88U vs 86U

[Patrick de Souza]

Hi
Until today, I thought the 88U was newer than 86U. Which one of the 2 would give out better wifi range? I live in a split level home. I had the N66U which did the job very well. Full wifi signals entire house including the laundry toilet a floor down at the back.
Thanks

 

[RMerlin]

Wifi range should be almost identical with both.

When dealing with those high-end routers, there's very little difference between them. They're actually using the same wifi chip. The laws of physics are the limiting factor.

 

[Patrick de Souza]

Wifi range should be almost identical with both.

When dealing with those high-end routers, there's very little difference between them. They're actually using the same wifi chip. The laws of physics are the limiting factor.

Many thanks. Even though 88U has 4 antennas? Oh...86U has one internal I think

 

[RMerlin]

Many thanks. Even though 88U has 4 antennas? Oh...86U has one internal I think

The number of antennas doesn't make a big difference on range, it's mostly needed for additional streams. I might help with coverage a bit by increasing signal diversity, but I wouldn't chose my router based on its number of antennas.

 

[Patrick de Souza]

The number of antennas doesn't make a big difference on range, it's mostly needed for additional streams. I might help with coverage a bit by increasing signal diversity, but I wouldn't chose my router based on its number of antennas.

If it was you which one would you get?
Thanks
Pat

 

[Internet Man]

Get whichever is cheapest. That likely is the RT-AC86U. The RT-AC86U also has a faster CPU and newer radios. All you'd be missing out on are four extra Ethernet ports on the back and a fourth stream for 2.4GHz 802.11n which very few clients could fully utilize anyways. It also looks like DFS support is at least planned for the RT-AC86U which would give you more room to avoid interference on the 5GHz band.

 

[RMerlin]

If it was you which one would you get?
Thanks
Pat

My needs are different from yours. I personally have both, but for now I'm using the RT-AC88U since I spend too much time doing development work on the AC86U. Both of these are able to reach every corners of this small apartment, and both or these are doing fine with my 30 Mbps Internet connection as well.

The main issue at this time with the RT-AC86U is its software. Broadcom did a few stupid things with it, and I'm still trying to deal with that...

 

[muckle_dabuckle]

This is all coming from a networking layperson so take this however:

I would go with the cheapest being you weren't having difficulties with signal strength on your old router. I personally wouldn't buy an expensive router (88U) that is already 2-years-old mainly because you already lost two years worth of software updates (Asus won't update it forever). The 86U just came out this year so it is possible you will get official software support longer (at least that is what I'm hoping because I bought the 86U).

I've had the 86U for two weeks now and it has survived the the Black Friday sales onslaught. I could've gotten the Netgear R7800 for $70 cheaper or the Synology RT2600ac for $60 cheaper or the 88U for $20 cheaper. I stuck with the 86U because it is newer (so hopefully longer firmware support), has good security features, is from an established manufacturer, and has gotten decent reviews (the 88U has been getting destroyed recently in Amazon reviews for faulty hardware).

We live in a modified-split house with four separate levels and I get close to full bars everywhere in the house, yard, garage with the 86U (basically the same as my old Netgear R7000). I've had a few issues with my 86U hardware buttons (Wi-Fi, LED, WPS) not working, but a router reboot fixed that for a week now.

I guess no matter what you decide it is a great time to buy a router with the extended holiday return policy at most retailers (January 31, 2018 seems the most common -- gives you two months to make sure a router works if you buy one now). If you really had your mind set on the 88U I bet it goes on sale one more time before Christmas.

 

[Keenan]

My needs are different from yours. I personally have both, but for now I'm using the RT-AC88U since I spend too much time doing development work on the AC86U. Both of these are able to reach every corners of this small apartment, and both or these are doing fine with my 30 Mbps Internet connection as well.

The main issue at this time with the RT-AC86U is its software. Broadcom did a few stupid things with it, and I'm still trying to deal with that...

Are these Broadcom software issues something that seems likely to be rectified? I just ordered an 86U to replace my aging N66U and your comment makes me wonder if I should look elsewhere for a new router. I guess the question is, what are those issues, and are they likely to noticeably impact everyday use? Most of my focus is on wired use but reliance on wireless is growing very quickly in my household.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Patrick de Souza]

Many thanks for all the responses. 86U it is I am in Sydney Australia and 86U is exclusively available through a bloody expensive retailer.

Curious to know too what are the Broadcom software issues and whether they impact everyday wired and wireless use?

Thanks you

 

[RMerlin]

Are these Broadcom software issues something that seems likely to be rectified?

Some are being taken care of by Asus (various stability issues that affected the first few firmware releases for instance), others by myself in my custom firmware. And some will never be fully addressed. For instance, Broadcom seems to have no intention of addressing their stupid design decision limiting nvram values to 1000 chars max - that's barely enough for a few DHCP static leases if you use my firmware and provide hostnames along with the reservations. I suspect there's still a few bugs in the stock firmware related to nvram values being truncated after 1000 characters (or after 255 characters if the setting isn't properly defined in libshared).

Today I took care of the DHCP static lease issue I was mentioning, by splitting DHCP static leases across 10 separate nvram settings (giving me 2500 characters to store them instead of only 1000). Yes, it's kludgy, wastes a fair amount of nvram, but it's the best that can be done, short of storing everything in jffs instead, and losing the ability to easily backup/restore your settings.

Another oddity is Broadcom's software reserves 13% of the total RAM for its own internal uses. That means out of 512 MB, you only have 440 MB available for use by the firmware. I have a hard time believing that their software stack truly requires that much RAM pre-allocated and dedicated. We're not talking about a core router here, but a home gateway...

The router is still very usable, its hardware is still impressive for a router. If I didn't spend so much time flashing test builds on it, I would probably be using it in place of my RT-AC88U as my main router, mostly for its fast CPU. It's just very disappointing to see such powerful hardware's potential being held back by Broadcom's software and some dubious design decisions.

 

[RMerlin]

Curious to know too what are the Broadcom software issues and whether they impact everyday wired and wireless use?

The biggest issue is if you configure a lot of entries in the port forward list, the DHCP static lease, etc... Even tho the webui might allow up to 32 or 64 entries, they can be quietly rejected if the resulting configuration is too large to fit within 1000 characters.

Otherwise, the wifi and wired performance are quite solid. The VPN and SMB performance is above all other routers I've seen so far in that price category.

Asus seems to have addressed most of the stability issues by now. I have no problem getting a few days of uptime out of my test device.

 

[Keenan]

Thanks for the info. Given that I only casually play with different settings and configurations and only set about 4-5 devices with manual IP addresses, and the fact that the hardware itself is very capable as far as wired/wireless goes I think I made a good choice. I looked at a comparable Netgear but I've been using Asus for quite some time and have been very happy with their products, plus, I like the idea that there's someone like you who tries to create a better device without making it so bleeding edge that you spend more time babysitting it than actually forgetting about the device and enjoying what it provides for you.

Thanks!

 

[maxbraketorque]

Wifi range should be almost identical with both.

When dealing with those high-end routers, there's very little difference between them. They're actually using the same wifi chip. The laws of physics are the limiting factor.

Interesting comment. My hope has always been that the speed measurements (especially the speed vs attenuation) provided in the SNB reviews are a good metric for selecting a router, and for these tests, the 86U gets soundly beaten by many other routers. Your comment would seem to suggest that those results don't have much bearing on reality. I have been looking for another router with potentially better range, and I just grabbed an RT-AC3100 because it looks to me that despite its age, it should still cleanly beat the RT-AC86U for wireless speeds based on the SNB reviews. I'm not looking for any confirmation that I made a good choice because I'll test the router to see if its better than my RT-AC68U, and if its not, I'll return it. Instead I'm curious as any opinion on the accuracy of the SNB reviews.

 

[RMerlin]

I don't see anything on Tim's review showing the RT-AC86U as being "soundly beaten". In fact on the 5 GHz tests it was the only device that made it up to 42 dB, all others dropping at 39 dB. This would actually indicate a better range on the RT-AC86U than all other listed models.

All four models tested were all within an acceptable margin of error:

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wir...900-wireless-router-reviewed?showall=&start=2

When comparing performance, make sure you compare them based on the same test platform. Tim regularly updates the test platform, which means you can't directly compare results between different test methods.

I fully trust Tim's numbers when it comes to wireless performance.

 

[maxbraketorque]

I don't see anything on Tim's review showing the RT-AC86U as being "soundly beaten". In fact on the 5 GHz tests it was the only device that made it up to 42 dB, all others dropping at 39 dB. This would actually indicate a better range on the RT-AC86U than all other listed models.

All four models tested were all within an acceptable margin of error:

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wir...900-wireless-router-reviewed?showall=&start=2

When comparing performance, make sure you compare them based on the same test platform. Tim regularly updates the test platform, which means you can't directly compare results between different test methods.

I fully trust Tim's numbers when it comes to wireless performance.

A great deal on an RT-AC3100 came up, so I grabbed one. I spent the better part of the weekend tinkering with speed tests and Smart Connect. I tried hard to make Smart Connect work, but ultimately, I gave up. Speed test comparisons were no problem, and for that, the RT-AC3100 (A6) soundly beat my RT-AC68U (B1) both in near field and far field tests with my 2016 Macbook Pro (N/AC 3x3). AC link rates and measured up/down speeds both near (within 15 ft AC) and far (50+ feet N, 2.4 GHz) from the router were double or nearly double. I found that if I gave the 5 GHz band its own SSID and gave it preference over the 2.4 GHz band in my MBP wireless settings, my MBP would stay connected to AC in the long range tests, and in those cases, speeds were quadruple compared to what my RT-AC68U would do in those locations on N, 2.4 GHz. This is quite different than what I expected would happen based on the router ranker tests. I was guessing a slight benefit or null benefit for the RT-AC3100.

I guess I wonder how the RT-AC86U would perform in comparison. Its tempting to pickup an RT-AC86U today, compare it to the RT-AC3100, and sell whichever one loses the battle.

 

[doczenith1]

I guess I wonder how the RT-AC86U would perform in comparison. Its tempting to pickup an RT-AC86U today, compare it to the RT-AC3100, and sell whichever one loses the battle.

As I mentioned in your other thread I will soon be comparing my new 86U to my 68U. Am also looking forward to seeing what kind of VPN speeds I can get out of the 86U using PIA.

 

[maxbraketorque]

As I mentioned in your other thread I will soon be comparing my new 86U to my 68U. Am also looking forward to seeing what kind of VPN speeds I can get out of the 86U using PIA.

Looking forward to seeing the results. If you want, I'd be happy to test out your 86U at my house while you figure out the Speedtest stuttering on your Pixel 2XL.

 

[doczenith1]

Openvpn results using PIA are in! The 86U officially kicks butt.
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/openvpn-performance-of-the-rt-ac86u.41217/page-5#post-363201

 

[PiCoTTo]

The biggest issue is if you configure a lot of entries in the port forward list, the DHCP static lease, etc... Even tho the webui might allow up to 32 or 64 entries, they can be quietly rejected if the resulting configuration is too large to fit within 1000 characters.

Otherwise, the wifi and wired performance are quite solid. The VPN and SMB performance is above all other routers I've seen so far in that price category.

Asus seems to have addressed most of the stability issues by now. I have no problem getting a few days of uptime out of my test device.

I didn't knew that VRAM issue. That's a more reason to make me think of replacing my AC86U by an AC88U. Do you think it will be fixed in the future?

I chose the AC86U mainly for its exceptional wall penetration and range, its good small size and form factor, perfect to be placed in front of a small NAS anywhere, and because I thought it had Link Aggregation, as the amazon.co.uk page states.

Now that I've purchased a Link Aggregation capable NAS, was in the hope that at some time in the future, and thank to your work, the bonding driver worked with 802.3ad to take advantage of the 2167mbps AC wi-fi bandwidth, and thus wirelessly distribute data in the NAS with the same theoretical speed of wired LACP.

Could you tell me if this is possible? Even with the AC88U?
If 2000mbps can’t never be reach by LAN-WLAN throughput, I have no problems to purchase a LACP capable switch and keep the AC86U.

I’m a software developer and could help to research how to make Link Aggregation to work in the AC86U. By now, I have succeeded in creating VLANs, each one with only one interface (or port), and bonding them with the driver.

Thank you in advance.