AC3100 or AX58U as Router for Aimesh?

[Cranium]

This is my first post to SNB. I've already learned a lot just from reading various threads.

I currently have an AC 3100 running as my main router. As of this point I do not have any other nodes. I have no major problems with it, other than some dead spots, and I just recently flashed it with the latest version of Merlin. I have 300mbps coming in.

I ordered an AX58U router from Best Buy and I am waiting for it to arrive sometime this week.

My intention is to create an AI mesh. I was thinking of leaving the AC 3100 as the router and putting the AX58U as the node.

My internet comes in through the attic so the AC 3100 is up there. I am intending to put the AX58U two floors down which would be the first floor. That way I can get better coverage into the basement as well as out on my porch. I am not able to run any Ethernet. Also, my house is quite old and the wiring is old as well otherwise I might try powerline.

My question is...What is the opinion of using the AC 3100 as the main router instead of the newer AX 58U? Does anyone feel that it would be better to switch those two? I was thinking since the AC 3100 is a 4x4 and the AC58U is a 2x2, it would better to leave the AC 3100 as the router. Also my intention is to put the latest version of Merlin on the AX 58U. Does that sound like a good idea? Aside for a cell phone or two I don't believe I have any Wi-Fi 6 devices.

I thank you all for your advice.

 

[L&LD]

The RT-AX58U is a 2x2:2 Receive and a 4x4:4 Send router on the 5GHz band (2x2:2 for 2.4GHz).

I would put RMerlin firmware, absolutely.

I would also have it be the main router too.

Edit: clarified what I originally meant. Ty @Kal-EL

 

[Cranium]

Thanks for the reply. I didn't realize that the send and receive could be different. Also I will definitely make the AC 58U the main router and my existing AC 3100 the node.

When you set up the AI mesh does the node have the same SSID as the router? Or can you change that? Right now I have a separate SSID for the 2.4 and the 5.0 using the AC 3100.

I know that either the 2.4 or 5.0 has to be the backhaul. Do I have to pick that or does it go back and forth automatically?

Thanks!

 

[L&LD]

Flash the firmware you want to be installed, first. On the one, you will use as a router, do a full M&M Config (please see link in my signature below). Do not use a saved config file. Do not 'blindly' enter customizations you previously had 'just because' (they may have changed or be obsolete on the new firmware/router).

Before inserting any USB drive you used previously with amtm (or any custom scripts for that matter), back up the content for safekeeping, but format the USB drive in a PC before you insert it into the router. Ignoring the amtm install steps, you may want to use the amtm Step-by-Step guide too from the same link below.

On the one you will use as an AiMesh node, just do a full reset and then don't touch it at all.

From the main router, point to the router you wish to use as an AiMesh node and it will automatically do what it needs to to get the AiMesh operational.

If you start out with an SSID for each radio, you will have that on the node too.

Note that Guest networks are not available on the nodes currently (hopefully, they will be soon).

HTH.

 

[raven-au]

When you set up the AI mesh does the node have the same SSID as the router? Or can you change that? Right now I have a separate SSID for the 2.4 and the 5.0 using the AC 3100.

I know that either the 2.4 or 5.0 has to be the backhaul. Do I have to pick that or does it go back and forth automatically?

Node configuration is essentially copied from the master router node.

I don't use separate SSIDs so I'm not sure about the backhaul in that case but with smart connect I do see 2.4GHz connections to the master from nodes as well as 5GHz connections.

If you have dual band nodes then there can't be a dedicated backhaul so the 5GHz (and the 2.4GHz for that matter) will serve as both front haul and backhaul.

Ian

 

[Deleted member 22229]

The RT-AX58U is a 2x2:2 Receive and a 4x4:4 Send router.

Correction... The AX58U is a 2x2 on 2.4 GHz. On the 5 GHz band its a 2x4. 2 TX and 4 RX.

 

[Cranium]

Correction... The AX58U is a 2x2 on 2.4 GHz. On the 5 GHz band its a 2x4. 2 TX and 4 RX.

As I am pretty much a novice about networking, can you explain what the difference is between the send and receive radio numbers? Also, will this have any impact on the fact that I will be using the AC 3100 as the node since that has 4x4?

 

[Cranium]

The RT-AX58U is a 2x2:2 Receive and a 4x4:4 Send router on the 5GHz band (2x2:2 for 2.4GHz).

I would put RMerlin firmware, absolutely.

I would also have it be the main router too.

Edit: clarified what I originally meant. Ty @Kal-EL

Just so I understand what "more powerful "means, are you suggesting I use the AX88U because it has a better CPU and cores or because it is Wi-Fi 6 compared to Wi-Fi 5?

 

[L&LD]

The AX routers offer higher throughput, this makes them more suited as the main router.

WiFi 6 is better than WiFi 5.

 

[jsz]

Wish the 58u was really sold as a 4x4 T/R 5G design without having to wait for the AX82u at a potentially higher cost (220 usd?). Throughput on AC would/should be much better via 2x2 clients.

Would be no reason to buy AX88U unless you needed the better VPN/filetransfer support of the 64bit ARM CPU.

 

[Deleted member 22229]

As I am pretty much a novice about networking, can you explain what the difference is between the send and receive radio numbers? Also, will this have any impact on the fact that I will be using the AC 3100 as the node since that has 4x4?

On 5GHz the AX58U has two antenna's that Transmit and all 4 antenna's Receive. On 2.4 GHz two Transmit and two Receive.

 

[Deleted member 22229]

Wish the 58u was really sold as a 4x4 T/R 5G design without having to wait for the AX82u at a potentially higher cost (220 usd?). Throughput on AC would/should be much better via 2x2 clients.

Would be no reason to buy AX88U unless you needed the better VPN/filetransfer support of the 64bit ARM CPU.

Most clients are only 2x2 anyway so at least for now the AX58U should do fine. Works just as good as my AC3100 and Netgear R7800 no issues. And the price is much more economical for a taste of AX until the 6 GHz wifi 6e starts to roll out witch none of the current AX routers at any price will be able to do.

 

[jsz]

Most clients are only 2x2 anyway so at least for now the AX58U should do fine. Works just as good as my AC3100 and Netgear R7800 no issues. And the price is much more economical for a taste of AX until the 6 GHz wifi 6e starts to roll out witch none of the current AX routers at any price will be able to do.

That isn't the point. 4x4 designs (specifically transfer here) do offer better range.

When I owned the 58u, it got destroyed by a GT-2900 (AC86u rebrand) at 30feet.. Both currently $180 USD.

Edit: That was with the same 2x2 AX200/iphone X clients to clarify. Tested both 80mhz and 160mhz channels as well. The 58u offered better/similar performance if you were within 15 feet of the router, but the range was significantly limited if you wanted to go further.

86u does also have issues when you push it over 30 feet, but in my situation.. it seems like thats all I needed in terms of the furthest points at my place.

Edit 2: 160mhz on the GT-AC2900 offered similar performance of the 58u in terms of range for AC clients, but it disabled the MIMO down to 2x2.. which makes sense as thats my overall issue with the 58u.

AX for the AX200 160mhz client at range is an obvious victor to the 58u (compared to GT-AC2900 @ 160mhz). The GT-2900 @ 4x4 80mhz @ range offers comparable speeds via AC though.

AX via 4x4 solves this for AC clients and also provides better AX range.. AX88U for example doesn't run into the AC speed limitation while providing a better AX signal in general. but it also cost $350 USD

I retuned both for an XR450 anyway. Which is ironically based on the R7800.. and is 100% offering better (consistent real world) wireless performance at range. Modulation is within 100-200mbps (theoretical transfer speed) of an AX design at 30 feet. The only thing I hate about the thing is the significantly outdated GUI/features/lack of customization/bugs.

 

[Deleted member 22229]

Don't notice your issues. My AX58U sends the same signal and throughput at distance as my R7800 and AC3100 i see no difference. Look im by know means sticking up for or promoting the AX58 or any other router just showing my real world experience. As always YMMV. For a 150.00 bran new router it's hard to go wrong. Wanted to mention i also live in a small APT only about 950 sq feet so i think that helps.

 

[jsz]

What internet tier or speed do you have from ISP? Thats a big one

I pay for 400 and get 470-480. The XR450 offers the best long range performance out of 5-6 routers I've tried recently.

The XR450 will do 450mbps on non congested channels via 80mhz (consistent after hours). 160mhz mode lets me have my modem lan speed 30+ feet away. No other router in this price range lets me do this and I hate it because I bought this one on a whim not expecting the level of performance it can push out.

 

[Deleted member 22229]

AT&T Gigibit Fiber. I get just over 500 mbps up and down via 5 GHz wireless. But it can be lower during times of interference but not by much. This is actually the same if not better then my 7800 on the same channel @ 80 mhz.

 

[jsz]

Yeah not sure.. all I know is that multiple independent reviews have similar results to me at 30+ feet range for AC clients on the 58u.. Maybe modem throughput is a factor here.. I know going from a DOCSIS 3.0 to 3.1 cable modem helped me gain a bit of maximum throughput (+50-60 mbps) over wireless.

It also might have to do with my clients themselves but its a pretty common AX200 card and Iphone X (AC) that I mainly tested with.

On a side note.. The 58u as a product actually makes me mad because its legitimately capable of "more" aside from general design tolerances as it uses the same 5G AX chip as the actual 4x4 models, but I figure ASUS would generally lose sales and its prob just a place holder until a cheaper 2x2 160mhz design can fill the void.. in which case AX82U continues off the production of the 58U/AX3000 design.. which makes sense.

 

[Cranium]

Most clients are only 2x2 anyway so at least for now the AX58U should do fine. Works just as good as my AC3100 and Netgear R7800 no issues. And the price is much more economical for a taste of AX until the 6 GHz wifi 6e starts to roll out witch none of the current AX routers at any price will be able to do.

That's what I thought when I bought the AX58U. I thought it would give me the ability to have Wi-Fi six as devices start to use that. And in the meantime, I'll set up my AC 3100 as the AI mesh node.

 

[Cranium]

Good news! I got up early this morning to set up the AI mesh network. After factory resetting the AC3100, I set up the AX58u according to the M&M instructions.

The network has been running about 2 hours or so and so far everything is really solid. The handoff from the router to the node is seamless. And the most important thing is that while I'm sitting out here on my patio smoking my cigar I am getting almost half of my 300Mbs. I used to not be able to get 5Ghz at all sitting out here. I used to connect it 2.4 and I would barely get 1Mbs.

So the AX-58U router is in my attic and the AC3100 is two floors down in my dining room. Both are running the most recent Merlin firmware.

I'd like to thank everyone that advised me as to what to do. We'll see how this setup works for a while but so far it's been perfect and I had zero issues since everything has been put into place.

 

[Cranium]

Ok. I knew I would be back. Although my new AI mesh network is running great. I realized that because I didn't set the IP of the new AX58U router, it no longer has the address of 192.168.1.1. I think what happened is it was just given the next IP number in the range. Is there a way I can change this? I would like to have that router be 192.168.1.1 and maybe have the AC3100 node be 192.168.1.2. Although that doesn't really matter as much. I just want to be able to have the much easier to remember IP when I try and log in to the router.