3 story house approx 5K sq ft with limited ethernet wiring

[degrub]

Simplify your life, this isn't a decision you have to make immediately. Drop a MoCA on each floor coupled to a mesh forming a 2gb backhaul to your main router. You'd have an AP on every floor. Even a little RP-AX58 mesh node could suffice backhauled to the main through MoCA.

To keep the full bandwidth of moca 2.5, you have to install as point to point, e.g. a moca modem on each floor and one for each floor in the central location. That way you don't share the total 2.5 Gb/s bandwidth with other nodes on a combined coax installation.
The ethernet port from each moca modem in the central location is connected to a switch, either on the router or a separate switch.

for most home use cases, it doesn't usually matter if the coax is shared among multiple moca nodes as the individual client bandwidth requirement is low.

 

[neil0311]

I know zero about MOCA. Any good tutorials for a newbie?

 

[Tech9]

Get to the MoCA need first. Why solving non-existing problems in advance?

 

[degrub]

I know zero about MOCA. Any good tutorials for a newbie?

Direct runs of quality CAT6 or CAT7 cable properly installed and certified for bandwidth (2.5, 5, or 10Gb/s with 1 Gb/s as minimum) are the preferred solution and are worth investing in if you want max reliability and fewer issues. Some folks advocate for running two cables to each point as pulling and terminating 2 is about the same cost as 1 cable.

Everything else, including MOCA and Wireless backhaul are backup options. Nothing against either ( i use moca ) as they can easily meet your likely needs for a home install.

Well, try reading through some of the threads in the \Lan\MOCA subforum as a start. Look at the sketches too for layout. Look for @krkaufman 's posts as he is deep into the tech.

One key item - do you know the ISP provider yet or even the ISPs serving your new address ?
What technology are they using to the home ?

If a cable company and you will use their service for digital TV or Phone, then you will likely get a cable modem that uses DOCCIS3.1 and have to share some of the coax. The issue is some of the frequency bands used by DOCCIS 3.1 and higher will overlap the frequency bands used by MOCA2.5 . Usually this can be overcome, but at the cost of available bandwidth (2.5 Gb/s to 1 Gb/s) by forcing the MOCA modem to use the HIGH bands. Or if you can isolate the coax runs that you need for ethernet and do point to point, then no conflict and no issues.
If you have no need for TV or Phone service, then you should be able to use the coax as is if point to point or if shared coax, with a replacement splitter certified to moca 2.0 or better.

 

[tgl]

I agree with @degrub's excellent summary except on one point: if you choose to get new ethernet cable pulled, what you want is Cat6 or Cat6A. Cat7 is a different animal: properly installed, it doesn't even use the same terminators (see wikipedia). Either Cat6 or Cat6A will do fine for typical home installs, although if you hope to put 10Gbps through a long run now or in the future, Cat6A is more likely to work. It is more expensive, heavier, and stiffer than Cat6, hence harder to pull.

 

[Wisiwyg]

About 20 years ago I built a 5k sq ft house, 2 stories plus basement. I had 13 'full pulls' wired at the time. For those that haven't done this, a full pull back then was 2x CAT5 and 2X Coax in a single low-voltage wall outlet (CAT6/6A wasn't a thing, then). When I sold it a couple of years ago, I had honed it down to an access point as a mesh node on each floor with wired backhaul to my AX88U running Merlin. I had a small AC range extender in a corner to service an IP camera on the corner eave of the house bc it was so far away and received intermittent signal. Three teenagers streaming and gaming, 2 adults mostly WFH on a 1.2gb Comcast ISP and we never had a bandwidth problem. Moral of this story, about 9 of those full pulls went unused because wifi had progressed to provide more than enough bandwidth for individual systems.

 

[neil0311]

Direct runs of quality CAT6 or CAT7 cable properly installed and certified for bandwidth (2.5, 5, or 10Gb/s with 1 Gb/s as minimum) are the preferred solution and are worth investing in if you want max reliability and fewer issues. Some folks advocate for running two cables to each point as pulling and terminating 2 is about the same cost as 1 cable.

Everything else, including MOCA and Wireless backhaul are backup options. Nothing against either ( i use moca ) as they can easily meet your likely needs for a home install.

Well, try reading through some of the threads in the \Lan\MOCA subforum as a start. Look at the sketches too for layout. Look for @krkaufman 's posts as he is deep into the tech.

One key item - do you know the ISP provider yet or even the ISPs serving your new address ?
What technology are they using to the home ?

If a cable company and you will use their service for digital TV or Phone, then you will likely get a cable modem that uses DOCCIS3.1 and have to share some of the coax. The issue is some of the frequency bands used by DOCCIS 3.1 and higher will overlap the frequency bands used by MOCA2.5 . Usually this can be overcome, but at the cost of available bandwidth (2.5 Gb/s to 1 Gb/s) by forcing the MOCA modem to use the HIGH bands. Or if you can isolate the coax runs that you need for ethernet and do point to point, then no conflict and no issues.
If you have no need for TV or Phone service, then you should be able to use the coax as is if point to point or if shared coax, with a replacement splitter certified to moca 2.0 or better.

Thanks. It’s fiber. My experience is with Comcast and DOCSIS, so not sure exactly how things get setup, but it all is ingressing in the basement.

 

[degrub]

fiber should terminate in an ONT or in a combo ONT/Router. From there it should be ethernet. IF you subscribed to TV/Voice they likely will use the coax since there is not ethernet everywhere. But i don't know Comcast's details. If you can keep them off the two coax runs, then ok.

 

[neil0311]

fiber should terminate in an ONT or in a combo ONT/Router. From there it should be ethernet. IF you subscribed to TV/Voice they likely will use the coax since there is not ethernet everywhere. But i don't know Comcast's details. If you can keep them off the two coax runs, then ok.

It’s not Comcast. It’s a local provider in North Georgia.

 

[tgl]

It’s not Comcast. It’s a local provider in North Georgia.

Are you buying TV or voice phone service from them, or is it strictly internet? If the service is just internet then they're not going to be interested in your coax infrastructure, so you can figure on repurposing that for wired backhaul without any complications.

 

[neil0311]

Are you buying TV or voice phone service from them, or is it strictly internet? If the service is just internet then they're not going to be interested in your coax infrastructure, so you can figure on repurposing that for wired backhaul without any complications.

Definitely don’t need landline phone. Not sure on TV yet. Have been contemplating YouTube TV.

Even if I used some of the coax drops for TV, there would be some left over unused, and they are all home runs to the basement AFAIK.

 

[tgl]

Definitely don’t need landline phone. Not sure on TV yet. Have been contemplating YouTube TV.

Yeah, if you have more-or-less-gigabit internet (which I'd expect for a fiber-based connection) you absolutely do not need dedicated TV service. Even an 8K-resolution stream only needs ~50Mbps download rate. Forget about TV service, instead getting some streaming service(s); then plan on using your coax plant as dedicated ethernet runs, and I think you're good to go.

 

[neil0311]

Yeah, if you have more-or-less-gigabit internet (which I'd expect for a fiber-based connection) you absolutely do not need dedicated TV service. Even an 8K-resolution stream only needs ~50Mbps download rate. Forget about TV service, instead getting some streaming service(s); then plan on using your coax plant as dedicated ethernet runs, and I think you're good to go.

Have been reading up on MOCA adapters and seems like it’s pretty straightforward. Coax into one end and Ethernet out the the other and power, and you’ve got a 2.5 Gb port.

 

[tgl]

Have been reading up on MOCA adapters and seems like it’s pretty straightforward. Coax into one end and Ethernet out the the other and power, and you’ve got a 2.5 Gb port.

Right. It gets harder if you need to share the coax line with TV service, because then you need splitters and filters and such. But a coax line that is not doing anything else is very straightforward to convert to 2.5G ethernet service. Spend about $150 on a pair of adapters, and the job's done.

 

[krkaufman]

Spend about $150 on a pair of adapters

FWIW, if the lack of support and other limitations aren’t a problem, Frontier FCA252 MoCA 2.5 adapters (with 2.5 GbE network port) can be had for about $30 per on eBay.

 

[krkaufman]

Even if I used some of the coax drops for TV, there would be some left over unused, and they are all home runs to the basement AFAIK.

Sharing coax between cable TV and MoCA isn’t an issue, with cable TV signals all below 1002 MHz, leaving the full MoCA Extended Band D range (1125-1675 MHz) available for a full throughput MoCA 2.5 network.

That said, it’s recommended to isolate the ISP/modem feed from the MoCA-infused coax, if at all possible, to prep the setup for use of DOCSIS 3.1+ frequencies above 1002 MHz.

Related: DOCSIS encroachment on the MoCA [Band D] frequency range

 

[degrub]

it's FTTH apparently. From the description, ISP would have to generate a coax signal (no ethernet) to get to any tv boxes if subscribed and if ISP wifi could not reach.

 

[glens]

The only issue I see possible is dependent on whether individual coax runs all come to a central spot or perhaps "split" hither and yon (which in my experience is to be expected).

Either way I'd spend for ethernet runs as needed and save the extra hardware / ongoing-electrical expense and be "done with it" in one fell swoop.

 

[tgl]

Either way I'd spend for ethernet runs as needed and save the extra hardware / ongoing-electrical expense and be "done with it" in one fell swoop.

I don't think the OP ever stated his goals clearly. It sounds to me like a setup with two or three APs using MoCA on dedicated coax for backhaul will be very easy/cheap to get to, while ethernet backhaul for the same setup is going to require an uncertain but probably nontrivial investment. Realistically, the MoCA answer would satisfy the vast majority of people for years to come; it has all the bandwidth you can use with current APs, and the extra couple of milliseconds it adds to round-trip time compared to CAT6 is unlikely to be noticeable. I follow the logic of "do it now, it'll be messier and more expensive to do it later" but I honestly wonder if he'd ever regret not doing it at all.

 

[neil0311]

I don't think the OP ever stated his goals clearly. It sounds to me like a setup with two or three APs using MoCA on dedicated coax for backhaul will be very easy/cheap to get to, while ethernet backhaul for the same setup is going to require an uncertain but probably nontrivial investment. Realistically, the MoCA answer would satisfy the vast majority of people for years to come; it has all the bandwidth you can use with current APs, and the extra couple of milliseconds it adds to round-trip time compared to CAT6 is unlikely to be noticeable. I follow the logic of "do it now, it'll be messier and more expensive to do it later" but I honestly wonder if he'd ever regret not doing it at all.

So apologize if not clear. I know I was clear in my own mind.

Had an update today. Looks like a cat 6 drop to the main floor and 2nd floor is now done. So there will be one Ethernet connection back to the basement patch panel.

So my plan is to start with a RT-AX88U in the basement and create an AI Mesh with the RT-AX86U on the 2nd floor, using wired backhaul.

If coverage isn’t satisfactory, then the contingency is to add a router mesh node on the mail floor.