A few questions before I purchase

[Wafflebird]

Trexx/sfx,

Great information here. I am enjoying the discussion. I was unsure of what to expect here and am happy with the ability to have this discussion.

So hypothetical here. TVS-663 6 bay unit. If I set up an iSCSI "Area' of the NAS this would mean that it (the target area) could/would only be used by Windows devices basically? Per the comment of "Black based level" would this have to be a drive per say or could I just set out a section of the total capacity available for this. Also just thinking, it is a 6 bay NAS, so could I not have say 4 bays as one RAID array and then use the two other drives as a separate RAID 1 array so to speak. Would it make sense to have this second array utilized as the iSCSI target. Otherwise I guess I could just make a folder on the NAS and utilize it for the target. I am supposing that it can grow in size simply based on the total capacity of the current RAID storage space available?

Also I am sure that this next question is easy but just want to make sure I can make this happen once set up to do so. I am constantly having to download brochures for equipment onto my work PC (this is another computer I have in addition to my PC I use for the photo editing a Win 7 machine) and I try to keep my phone backed up to match what my computer has on it but in reality this only happens once every month or so. I am thinking that there is a way to make the NAS update my "Folders" folder (where I keep everything work wise, one folder with literally hundreds of folders inside, makes it an easy drag and drop and copy) with each new item that is added on my PC. I have not mentioned it to now I don't think but I have almost all of my equipment hard wired through gigabit switches inside my home. Only tablets and phones and one PC in my sons playroom work over WiFi. What is the utility/system I would need to enable to ensure this happens. It has happened more times than I can remember that I remember downloading a brochure a few days ago but as I have not backed up my phone I do not have it with me mobile wise. I know what you are thinking, man has this guy not heard of Dropbox etc., I have indeed. The only issue with that is that my folders folder is currently sitting @ 61.5 gigabytes, so the NAS would be a much better option without monthly dues.

OK so that is my "Question of the day" well sort of as I asked some earlier today.........

Trying to be as much ahead of the curve as I can be and I look forward to your input.

Thanks,

 

[kamina]

iSCSI will not change how other devices/applications see the shares, so you should be fine there.

It does change how other device see "that share", as it's not really a share, rather something mapped to the host. If you wanted another device to see that same share you would have to unmount it from the original host, map it to the other host and mount it there (assuming the other host supports the same filesystem).

Kind of like a disk attached with USB / Firewire, only this is over ethernet.

 

[Wafflebird]

Roger that so it is like a direct connection to only the PC that it is "Set" to but can be unmounted (just as your example of a flash drive) and mounted to the other Windows PC so to speak. Basically a direct path from the PC to that block. I can see how this would be faster as it is treated as a directly attached block.

Could I do like I had mentioned above and have two storage pools in a 6 drive system?

Thanks,

 

[stevech]

Is there a well written how-to on getting iSCSI on win 7 home premium to target my NAS?
I recall trying it once and the procedure was not clearly explained that I could find.

 

[Trexx]

Trexx/sfx,

So hypothetical here. TVS-663 6 bay unit. If I set up an iSCSI "Area' of the NAS this would mean that it (the target area) could/would only be used by Windows devices basically? Per the comment of "Black based level" would this have to be a drive per say or could I just set out a section of the total capacity available for this. Also just thinking, it is a 6 bay NAS, so could I not have say 4 bays as one RAID array and then use the two other drives as a separate RAID 1 array so to speak. Would it make sense to have this second array utilized as the iSCSI target. Otherwise I guess I could just make a folder on the NAS and utilize it for the target. I am supposing that it can grow in size simply based on the total capacity of the current RAID storage space available?

Also I am sure that this next question is easy but just want to make sure I can make this happen once set up to do so. I am constantly having to download brochures for equipment onto my work PC (this is another computer I have in addition to my PC I use for the photo editing a Win 7 machine) and I try to keep my phone backed up to match what my computer has on it but in reality this only happens once every month or so. I am thinking that there is a way to make the NAS update my "Folders" folder (where I keep everything work wise, one folder with literally hundreds of folders inside, makes it an easy drag and drop and copy) with each new item that is added on my PC. I have not mentioned it to now I don't think but I have almost all of my equipment hard wired through gigabit switches inside my home. Only tablets and phones and one PC in my sons playroom work over WiFi. What is the utility/system I would need to enable to ensure this happens. It has happened more times than I can remember that I remember downloading a brochure a few days ago but as I have not backed up my phone I do not have it with me mobile wise. I know what you are thinking, man has this guy not heard of Dropbox etc., I have indeed. The only issue with that is that my folders folder is currently sitting @ 61.5 gigabytes, so the NAS would be a much better option without monthly dues.

OK so that is my "Question of the day" well sort of as I asked some earlier today.........

Trying to be as much ahead of the curve as I can be and I look forward to your input.

Thanks,

You would create a Storage Pool with your 6 Drives at which point you would define your Raid level (5/10/etc.). Then within that Storage Pool, you create Volumes which are your space allocations to iSCSI, normal NAS, etc. The best route to go generally is to use ALL your drives in the storage pool since that will give you the most Disk I/O and minimize your storage loss due to RAID overhead.

Here is a good article on the process. https://www.qnap.com/i/en/trade_teach/con_show.php?op=showone&cid=91

As for your Brochure syncing use case, one option is to leverage Qnap's QSync. Basically think of it as your own private dropbox service. You would place your brochure folders in there, and any device setup with qsync would get a copy of them.

Here is another tutorial on it. https://www.qnap.com/i/en/trade_teach/con_show.php?op=showone&cid=62

For remote use, I would recommend leveraging QNAP's OpenVPN capability along with QSync to make sure none of your login information is exposed (if you want to be super secure). I have my iPad setup so that I can connect to my QNAP via openVPN and access any information on it if I want.

There are other "dropbox" type apps, and remote access options for the QNAP.

If you are going to have multiple devices hitting the NAS at the same time, you will benefit from the multiple Gig port teaming capability (802.3ad), but you will need a switch that supports it. I picked up an 8-port Cisco switch (SG200-8) and it has worked well.

I think this covers all the questions for today

 

[Wafflebird]

You would create a Storage Pool with your 6 Drives at which point you would define your Raid level (5/10/etc.). Then within that Storage Pool, you create Volumes which are your space allocations to iSCSI, normal NAS, etc. The best route to go generally is to use ALL your drives in the storage pool since that will give you the most Disk I/O and minimize your storage loss due to RAID overhead.

Here is a good article on the process. https://www.qnap.com/i/en/trade_teach/con_show.php?op=showone&cid=91

As for your Brochure syncing use case, one option is to leverage Qnap's QSync. Basically think of it as your own private dropbox service. You would place your brochure folders in there, and any device setup with qsync would get a copy of them.

Here is another tutorial on it. https://www.qnap.com/i/en/trade_teach/con_show.php?op=showone&cid=62

For remote use, I would recommend leveraging QNAP's OpenVPN capability along with QSync to make sure none of your login information is exposed (if you want to be super secure). I have my iPad setup so that I can connect to my QNAP via openVPN and access any information on it if I want.

There are other "dropbox" type apps, and remote access options for the QNAP.

If you are going to have multiple devices hitting the NAS at the same time, you will benefit from the multiple Gig port teaming capability (802.3ad), but you will need a switch that supports it. I picked up an 8-port Cisco switch (SG200-8) and it has worked well.

I think this covers all the questions for today

Ok new day a few more questions, hopefully they are getting better defined however.

I think using the NAS as one storage unit is better than dividing it up regardless. When you say "You would place your brochure folders in there, and any device setup with qsync would get a copy of them." do you mean that the phone would actually download a copy of it? All I am after is being able to access the brochures/Sales/ etc., folders basically all of the information I have in that 60+ gig file from whenever. What I would like to do is ensure the NAS and the work PC to stay at the same level of information. So If I download the new 229D2 brochure into my equipment folder on the work PC the NAS would recognize that there was an update and simply copy it over to the NAS. Then if I am out on the road and I am discussing this particular machine with someone then I can log onto the 663 and e-mail them the brochure. Same goes for if I am out on the road and my Sales Manager and I are discussing a certain deal I am working and he wants to see my workup sheet on the deal I could log on and send it from on the road. Basically the NAS and my PC would be in Sync but I would not wish to have all of that data on my phone necessarily.

I am now going to read the articles in the links you sent me and the answers are most likely there. My main network switch is a Netgear GS116, a simple unmanaged switch and then I have another simple 8 port Asus switch in my office. I do not think that either of these will allow the link aggregation or teaming but I could be wrong. I do not have an issue upgrading these components however should I feel I need to down the road. Once I get there I can do my research on these components and then upgrade them if need be.

Also another question, my Internet provider supplies me with a router that has 4 Ethernet ports on the back of it. Once I get the NAS should I connect it directly to the back of the router or in behind it on my 16 port switch or does it really matter? I am thinking it would be better to connect it directly to the router as it will minimize any external connection bottlenecks. I have what I consider ridiculously fast internet connection where I am as it is a solid almost 60 Mbps download and 12 Mbps upload so this will be a good thing for external access, the only issue slowing anything down will be the cellular connection strength where I am when I access it.

Many thanks again all of you have been very helpful on this.

BC

 

[stevech]

Connection to router or switch, either OK. Performance is the same (assuming a decent switch).
UPS power backup - to NAS and Router or switch.

I don't open my NAS to the Internet as a rule. Too many vulnerabilities. If I need to share or remote access, I upload to my ADrive account, encrypted if data is private.

 

[Trexx]

QSync only runs on PC/MACs and would keep the folders in sync with the NAS. For mobile devices, you use QFile which gives you access to your files on the NAS but would only download/view the files you specify.

Sounds like both switches probably do not support 802.3AD.

Here is how I have my network connected for an idea of how to set it up: Cable modem > Router/FW > Cisco Switch > QNAP NAS (2) 1GbE connections bonded/teamed.

For your cable modem/router.. do you have the option of just having it pass traffic straight through?? I personally prefer using my own router/firmware so I KNOW that all is going on inside it and I have full control of it.

In terms of of performance... you are not going to get more than a single (1GbE) connection to any individual host even with 802.3AD, so if you have most of your devices hanging of your seperate switch (or a new one with 802.3AD support), you will get most benefit there. Then run a 1GbE cable back to your router/modem.

 

[Wafflebird]

QSync only runs on PC/MACs and would keep the folders in sync with the NAS. For mobile devices, you use QFile which gives you access to your files on the NAS but would only download/view the files you specify.

Sounds like both switches probably do not support 802.3AD.

Here is how I have my network connected for an idea of how to set it up: Cable modem > Router/FW > Cisco Switch > QNAP NAS (2) 1GbE connections bonded/teamed.

For your cable modem/router.. do you have the option of just having it pass traffic straight through?? I personally prefer using my own router/firmware so I KNOW that all is going on inside it and I have full control of it.

In terms of of performance... you are not going to get more than a single (1GbE) connection to any individual host even with 802.3AD, so if you have most of your devices hanging of your seperate switch (or a new one with 802.3AD support), you will get most benefit there. Then run a 1GbE cable back to your router/modem.

Good to go and understood on the Qfile, that is what I want to do. I will set up the PC to keep up to date with my "folders" folder and I will have all that I need should the need arise to "Grab" something off the NAS, and it will without question.

I actually use the router from Comcast, as it is wireless and a router all at the same time. I have as indicated before really fast speed here and it works so I have not really seen the need to go buy my own router, although I am sure there are better ways to do it. Looking into the router that they provided it seems like a decent model. It has 4 Ethernet ports in the back of it so I may just directly connect the 663 to the router. I think for my uses the gigabit connection will be fine, I mean I lived for a long time with USB 2.0 so I should have better than that for most transfers.

I am trying to study up on Plex, and how best to get the movies onto the NAS, as we have a quite large library. I see the standard size for a movie (standard DVD) is between 3-7 gigabytes when copied. I can see a good bit of space being taken up by there. I still need to get a Blu-Ray burner drive at some point as we have plenty of those as well.

Many thanks,

BC

 

[Trexx]

One thing to remember on the Comcast router, unless you are "opt-out" I believe the share your bandwidth and wifi with others. I have comcast as well, but use my own cable modem/router with them as a) I dont' want to pay the monthly rental fee, b) I can control the security on it. I get 50 Down/10 Up all day long, so that is not really a concern when doing using your own hardware. But if you are happy with what you have, that is what counts. Just an FYI - FAST speed in terms of hardware concerns would be 300Mb+ range these days.

For ingesting into plex, there are many different ways to do it, but alot of people use a combination of SlySoft AnyDVD HD to read the data off the DVD/BlueRay disc and then a program like HandBrake or CloneBD/DVD to convert it into a single file. Handbrake has many options for compressing the file format down. I would do some reading at http://forum.videohelp.com/ as they have tons of information on doing this and the various free/paid options available.

You don't need a Blue-Ray burner to do the transcoding/converting to a format Plex will like, just a Blu-Ray reader to read the data into your Win7 Box and let it the software churn away on it.

 

[Wafflebird]

One thing to remember on the Comcast router, unless you are "opt-out" I believe the share your bandwidth and wifi with others. I have comcast as well, but use my own cable modem/router with them as a) I dont' want to pay the monthly rental fee, b) I can control the security on it. I get 50 Down/10 Up all day long, so that is not really a concern when doing using your own hardware. But if you are happy with what you have, that is what counts. Just an FYI - FAST speed in terms of hardware concerns would be 300Mb+ range these days.

For ingesting into plex, there are many different ways to do it, but alot of people use a combination of SlySoft AnyDVD HD to read the data off the DVD/BlueRay disc and then a program like HandBrake or CloneBD/DVD to convert it into a single file. Handbrake has many options for compressing the file format down. I would do some reading at http://forum.videohelp.com/ as they have tons of information on doing this and the various free/paid options available.

You don't need a Blue-Ray burner to do the transcoding/converting to a format Plex will like, just a Blu-Ray reader to read the data into your Win7 Box and let it the software churn away on it.

OK after some further deliberation I am thinking of changing my plan a little and looking for some input. I have been very casually researching this and pricing things around a bit, my shopping cart @ Amazon has possibly been awarded a "Most changed without a purchase" award. I have spoken to the QNAP Pre-sales team several more times and one thing keeps being mentioned. that many applications will not work properly or at all (at least initially) on the AMD chip. PLEX has been mentioned several times as possibly not working correctly. Now before we get too far into that I am not making this my decision maker. This is what I am thinking, I am thinking that I will have this unit for quite some time, I would say at least five years. So lets say I have a maximum budget of $2K. I think the best bet would be to go with the QNAP TVS-671-i5-8G-US @ $1600 and to start I could just start with one 6 TB drive HGST Deskstar 128MB Cache drive. The drives are relatively cheap. I could just start with that and then buy another drive in a month or so and so on as space requirements dictate. This would net me the best machine for the $ and also allow me to have plenty of storage and I can migrate from a RAID 0 initially on the one drive to a raid one and then to a RAID 5 or 6 down the road. All the while being smart with my critical data by having external backups on two separate drives.

I hope this makes as much sense as it seems to make to me. This looks to be the best all around option for me as I sit and continue to consider my options. My job I have allows me to accrue points that I get to "Cash in" at Best-Buy. I have gotten a lot of things this way in the past, an Xbox One most recently. I think I have settled on the 6TB HGST drives. So I can then get the best machine with a large amount of storage space initially @ 6TB and the continue to populate the NAS with drives, the price on the drives will come down as time goes by as well.

Is this a fairly sound thought process or have I "Lost it"?

 

[L&LD]

A single drive can't do RAID.

But other than that, I agree with your logic, your drive choice and the QNAP NAS at a great price. This setup should last much more than the 5 years you expect.

 

[Wafflebird]

A single drive can't do RAID.

But other than that, I agree with your logic, your drive choice and the QNAP NAS at a great price. This setup should last much more than the 5 years you expect.

Ummmmmm........................ Duh................. on me that is, you are right, I guess I spoke before thinking, so yes I will have basically like a network attached drive initially then to raid 1 then to a RAID 5 or 6 later on. I know that when you migrate it takes some time. but I am OK with that. I just think getting the best "Machine" initially is the best option as that will be the piece that will eventually become outdated. If I get more than 5 years out of it that will be great. It is overkill in some ways but I think just get the most powerful device and buy the drives later is the best play for me. Getting excited and trying to learn as much as I can. It will be a while before I really get to grasps with what all it can do and will not use it to it's full capability in a home setting most likely but for a movie and music server as well as being able to remote in and get all my files on the fly will be awesome.

I do know that loading all of our movies onto it will take quite a while but no need to rush doing this, one or two a day for a while and I will be done. I do need to get a blu-ray reader for my PC. Then all of the music as well. Getting a Galaxy Note 4 this week as well so I will have that to work with all of the apps.

Rambling I know, many thanks for the thoughts and also agreeing with my "Madness".

 

[Trexx]

If you are trying to stay on budget, and don't mind rolling up the sleeves, you could go with a more stripped down 671, say 671-PT-4g-US, and upgrade it yourself to say an i7 and 16GB of memory. There are several people who have done this upgrade on the QNAP board. See this thread http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=102210&hilit=i7. The memory upgrade is the easier one of the two parts to accomplish.

This will free up some cash for extra hard drives. I would minimally start with 2 HDD's so that you get Raid, but you are going to be somewhat limited on IOPs due to the limited # of spindles, but makes a good starting point. Then you could go either go to RAID-6 (requires min. 4 drives) or Raid-10. Depending on if you are looking for space or speed. If you go Raid-6, after the 4 drives, you could then easily add another drive a month and keep expanding the array. If you go raid-10, if it is supported (and I am not sure honestly if it is or not) you would have to add 2 drives at a time to expand the raid-set.

 

[Wafflebird]

If you are trying to stay on budget, and don't mind rolling up the sleeves, you could go with a more stripped down 671, say 671-PT-4g-US, and upgrade it yourself to say an i7 and 16GB of memory. There are several people who have done this upgrade on the QNAP board. See this thread http://forum.qnap.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=102210&hilit=i7. The memory upgrade is the easier one of the two parts to accomplish.

This will free up some cash for extra hard drives. I would minimally start with 2 HDD's so that you get Raid, but you are going to be somewhat limited on IOPs due to the limited # of spindles, but makes a good starting point. Then you could go either go to RAID-6 (requires min. 4 drives) or Raid-10. Depending on if you are looking for space or speed. If you go Raid-6, after the 4 drives, you could then easily add another drive a month and keep expanding the array. If you go raid-10, if it is supported (and I am not sure honestly if it is or not) you would have to add 2 drives at a time to expand the raid-set.

I had read that same thread a few times already. I am technically savvy, but time deprived to be honest. I do like the idea of being able to upgrade the machine per the thread however. For me initially I should be fine with the machine as factory with 8 gig and the Quad Core I5. I cannot imagine that I will come close to "Taxing" the system but please understand I am very appreciative of your input. As it stands now I am either going to have to pay for overnight shipping or have the stuff shipped to my wife's work address as I am out of town in training the next week and if all goes according to plan I am planning on making the purchase this Friday. I may be able to swing two drives but if not I can get one initially, get used to the system and it's capabilities (I will be the only one accessing it initially), and build it up over the next few months.

I am currently at this moment burning a DVD via Handbrake (for the second time, the first one did not work, found on Youtube about downloading a file that I guess I needed) as I have really never done much more than make photo DVD's and copied music, so this is a learning process. I am thinking of copying a bunch over the next week to my PC so when I get the NAS up I can start to test the transfer process and also see how to utilize all (edit not all at all, let's say a few) of the systems capabilities, and I am really interested to see how the access via remote connection will work.

Many thanks again.

 

[Wafflebird]

One more follow up note, in speaking with QNAP yesterday (I would like to say that they have been most helpful through this entire process, I have never felt like they were trying to get me off the phone) in another line of questioning I was mentioning the HGST drives and the gentlemen explained to me that "You will never see the benefit of those drives in the NAS" and indicated that he thought I would be over-spending. Now here I have had the HGST drives reflected positively. I guess the other option would be the WD Red 6TB drives. Can I please get some feedback on this from you here? There is really not that much difference in the price. The QNAP pre-sales agent mentioned that the only real place the 7200 RPM makes is on a high end gaming rig and for a NAS it was just not going to net me anything. From a strictly mechanical angle is there anything to it with the HDD spinning @ 7200 vs the 5400 RPM (or intellipower) of the WD Red and longevity/failure rates? The HGST is currently right at around $300 and the WD Red is at $269 so it is like $40 less for the Red. That $40 could help on the shipping if you think I would not benefit from the HGST.

As always many thanks,

 

[L&LD]

I do recommend the 3TB and 4TB versions of the WD RED NAS drives, but do not have any experience with them at the 6TB capacity.

Between the two I know, the 3TB version is the faster drive and this even with the 4TB capacity in a much more powerful NAS (and yes, I tested the 4TB RED's in the lower end NAS and the 3TB RED's in the higher end NAS and both times, the 3TB drives were obviously faster by ~20-60MB/s which equaled hours saved when transferring a NAS full of data back and forth).

If I had a chance to purchase the HGST drives which would be my first choice, I would even at $40 more expensive today. The difference in a NAS setting may be small for sequential transfers of large files (about 25% faster), but when transferring many smaller files (or using the VM abilities of the NAS), the faster spinning drive will be worth the $40 price difference many times over (and be about 40% faster).

Your call, but I would be buying as many 6TB HGST drives as I can (when they are on sale).

http://www.simply.reviews/hgst-5tb-6tb-nas-drives-review/

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/best-hard-drive/


These are my only option so far when I need to upgrade my NAS storage capacity in the not too far future.

 

[Trexx]

Through 5/29, Newegg has the 6TB Hitachi drives @ $260 w/coupon code ESCASNT46.

Here is a good article that shows you the perf benefits of HGST compared to other drives including WD Red 6TB.
http://www.storagereview.com/hgst_deskstar_nas_6tb_hdd_review

I am on my 2nd NAS w/HGST drives with no failures (knock on wood) and have been very happy with them.

I would recommend HGST based on personal experience.

 

[Wafflebird]

Oh man....................... oven just died, looks like I am going to have to "Downgrade" a little but still thinking that a TS-453 Pro 8 gig machine will still be a good option. The broiler went out, the element itself is still good as I ohm tested it, so it is the controller. It is a builders oven about 8 years old so it is what it is. We are getting one of the Samsung CHef Collection Flex-Duo dual convection ovens (Don't worry my wife is an unbelievably awesome cook so I will be benefiting from it). Just trying to keep you abreast of the "Situation" and also looking for a little assurance I'm still good to go so to speak. I know it is a good machine, it was between this and the DS415+ and I just simply like the Qnap OS better myself and the 8 gig machine is the better deal I think. Looking for some feedback and hoping I am not boring you guys to death with this.

Many thanks,

BC

 

[Trexx]

Sorry to hear about the broke oven. I hate when real world problems interfere with electronic goody purchases.

I have been very happy with my TS-453 Pro. Just playing with CentOS VM this morning on it.