network design and documentation for Asus

Hi Guys, hope this isnt a silly question but can you advise on what is the best way to design and document an IP router network for home/office use. Wouldnt be more than say Virgin modem. Ausus routers - 2 networks, extender routers say 4 either repeater/mesh/AP plus IP cameras say 12, 3 printers, say 12 screens (Lenovo M8 android ) ( what have I forgotten?)

Flashy line diags are ok (easy bit I could use draw.io) but the area I cant fathom is a recognised way of rigourously defining all the login/PW data for all the hook ups in such a way that it is immediately unambiguous when coming to this data months years later and reading them correctly.

I have an Elec Eng bg so I am used to seeing cable routing/core numbers/junction box hook ups/termins strip numbering/equipment terminations etc Its done with a flow of terminal spreadsheet/line diags/ JB diags. All very straight forward

IP catalogs just seem like a dogs breakfast. How do professionals do it so its maintainable. How is change control done?
All IT guys treated it on a need to know scraps of info - never found a proper documented set for a Network.

You better design something more configurable and expandable than Asus home products with AiMesh. Current AiMesh situation with multiple AiMesh Compatible products running different firmware is not even documented by Asus. With two separate networks and IP cameras in the mix look for more business oriented products with proper VLAN network segmentation and PoE powered APs. Ethernet infrastructure first and then UniFi or Omada as lower cost options. Both have network design tools available online so the final result is more predictable. Use your preferred way to document the network after.

Well guys there is an open admission and I thought it was my naivety with Asus home products - but then I read a topic from @RMerlin on merlin fw vs stock asus wrt at it seems the early days 15 years ago were a nightmare of unreliability. It seems Asus has in even recently couple years put out some poor upgrades - hence the genesis of merlin overlay with rapid bug catching and fixes Asus took a long time to bring out their own fixes. I have merlin 386.3_2 with XWRT Vortex on EA6900 Linksys (allegedly aka WR AC68u inside).
What I find with Asus instructions/websites is the flooding of simple operating instruction with the ravenousness desires of marketing mongrels pushing pushing tomorrows hitech in your face leaving the humble user in a fog of conflicting direction.

Its particularly annoying when simple concepts eg Router Login gets called Router account on the next page. When configuring two routers and never sure which router is being addressed - and so on. Their Vids supposed to help you are more Brand pushing by a soft girlie but when it comes to setting up etc she hops and skips rapidly over the basics. eg set up a Router AP .
It should be simple ? No way
You need to get all your Client names roughly identifiable between the two routers vs their IPs. Takes time with 20 odd listings to go thru and match each Mac address with client name vs 192.168.1.xxx (sometimes confusion with older gear between Mac id as I found.

Hence my wish to try and systematically document a home network.

If I have over complicated my example - just try a ISP modem - asus router - pc and show all the named data at each interface/operation - NB the screen wording must match exactly and little thinking needed between steps.

I daresay if I had started out as an IT nerd at vocational training then I wouldnt think like this - ie most amateur users.

I hope I havent upset anyone. I just find the whole home wifi network thing very frustrating. One wise member said "dont mess with that go straight to a PoE ethernet cable system. This is right of course and commercial security cams do this camera. Unfortunately homes often dont lend themselves to trailing cables around thru walls ceilings etc hence the need for wifi - but it has a short range thru walls etc <10m - for reliable signal strength.

Wi-Fi cameras have serious weakness though - an RF jammer takes them all at once. This is Plan B in surveillance the same way as wireless mesh is Plan B in networking. Make sure you invest in something more reliable and less disposable.

Tech9 said:

Wi-Fi cameras have serious weakness though - an RF jammer takes them all at once. This is Plan B in surveillance the same way as wireless mesh is Plan B in networking. Make sure you invest in something more reliable and less disposable.

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Ive just realised there's something called ubiquite and AP AC lite access points - never heard of them before cos Im not IT smart. I just thougth I could string together some cheap used rt ac68u - looks like Im going the wrong way about it. These used AP units are only ca £5 each

more digging and I cant stray into the semi pro commercial area that way over my head and budget. But a cat can look at the King eh?

robintes said:

called ubiquite and AP AC lite access points

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This is an old discontinued product. Ubiquiti UniFi system has four components - Gateway, Switch, Controller and Access Point. What you see is Access Point only, someone replaced the old ones and selling them as components only. They probably work, but to restore the system you need the rest of it and it won't be as cheap.

robintes said:

But a cat can look at the King eh?

Click to expand...

Ubiquiti UniFi and TP-Link Omada are somewhat affordable systems for home use. If you are looking for the King or Queen - different gear at different price point. In enterprise world HPE Aruba, Cisco, Ruckus have more royal status.

robintes said:

I just thougth I could string together some cheap used rt ac68u - looks like Im going the wrong way about it.

Click to expand...

On extremely tight budget - you can try. The problem - this approach is a dead end. The routers are 12+ years old, End-of-Life model, the old radios they have may struggle with more active clients. AiMesh is not really scalable, uses the same channels, the routers have to wait for each other to send/receive data. For 1-2 units - it's okay. For 3-4 or more - not a good idea. For somewhat critical application (surveillance, home/office use) - bad idea IMO. For wireless AiMesh with dual-band routers - don't even try. I'm not sure there is enough bandwidth on 2.4GHz for 12x IP camera streams. This part alone is questionable.

Tech9 said:

This is an old discontinued product. Ubiquiti UniFi system has four components - Gateway, Switch, Controller and Access Point. What you see is Access Point only, someone replaced the old ones and selling them as components only. They probably work, but to restore the system you need the rest of it and it won't be as cheap.



Ubiquiti UniFi and TP-Link Omada are somewhat affordable systems for home use. If you are looking for the King or Queen - different gear at different price point. In enterprise world HPE Aruba, Cisco, Ruckus have more royal status.

Click to expand...

cheers thnx 10^6 when I started out with a home router to connect to my isp modem (god awful BT asdm copper line kept dropping out I eventually got fibre and Virgin ISP heaven sent ever since) but I got a cheap used TP link. Simple to set up and worked and gave some improved security 10 years ago. But wifi was weak and would unreliably get to the next room so I got another TP router and hooked it up as a wifi extender. Simple - I could get to the next room, but not to my garden reliably. So I gave up meddling as I didnt know Jack Schwepps
The later I got a cheap Linksys badged RT AC68u with merlin FW which the guy assured me was much better than stock - for £20 worth a punt and it has performed well as a standalone router - but the range is ca 10m.

So I go another 68u cheap and opted to set up an AP mode - struggled with Asus rubbish instruction but eventually got ethernet connections. In the meantime I have discovered the very poor opinion a big name like Asus has for a home networker. Ran straight into getting the GUI to list all Client IPs and macs connected? This is a well known issue going on years and is very confusing. Members resort to 3rd party Scanners for IP Mac info to assist but its only part of the answer (whats recommended?)

I tried to sign up for Fing
whats the opinion on that?
I got nervous when It seemed to be data mining and want details of my network and location etc so I switched on my VP and it didnt like that. If its a home network scanner why does it need to go WAN wide? It didnt work so I binned it

Whats the way to proceed? Surely I need to scan my AP router and know whats connected to it? Asus GUI gives a client list which is useless, it also gives a list full view which starts with Client list (6 not connected locally to the AP) and then - if I refresh the main router it may list all 20 clients on the network

In short the Asus GUI is not a reliable indicator of whats connected

Unfortunately, I can't recommend any equipment for an unknown coverage area in an unknown type of house. You are perhaps in the UK and the houses there are built with less Wi-Fi transparent materials. The channels available are somewhat limited as well as the maximum allowed power. This project may turn more challenging than it seems.

True indeed we in UK have brick inner walls as well as double brick outer. Concrete tile roofs not wifi friendly.

Ubiquity - totally floods Google with its own listings - 100s of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bad smell to me. I eventually after 10-15 google search pages found a reddit entry
OMG some warnings their about $$$$ business practice
They have a "single pane of glass" product? ie if it fits your simple needs and works - good for you but dont try and step out of the box and mess with anything or i/f with other kit.
Support and bug reporting non existent - beware of their updates. if it works dont allow auto ug change


Any comment from your inside track wisdom pls

I currently have 2x Ubiquiti networks in home environment and both run as advertised since day one. New, purchased from Ubiquiti Store. I use different equipment for different purposes. Business places run on Netgate gateways, Netgear switches, HPE servers, Cisco access points, etc. This equipment makes little sense for home use, the price of some units is just too high, other units require licenses, etc. I have IT support, have to use known/standard/replaceable equipment. UniFi/Omada is my upper limit of hardware suggestions in this forum. Sometimes I may find Cisco CBW series a good fit, they have built-in controllers, sometimes I can recommend a home router for $100. I need to know what the equipment is for and what the requirements are.

Your old obsolete Asus routers idea - not good. All new UniFi/Omada - possibly. New Deco/eero/Nest/Orbi home mesh kit - may work. New Asus routers - also an option. In Europe home kits with PLA link are available - may also work. The brand? - we'll get to this later, but let's start somewhere with numbers. Otherwise - nice talking to you, how's the weather?

Its getting bad v cold wind 80mph gales up north. Im down SE we get the best uk weather all round. Yes Ill put together a kit list and ground plan. I think this board allows a jpg. I use Tapo link ip cameras - good budget kit for home with phone app for android viewing, also iSpy fo pc viewing. Its all improved a lot since 5 years ago. I dont have any IT support.
It occurred to me that being an IT tech must be a gutty job for semi commercial work. Almost no tech support for home networks (unless you buy from a system supplier or can find a tame school kid nerd). I imagine that offering to install cheap home network from ebay bits like me you would be constantly on call out. But then I wonder how Joe Public manages with pc/windows bought from a store. Ive been with PCs since M$ 3.1. So much is soaked into my skin that I dont know why I know things but anyone starting out especially 21 and not brought up with a windows pc. I would say - get an Apple - works straight out of the box - but costs twice as much. I guess IT stuff must be the same learning curve issue

A tool like UniFi Design Center may help you plan your space. You need to upload floor plan and draw the walls, different material options are available. Pick something close to what you have. Then place some U6 Mesh APs around (they have similar range to home router and omnidirectional pattern) and see the resulting heat map. It will give you general idea how many APs you need and in what locations. Then you can replicate what you see with the equipment available, easier for you to setup and closer matching your budget. The result won't be exactly the same due to hardware differences, but close enough and better than total guessing.

UniFi Design Center:

Similar Omada Network Deployment Advisor:

I don't know how well something like this will work for you, but has surprisingly high rating on Amazon UK. Not the latest and greatest, but £120 for 3-pack:

Another similar product in higher class, this one is more expensive at £224 for 3-pack:

And another one from Asus, I see price around £100 per unit:

None of the above sets is ideal, but may work better than wirelessly linked mesh.

Oh wow Buddy Im blow away thanx 10^6. I wonder why these options didnt pop up when I was ggling? IMO its these ratfaced marketeers that get in the way of honest engineering and deliberately confused a simple customer into the latest greatest whizz bang sh8t he doesnt need. This is a common dirty trick on the web I find. Wastes so much of my time.