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Retr0

Occasional Visitor
Hi,
I have a wifi router with 2x QCN5054 4x4:4 chips, and I don't understand something.
When using 80MHz, both chips work together to create 8-streams, where a single stream can deliver 600Mbps, so 6x8=4.8Gbps
When using 160MHz, both chips work together to create 8-streams, where a single stream can deliver 1200Mbps, so 1200x8=9.6Gbps
But the internet says something else, that this router can only handle 160MHz in 80+80 mode.

How does this 80+80 work, because my intel ax210 nic, which is 2x2, has a link speed of 2.4Gbps, also inssider shows that my wifi network is capable of 9607Mbps/8 streams.
 

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Hi,
I have a wifi router with 2x QCN5054 4x4:4 chips, and I don't understand something.
When using 80MHz, both chips work together to create 8-streams, where a single stream can deliver 600Mbps, so 6x8=4.8Gbps
When using 160MHz, both chips work together to create 8-streams, where a single stream can deliver 1200Mbps, so 1200x8=9.6Gbps
But the internet says something else, that this router can only handle 160MHz in 80+80 mode.

How does this 80+80 work, because my intel ax210 nic, which is 2x2, has a link speed of 2.4Gbps, also inssider shows that my wifi network is capable of 9607Mbps/8 streams.

80+80 is a way of avoiding DFS channels and not that many client cards support it. Both AP and client must support it. Basically it uses the high and low channels on either side of DFS (assuming you're in a country where the upper channels are available).

I'm not familiar with that router but I don't believe it will bundle 8 streams to the same client, it likely lets you run 4 streams to two different clients by using two different radios and SSIDs. 4 stream clients are also pretty uncommon.

You're not going to get 5 or 10 gig on wifi, so get that idea out of your mind......
 
It's a zyxel armor g5 which is identical to a rax120. I'm not trying to achieve 5 gig on wifi, I never said that. I just want to understand how is my intel ax210 capable of a phy speed of 2.4Gbps if this router is only capable of 80+80, afaik ax210 does not support 80+80?
 
It's a zyxel armor g5 which is identical to a rax120. I'm not trying to achieve 5 gig on wifi, I never said that. I just want to understand how is my intel ax210 capable of a phy speed of 2.4Gbps if this router is only capable of 80+80, afaik ax210 does not support 80+80?

I don't see why a router would support 80+80 and not 160 and never heard of that being the case, so most likely you are connecting at normal 160 and whatever you read was wrong. If it shows a 2.4G link rate (which is the max the ax210 can support on 5ghz) that has to be the case.
 
This router is advertised as AX6000, 1.2Gbps+4.8Gbps.
What am I missing here, everyone says that when using 160MHz the router becomes only 4x4.
I tought that enabeling 160MHz disables one chip, but the math doesn't add up, since the network is shown as 9600Mbps/8 streams. @avtella , @thiggins

80+80 means the 8 channels can be contiguous or non-contiguous ( split into two groups of 4)

This is what confuses me, if this router is indeed using 80+80, how is my intel ax210 able to connect with a phy speed of 2.4Gbps?
I'm trying to understand how are the radios working when enabeling 160MHz?
 

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This router is advertised as AX6000, 1.2Gbps+4.8Gbps.
What am I missing here, everyone says that when using 160MHz the router becomes only 4x4.
I tought that enabeling 160MHz disables one chip, but the math doesn't add up, since the network is shown as 9600Mbps/8 streams. @avtella , @thiggins

80+80 means the 8 channels can be contiguous or non-contiguous ( split into two groups of 4)

This is what confuses me, if this router is indeed using 80+80, how is my intel ax210 able to connect with a phy speed of 2.4Gbps?
I'm trying to understand how are the radios working when enabeling 160MHz?

Your router is not using 80+80 if the AX210 is connecting at 2.4, that's what I'm trying to tell you. It is using regular old contiguous 160 and overlapping DFS. You should be able to see in the router what the control channel and extension channels are. I've never seen 80+80 used to describe 8 contiguous channels, that is simply 160.

The AX210 will connect at 2.4Gbit when using 160mhz (8 channels, 2 streams). If the router is advertising that it is capable of 160x8, the intel card can see that, but it can't use it.

I'm looking at the spec for that chip configuration and it basically is using two 4 stream 80mhz radios. This means when they are combined, you can either run 80 mhz 8 stream, or 160mhz 4 stream. Either way, you're limited to 4.8G. I'm guessing that's where the 80+80 confusion is coming from, that it is combining two 80mhz chips, but that is just 160, not 80+80.

It may be able to run in 80+80 mode, but that's a totally separate thing from just running two chips to make up 160mhz, basically ignore that for this discussion. Even in 80+80 mode you'd be running 4 streams or 4.8G max (and 80+80 performance often suffers more than straight 160).

Right now you're running plain old 160mhz 2 stream and that's all the AX210 can handle. Inssider is seeing that it is capable of 160 and 8 streams (separately), and just calculating the value incorrectly.

I see where you got the 80+80 thing from, dongknowstech - I hate to say it but from what i've seen, dong doesn't really know tech, he just knows how to get referral payments from amazon.

Nothing much really supports true 80+80 mode, it isn't really being actively developed anymore.

The specs for both the Zyxel and Netgear are a bit misleading. They do cover their butt by saying 4.8G max, but saying 8 streams and 160mhz are supported is somewhat false.

Long story short, that router is capable of 4.8 gigs, and you can either run it 160mhz 4 stream or 80mhz 8 stream depending what you have for clients. In your case, 160x4 stream makes sense since the intel card can only use 2 streams so you want as much bandwidth on those two streams as you can get.

Of course 160mhz can be problematic if you have radar nearby, and it is reduced range and will often fall to 80 or even 40. 80x2 may prove to be better/more stable, and 1.2 gigs (800-900M actual throughput) should be plenty, any more than that you should be wired anyway.
 
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I got my info from this forum.

I understood that 80MHz uses both radios to create 8 streams, but I don't understand how 160MHz is created.
If it only uses one radio, that would mean that the other one is disabled, and a single radio is capable of HT160, and inssider is wrong.
I couldn't find any datasheet for QCN5054
 
I got my info from this forum.

I understood that 80MHz uses both radios to create 8 streams, but I don't understand how 160MHz is created.
If it only uses one radio, that would mean that the other one is disabled, and a single radio is capable of HT160, and inssider is wrong.
I couldn't find any datasheet for QCN5054

160 combines both radios. They are 80mhz radios so a single one can't do 160.
You can either combine frequency or streams, not both. So you get 160x4 or 80x8. If it does support 80+80 it would be 80x4 + 80x4 but that configuration still results in 160x4.
 
Is this how a single 160MHz stream is created from using both radios?
1x80MHz stream from the first radio + 1x80MHz stream from the second radio = 1x160MHz stream.
Did I get it right?
 
No.

160MHz stream needs to be created by using contiguous channels.
 
Is this how a single 160MHz stream is created from using both radios?
1x80MHz stream from the first radio + 1x80MHz stream from the second radio = 1x160MHz stream.
Did I get it right?

From what I can see they're using two 4 stream 80mhz radio chips with a combiner/coupler to create either 160mhz or 8 streams. So don't think of it as two streams, when it leaves the combiner, it is a single 160mhz contiguous block.

In other words, pretend that "2xQCN5054" is a single chip, forget the fact there are two radios in the package.

Based on the fact that router has no "5ghz-2" radio that you can configure, that's the only logical explanation, confirmed by the fact that it can only run EITHER 80x8 OR 160x4
 

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