802.11ax (Wi-Fi 6) when is it worth updgrading to ax routers

[coxhaus]

Most wireless printers ( mine for sure ) only support 2.4Ghz.

Put a wire on it. This seems to be a problem with HP.

 

[Broken Hope]

This should help.

https://www.wi-fi.org/news-events/newsroom/wi-fi-certified-6-delivers-new-wi-fi-era

customers won’t have to guess if it’s supporting all the features or not.

 

[Trip]

I would suggest focusing on properly building out your AC Wave 2 setup for the next year or two. I personally will only look at AX once its well past its first ratified draft, perhaps not even until the second, and there are plenty of business-grade or better products released with well-documented stability. But hey, to each their own.

 

[shareout]

When living in a wifi crowded area, will my wifi still suck if I get wifi 6 devices until everyone else upgrades as well or can it communicate on bands not available to the Wifi5.

I know there are many factors, but just in generel if I should expect an improvement in a super polluted wifi space

 

[thiggins]

AX does not add any new bands.

The theory is that AX will improve airtime use for all devices by freeing up more airtime for older devices. But airtime management is very complex and real world experience may not match up to theory.

Remember that MU-MIMO was also supposed to improve airtime efficiency (5 GHz downlink only). MU-MIMO is now supported in pretty much all AC routers. Have you seen your 5 GHz performance improve (speed, not range).

 

[shareout]

AX does not add any new bands.

The theory is that AX will improve airtime use for all devices by freeing up more airtime for older devices. But airtime management is very complex and real world experience may not match up to theory.

Remember that MU-MIMO was also supposed to improve airtime efficiency (5 GHz downlink only). MU-MIMO is now supported in pretty much all AC routers. Have you seen your 5 GHz performance improve (speed, not range).

I dont have a AX router yet, only a AX200 ordered. But I might get a benefit from getting an AX router just for getting MU-MIMO which my old RT-AC66U (Not B1) router do not support. But mostly it sounds like me upgrading to AX almost benefits my neighbors more than me :/

 

[thiggins]

I dont have a AX router yet, only a AX200 ordered. But I might get a benefit from getting an AX router just for getting MU-MIMO which my old RT-AC66U (Not B1) router do not support. But mostly it sounds like me upgrading to AX almost benefits my neighbors more than me :/

You don't benefit from MU-MIMO unless your devices support it. Good luck finding out that information, especially for smartphones and tablets.

When AX is working and there are many AX devices, all users on a channel should benefit. The more efficient AX devices will (theoretically) free up bandwidth for other devices to use.

 

[shareout]

You don't benefit from MU-MIMO unless your devices support it. Good luck finding out that information, especially for smartphones and tablets.

When AX is working and there are many AX devices, all users on a channel should benefit. The more efficient AX devices will (theoretically) free up bandwidth for other devices to use.

The AX200 should have support for MU-MIMO according to https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189347/intel-wi-fi-6-ax200.html

 

[thiggins]

The AX200 should have support for MU-MIMO according to https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/189347/intel-wi-fi-6-ax200.html

Yeah, should. Here is exactly what it is certified for (Windows OS)

 

[RMerlin]

You don't benefit from MU-MIMO unless your devices support it. Good luck finding out that information, especially for smartphones and tablets.

And manufacturers don't seem too keen on supporting MU-MIMO in client devices. I have two mobile devices that were manufactured in 2019 (a Galaxy Tab S5e and a Huawei P30), and neither of these support MU-MIMO.

The only MU-MIMO client I ever owned so far was my previous Nexus 5X.

 

[thiggins]

And manufacturers don't seem too keen on supporting MU-MIMO in client devices. I have two mobile devices that were manufactured in 2019 (a Galaxy Tab S5e and a Huawei P30), and neither of these support MU-MIMO.

The only MU-MIMO client I ever owned so far was my previous Nexus 5X.

I think it's more often found in laptops.

 

[ddarko]

I'm a little surprised by the discussion about the scarcity of MU-MIMO wifi client devices. This article on howtogeek.com says that the iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max and Pixel 3 support 2x2 MIMO wifi. And I found lots of links and discussions, including on SNB, about Samsung's Galaxy phone with MU-MIMO wifi going back to the Galaxy 7 lineup. Here's the Samsung spec page for the Galaxy 8 that lists "Wi-Fi 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac (2.4/5GHz),VHT80 MU-MIMO,1024QAM." The spec is carried over to the Galaxy 9 and Galaxy 10 (with the addition of 802.11ax to the Galaxy 10). Those phones alone make up hundreds of millions of client devices with MU-MIMO wifi.

 

[thiggins]

iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max and Pixel 3 support 2x2 MIMO wifi.

MIMO is not the same as MU-MIMO. MIMO technology is used in 802.11ac

 

[ddarko]

MIMO is not the same as MU-MIMO. MIMO technology is used in 802.11ac

Fair enough about the article I linked to discussing iPhones support for MIMO but the Galaxy spec pages specifically say the phones support MU-MIMO.

https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s8/specs/

https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s9/specs/

https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/what-is/network/

https://news.samsung.com/global/sam...stry-with-new-standards-in-wi-fi-connectivity

 

[thiggins]

Fair enough about the article I linked to discussing iPhones support for MIMO but the Galaxy spec pages specifically say the phones support MU-MIMO.

Yes. I'm not questioning that. Just wanted to make sure readers don't conflate MIMO and MU-MIMO.

 

[RMerlin]

Those phones alone make up hundreds of millions of client devices with MU-MIMO wifi.

But if your phone (assuming you have a Samsung, not all of us do) is your only MU-MIMO device, it will bring you no benefits at home.

Might be a different story at work where you can have multiple mobile phones, but then do mobile phones belong on a business's wifi network?

 

[Val D.]

it will bring you no benefits at home

Drawbacks only, actually. Only 2 of my 20 devices support MU-MIMO and if I enable it on the router, other devices suffer from lower link rates. It's one of those working in theory only features, more marketing than usability.

 

[RMerlin]

Drawbacks only, actually. Only 2 of my 20 devices support MU-MIMO and if I enable it on the router, other devices suffer from lower link rates. It's one of those working in theory only features, more marketing than usability.

That's odd, because I wouldn't expect MU-MIMO to have an impact on the link rate, only on throughput.

 

[ddarko]

But if your phone (assuming you have a Samsung, not all of us do) is your only MU-MIMO device, it will bring you no benefits at home.

Might be a different story at work where you can have multiple mobile phones, but then do mobile phones belong on a business's wifi network?

The tangible benefits of MU-MIMO to users is different from the topic that caught my eye, re: the scarcity of devices with MU-MIMO. Samsung is a single device maker but they're obviously a big/the biggest one and they've had MU-MIMO for multiple generations now in their flagship lineup. I appreciate it's a matter of perspective - you are going by number of devices with MU-MIMO (Samsung Galaxy 8 = 1 device) while I'm looking at it from number of clients (10 million Samsung Galaxy 8 phones).

And a single person is unlikely to have enough client devices going simultaneously that he or she could benefit from techniques like MU-MIMO. But a family with parents and kids at home together? I think the potential benefits of MU-MIMO in a family household are easy to imagine.

 

[Val D.]

That's odd, because I wouldn't expect MU-MIMO to have an impact on the link rate, only on throughput.

Devices with 866Mbps link rate before MU-MIMO activation drop to 580Mbps, sometimes to 433mbps with MU-MIMO. Don’t know why. So for the small eventual benefit MU-MIMO provides to some devices other devices actually slow down.