold 9700, (was always a lost cause, not bothered about it)
2 x Toshiba Laptops, (Toshiba C850 and Qosmio F50-10Z) - To my knowledge both don't support 5Ghz.

You can see as to where the issue lies behind needing to use the 2.4Ghz spectrum.



Edit : Just noticed on inSSIDer and on my wifi list, the 5Ghz is appearing, however not for a prolonged period of time, it will then disappear and reappear in timed intervals. Is it on the borderline of the laptop wireless card compatibility?

Edit 2 : Even the 5Ghz band is acting up, I don't see why there should be sharp sudden drops, I am the only person running 5ghz in my neighbourhood.

 

[jlake]

Try using Merlin firmware .372.31
It uses the older (more compatible) wireless driver. Remember to reset the router to factory defaults and reconfigure from scratch after you flash the firmware.

The new Asus/Broadcom high performance wireless driver found in stock Asus .372 firmware is not compatible with all wireless adapters at the present moment.

Sometimes you have to try all of the 2.4 ghz channels until you find the best one when you're in heavy congestion. inSSIDer gets it right most of the time but not always. If you've got an extra $200 laying around, you can try inSSIDer for Office.

It might be easier (cheaper) to get 5ghz adapters.

Also, make sure you remove your old wireless profiles from computers and "forget" the network on your iPhone etc.
You can also try resetting the network settings on your iPhone. Settings>General>Reset>Reset Network Settings

What firmware are using?

Again, make sure you reset to factory defaults and remove old profiles if you jump up or down from firmware versions.

You can also try relocating the router (at least for testing purposes)

 

[Kdot]

Try using Merlin firmware .372.31
It uses the older (more compatible) wireless driver. Remember to reset the router to factory defaults and reconfigure from scratch after you flash the firmware.

The new Asus/Broadcom high performance wireless driver found in stock Asus .372 firmware is not compatible with all wireless adapters at the present moment.

Sometimes you have to try all of the 2.4 ghz channels until you find the best one when you're in heavy congestion. inSSIDer gets it right most of the time but not always. If you've got an extra $200 laying around, you can try inSSIDer for Office.

It might be easier (cheaper) to get 5ghz adapters.

Also, make sure you remove your old wireless profiles from computers and "forget" the network on your iPhone etc.
You can also try resetting the network settings on your iPhone. Settings>General>Reset>Reset Network Settings

What firmware are using?

Again, make sure you reset to factory defaults and remove old profiles if you jump up or down from firmware versions.

You can also try relocating the router (at least for testing purposes)

I will tinker with the firmware version when I am indoors again then.
When you say compatibility, do you mean fully non functional or poorer speeds?

5Ghz at not too far a distance, near enough directly underneath (wood fllooring) not concrete and losing a 1/3 of speed. Is this meant to be the case? - I understand that 5Ghz range isn't as superior to 2.4ghz , however we are talking of a very average sized maisonette. ~80Square metres.


Using .372.1393 , as well as not getting out the performance payed for from the router, when third party realise specific devices have nearly max downlink around the house and they are getting the same/worse than before hand, I may be on the receiving end of a big moan shall we say.
I.e , iPhone 4 holder/Qosmio user to be specific

 

[CaptainSTX]

Site Survey

If you install Merlin's custom firmware you can run a site survey using the router.

This will give you a better picture of what SSIDs your router is actually seeing. It is probably more sensitive than the WiFi radios in your device. In your difficult situation this is important as it is the router's radios that decide when to wait and not walk on other local WiFi traffic.

You may also want to look at re-positioning the router and its antennas.

As I said it will be trial and error, but good luck.

 

[Kdot]

Sorry to bring what may seem a old thread back up again, but under a year later and the issue still persists.

I've done endless testing between all available firmwares, however the density of 2.4ghz networks around the flat is killing the performance from the N66U.

Just a quick update on the networks around me, a floor underneath my living room is a neighbours wireless modem, is it making it near impossible to use the 2.4ghz band in my living room along with the rest of the flats in the block, as it is closer than my router which is in an upstairs bedroom (due to initial installation restrictions..).

I'm sure there must be a manner in which I can supplement the band by manipulation of some settings. I've researched quite a bit involving reaching correct power and use of custom antennas however I have not reached any optimal settings.


I do have a new DIR-615 laying around in the house, but in my mind I purchased the N66U to handle everything alone.

Some devices cannot be purchased adapters for use on the 5ghz band due to incompatibilities.

This is not as important as the rest, but how is it possible to gain the maximum transfer rate as "reachable" by the router (450)? Currently stuck on 216 on 2.4ghz.


Edit : the speedtest is <1m away from the ASUS. Surely any entry point router can provide full throughput , I even believe at some point the rubbish-hub (virgin media's standard router) did that for a period of time.

 

[L&LD]

It is a very long time from your first post and a lot has changed.

Stating you have tested 'all available firmware' is not very precise; details are very important.


This is what I would recommend for you to be trying today:

1) Flash the latest RMerlin firmware on the RT-N66U, the 374.40 version from here.

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/bkfq2a6aebq68//Asuswrt-Merlin#2324w3jh7e4q4

or direct download link

http://www.mediafire.com/download/kjb8u7ag4odm0nr/RT-N66U_3.0.0.4_374.40_0.zip


2) Perform a full reset to defaults via the web gui after you have upgraded the firmware above. After it has reset, pull the power plug and leave it off for a minute or two, then restart it (don't do a reboot via the web gui). Do a quick setup so that you're able to go into the advanced configuration settings, then reboot the router once more (either by pulling the power or by rebooting via the web gui).


3) At this point, you want to set the following options (leaving the others at their defaults).

a) Wireless Mode Auto (both bands)
b) Channel Width 20MHz (2.4GHz band) 40MHz (5GHz band)
c) Set the power output to 100mW for both bands
d) Short Preamble for both bands
e) Choose channel 1, 6 or 11 for the 2.4GHz band, testing for throughput at a medium to far range on each channel. Do not use other non-control channels as you will have interference from both other control channels (upper and lower).
f) On the 5GHz band, test each lower channel for the best throughput one by one


To give the tests above maximum chance of working optimally, relocate your router to be as close (or at least with the least obstructions (floors/walls/heat pipes) to the main area) as possible. Even a few inches difference or a slight antenna orientation can make a difference here.

Have your router as high above Ground as possible (but lower than the ceiling of the floor you want it to work in).

The antenna work best in a 'W' configuration - see if slight modifications or alignments help give a better signal to the main area you want covered.

Finally, if you're still not getting the performance you expect, try to disable HW acceleration (NAT acceleration on the latest firmware) and/or IPV6 support to see if it helps.


You can use programs like inssider to visually see any differences (if any) with the way your wireless network behaves, but in the end - it doesn't mean anything: an actual throughput test is the only true measure of your network speed (simply copy a file over your wireless network from the fastest source you have; an SSD equipped laptop or desktop copying a large (1GB or larger file) to an another SSD equipped laptop or desktop would be ideal).


To give you an idea how easily influenced Wifi signals are; I can get my laptop to almost double the throughput by angling it to about 65 degrees perpendicular to the router it is facing. This is only a movement of about 2" and a range of about 17 feet.


To make your testing meaningful: have the laptop plugged in, don't move it between tests and try to do the testing as fast as possible (this is to minimize other networks being used differently in the testing window).