2 routers, same SSID, wireless connection problems

[driver7]

Hello everyone, I'm having Wireless connection problems in my home. I've got a split level house which makes it nearly impossible to cover the entire thing with one wireless router given the placement of the bathrooms. So the best option was to use two routers, one Asus RT AC-66R (router mode), and one Asus RT AC-68R (access point mode). I've enclosed a rough drawing of the network. The AC-66R is connected to the cable modem, and the AC-68R is connected to the AC-66R via Powerline Adapters.

The problem I'm having is after a while, wireless clients that are nearer to the AC-68R are eventually losing connection, and if I try to reconnect to it, it simply sits there forever trying to reconnect. If I reboot the AC-68R it will work for a while, but go back to the problem after a couple of hours.

A few other things of note, wireless clients nearer to the AC-66R have zero problems. More than one type of wireless device (iPad's/Android tabs/PC's) have the problem. There doesn't appear to be any obvious errors, the only one that seems a bit odd is this one from the AC-66R:

Feb 23 15:49:10 kernel: eth1: received packet with own address as source address

There are no errors in the AC-68R's log, and almost nothing is in it.

Here's my settings for my routers:
both router's guest network is disabled
both router's wps is disabled

AC-66R Settings:
Router Mode
SSID Yogi
WPA2 Personal/AES
Lan IP 192.168.1.1
Netmask 255.255.255.0
DHCP Enabled, range 192.168.1.2 to .249
Manual IP Assignment enabled, 1 reserved ip 192.168.1.249 for the AC-68R
(previously I had the AC-68R's ip set outside of the DHCP range to .251, it still had the same problems)
WAN Settings are all auto
Wireless channel control set to auto

AC-68R Settings:
Access Point Mode
5ghz Wireless disabled
SSID Yogi
WPA2 Personal/AES
Auto IP off
Lan IP 192.168.1.249
(previously I had the AC-68R's ip set outside of the DHCP range to .251, it still had the same problems)
Netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers set to my ISP's server and 8.8.8.8
Auto connect to DNS server disabled
Wireless channel control set to auto

The AC-66R is about 6 months old, the AC-68R is about a month old.

Anyone have any ideas? I'm starting to pull my hair out.

 

[sm00thpapa]

Where are your power line adapters located? Is one of them in an upstairs bedroom?

 

[sfx2000]

You have a DHCP conflict...

Rule of thumb - keep static IP's in one range, DHCP in another (and VPN in another perhaps, as there are routing issues there if you're not careful).

So...that being said...

DHCP range for the DHCP server (and remember, only one) - 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.199 - use the DHCP ranges for clients that attach to the VLAN...

Static IP's - keep this in the 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.99 range - quick tip here is to keep things on an interval - for example, 192.168.1.5 for the other AP, 192.168.1.10 for the first homeplug, 192.168.1.20 for the second, and so forth... I would strongly suggest that fixed assets like NAS and Printers also are statically assigned here.

good luck!

 

[driver7]

Where are your power line adapters located? Is one of them in an upstairs bedroom?

Yes, they are at nearly opposite ends of the house, but the connection strength is good as far as I can tell. The plugs I use are Actiontec 500 AV's.

You have a DHCP conflict...

Rule of thumb - keep static IP's in one range, DHCP in another (and VPN in another perhaps, as there are routing issues there if you're not careful).

So...that being said...

DHCP range for the DHCP server (and remember, only one) - 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.199 - use the DHCP ranges for clients that attach to the VLAN...

Static IP's - keep this in the 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.99 range - quick tip here is to keep things on an interval - for example, 192.168.1.5 for the other AP, 192.168.1.10 for the first homeplug, 192.168.1.20 for the second, and so forth... I would strongly suggest that fixed assets like NAS and Printers also are statically assigned here.

good luck!

I will give it a whirl tonight after everyone else is asleep. Heaven forbid they go without their internet for a while. Thanks for your time.

 

[CaptainSTX]

Set the router and the AP to different channels to avoid them interferring with each other. Put one on 1 and the other on 6 or 11. Use inSSIDer to pick least used channels.

You may also want to use a different SSID for each radio at least while you trouble shoot.

 

[stevech]

Configure the added router to be an access point, (AP), not a router.
One DHCP server - in the router. The AP mode disables the DHCP server in the added router when that router is reconfigured to be an AP, as discussed at...

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...onvert-a-wireless-router-into-an-access-point

This also eliminates the mess that happens with cascaded routers (double NAT). The WAN port on the now-is-AP goes unused.

Yes, give each a unique SSID.
Can be on same channels unless one or both concurrently carry heavy traffic.

 

[sfx2000]

stevech - I respect your knowledge and insight... you're off-base here.

He has a network layer conflict, which is above 802.11 - let him sort that out first before going to distinct SSID's....

sfx

 

[jlake]

I think those errors in logs appear because with Asus routers in AP mode, it is a smart bridge and you are using the same SSID's.

It's not like the old days when you cascaded your Linksys WRT54G in a LAN-to-LAN cascade and the connection was not a smart bridge. You could get away scott free with syncing your AP's wireless settings (same SSIDs etc) because the connection was not a smart bridge.

Times have changed (depending on the vendor). An Asus in AP mode is a wired smart bridge. Linksys now has what they call "Bridge Mode", which is also a wired bridge. Linksys only started adding it's AP Mode/Bridge Mode in 2011. So if you don't keep up with the ever changing world of technology, it's easy to get left behind when changes occur. (happens to me all the time)

I tried to explain more in link below:

http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=15650

If you still have questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to explain it to you.

BTW, it's perfectly fine to use the WAN port on an Asus router that is in AP mode. Times are a changin'!!

 

[sm00thpapa]

Power line doesn't work in bedrooms due to a fire safety circuit that doesn't let signal through unless you have a certain type of circuit breaker. Check this first before doing anything above or your wasting your time trying them.

 

[sm00thpapa]

Read this and check your fuse box.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/lanwan-basics/31238-slow-homeplug-five-ways-to-boost-powerline-network-speed?start=1

 

[jlake]

Power line doesn't work in bedrooms due to a fire safety circuit that doesn't let signal through unless you have a certain type of circuit breaker. Check this first before doing anything above or your wasting your time trying them.

That's a possibility but he's got to do the easy basic trouble shooting steps first. He's got both of them on auto channel and probably 20/40 width.

Basic troubleshooting steps:

http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=12453

 

[KGB7]

1. Manually set LAN IP on 66R to 192.160.100.1

2. Manually set LAN IP on 68R to 192.160.100.10

3. Manually assign same channel on both routers.

4. Keep 68R in Wireless router mode (Default).

5. From 66R LAN port, connect the Ethernet wire to 68R WAN port.

6. You can use same SSID or different SSID on both routers, thats up to you. I use separate SSID on both routers, as it gives me a clear definition to which router im connected to. So if there are any issues, then i know for a fact which router is at fault.

7. Try to stay away from Auto settings, its best if you manually input Wifi settings that are based on your needs and your environment.

8. Leave DDNS alone and leave it disabled on both routers.

9. WAN Connection Type - Auto. Leave everything else at default.

10. DNS Servers set to my ISP's server - set it to factory default.

11. Manually power cycle both routers.

 

[L&LD]

KGB7,

3. Same channel?

That is not good advice, even for routers working at opposite ends of a house.

 

[jlake]

I agree that same channel shouldn't be used especially when troubleshooting.

 

[KGB7]

KGB7,

3. Same channel?

That is not good advice, even for routers working at opposite ends of a house.

I agree that same channel shouldn't be used especially when troubleshooting.

So what do you suggest to a person who lives in a neighborhood that is flooded with wifi routers??


Point is, its irrelevant if you use same channel or not. At the end of the day, you chose a channel that is least used or is most compatible with all your devices, a channel that gives you the best compatibility and performance. Thus you have no choice but use same channel on both routers.

 

[L&LD]

No, your logic is flawed.

You still need to use separate channels; it will still be the fastest throughput within the home.

 

[KGB7]

No, your logic is flawed.

You still need to use separate channels; it will still be the fastest throughput within the home.

How or why it will be the fastest??

Just by looking at my phones wifi manager, there are 10 wifi routers that dont belong to my network. Ill bet i can add 5 more to that list, if i walk out side from where im sitting right now in side the house.

So please elaborate.

.

 

[L&LD]

Because the interference will be an order of magnitude higher because of the closer proximity. And the likelihood of other networks transmitting at the exact time is much less than the likelihood of the same network transmitting within the same premises in a router => AP setup.


As an example; when using inssider the best channel indicated may be 1 or 6, however, the best channel is almost always 11 when throughput is tested.

The 'ideal' or 'theoretical' is not always the best. The ideal is what gives the most performance in actual network loads.

Putting two radios in the same area/network on the same channels is the worst of all possible combinations. No matter how it might be justified.

 

[sm00thpapa]

I have a N66W and N66U connected like this and it works fine with no ip address conflict.

Connected via power line downstairs of my home due to it won't work in upstairs bedrooms.

N66W LAN via power line to N66U LAN via powerline

N66W ip address is 192.168.1.1

N66U ip address is 192.168.1.2

The N66W DHCP automatically assigns 192.168.1.2 to the RT-N66U and there are no issues.

DHCP on the N66U is turned off of course.

 

[KGB7]

Because the interference will be an order of magnitude higher because of the closer proximity. And the likelihood of other networks transmitting at the exact time is much less than the likelihood of the same network transmitting within the same premises in a router => AP setup.


As an example; when using inssider the best channel indicated may be 1 or 6, however, the best channel is almost always 11 when throughput is tested.

The 'ideal' or 'theoretical' is not always the best. The ideal is what gives the most performance in actual network loads.

Putting two radios in the same area/network on the same channels is the worst of all possible combinations. No matter how it might be justified.

Thanks for you opinion.