I'm having a strange issue with AC66U in Media Bridge mode. It will work fine for a few hours, then suddenly I will no longer be able to access its web ui, it won't respond to ping requests, or ssh. However, most of the wired devices connected to it are still accessible over the network (except for a printer, which is not accessible when this issue occurs). Rebooting the router solves the problem temporarily. I've tried three different versions of Asuswrt-Merlin firmware and the issue persists. How can I go about diagnosing the issue?
AC66U Media Bridge stability issue
- Thread starter scope021
- Start date
This isn't something fixed by Asuswrt-Merlin?
I bought two AC66Us to extend my network, and they worked fine for a while.. but I noticed DHCP stops working on devices downstream of the bridge, and for some reason ipv6 isn't working right on devices downstream of the bridge.. in both cases, I'd guess it isn't passing some broadcast traffic right?
Based on your statement, I just tried switching my 'client' bridge to repeater mode, and it doesn't fix the ipv6 issue. It'll take time to see if it fixes the dhcp issue. It does seem to cut my bandwidth by 30%, even with nothing else on the 5ghz network. :/
I tried repeater for a while but had much worse stability issues. Sure, I was able to consistently access the router's web ui, but I couldn't even copy a file over the network consistently. So I switched firmware to the latest stock build (3.0.0.4.376_3754) and went back to media bridge mode. Guess what? It's been going strong all week with great performance (1053Mbps link speed at the moment) and no reliability issues whatsoever. Perhaps ASUS finally fixed media bridge mode?!
No. I run my 2nd RT-AC66U with stock FW. Merlin's build is slower in bridge and repeater mode [last time I tested].
Based on my testing, it's not just broadcast traffic. The router starts ignoring all traffic from discrete bridged MAC addresses (i.e. some clients will work, others will not, with no pattern to which client gets ignored over time). I have reproduced this behavior with several other bridges from different vendors so I'm pretty confident that the problem is with the router.
I don't use IPv6, so I can't speak to that. Repeater mode is the only way I have been able to keep the network stable. There is a bandwidth hit (no way around it, this is an artifact of operating in repeater mode), but even in repeater mode it's fast enough to stream large video files so I live with the loss to get stability.
When you use repeater all of the bridge side traffic is consolidated behind the repeater's MAC so you also loss any MAC based functionality at the router (parental controls, DNS flipping, static DHCP, etc.).
Interesting. I haven't tested it in a while. Will give it a go.
That's the firmware version I've been having issues on.
Great, thanks for the info. That makes sense. I did have one client (my htpc) that couldn't communicate at all after coming out of sleep, but I had figured it timed out looking for a dhcp renewal.
That's really dissappointing, as the RT-AC66U has great reviews (multiple sites calling it one of the best if not the best AC1900 routers), and it's one of the few with native AP/Media bridge modes without requiring modified firmware.
You must have missed my review
.Despite this issue, I still really like the HW (although TBF Merlin's customization plays a large roll in that) - it's what I choose to use. Also, a lot of other vendors/devices have issues with bridging as well. Unfortunately it just isn't tested well enough.
You must have missed my review
Despite this issue, I still really like the HW (although TBF Merlin's customization plays a large roll in that) - it's what I choose to use. Also, a lot of other vendors/devices have issues with bridging as well. Unfortunately it just isn't tested well enough.
Apparently I had not...
I just read through the troubleshooting thread and it isn't good news. I don't want to pay more for a pair of 68Us, but if I'm going to, I should do it while I'm within the return window for these 66Us. Do the 68s really not have the issue?
cofetym
Senior Member
Pick up a cheap re-manufactured Linksys EA4500 or EA6500.
Leave the original firmware on it. Update if needed!
http://store.linksys.com/Linksys-Certified-Refurbished_stcVVcatId543906VVviewcat.htm
Leave the original firmware on it. Update if needed!
http://store.linksys.com/Linksys-Certified-Refurbished_stcVVcatId543906VVviewcat.htm
Pick up a cheap re-manufactured Linksys EA4500 or EA6500.
Leave the original firmware on it. Update if needed!
http://store.linksys.com/Linksys-Certified-Refurbished_stcVVcatId543906VVviewcat.htm
Do they support being client bridges? I looked at those, but between the fact that I couldn't tell if they'd support that on stock firmware, and the lack of external antennas, I looked elsewhere.
cofetym
Senior Member
Bridge Mode on EA6500 and EA4500.
Tomato firmware by Shibby might be worth a try on RT-AC66U and RT-N66U. Might be stable enough for you to work with.
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Maybe I'm just missing something about what the trouble is with Repeater mode, but I'm using two AC66U's and have none of the issues that others here describe. I don't have issues with devices dropping off the repeater, the GUI remains always accessible, DHCP is rock-solid, and I do not have spontaneous reboots. The repeater will route through to IPv6 addresses (via the router), but you won't see that if you look for IPv6 connectivity on devices connected to the repeater wirelessly. I do see IPv6 on devices that are connected to the repeater's LAN ports. Not sure why there's a difference, but it makes no functional difference, since all devices are fine with routed traffic.
From my perspective, if you want only a true media bridge, you should be using Repeater Mode instead. Repeater does exactly the same thing as media bridge and is completely stable for devices connected to the Repeater's LAN ports (at least for me), and it does not suffer any negative hit to throughput or speed (i.e., no "cutting speed in half") that can occur with wireless clients that are connected to a wireless extender. As far as I can ascertain, the LAN ports in repeater mode on the repeater function exactly the same as they would in media bridge mode. And using two AC66U's to achieve this bridging/repeater solution is also pretty cost effective now that the price of the AC66 has dropped to somewhere around $119 at many retail locations.
I've been using repeater mode with Merlin's FW since at least 374.38_2, and I'm now using the 378.50_beta, and I've used every iteration of Merlin's firmware in between along the way, as well as all of John's fork versions of the 374. Merlin FW as well, and every one of them has provided the same rock-solid performance in repeater mode.
I use one AC66U as a router in an upstairs study, and a second one downstairs as the repeater. They are separated by about a 25 foot diagonal distance (through 3 walls and one floor/ceiling), and I get terrific throughput for file transfers and internet streaming on the repeater, usually with 456mbps connection link layer or better (a lot depends on the positioning of the antennas on both devices). I have a 300/20 TWC internet package, so the speeds I'm getting from devices connected via the LAN ports (and through an 8-port GigE switch that hangs off one of the repeater's LAN ports) are almost as good as being connected via Cat5e from the router directly, usually around 300Mbps download routinely. The repeater is set to pick up only the router's 5ghz broadcasts on channel 161 set to 80mhz width, so I'm getting a great signal and throughput.
I can stream Blu-ray rips and 1080HD DVD's from three different NAS's I have located upstairs that are connected to the router via GigE LAN ports, and they play perfectly through the downstairs repeater, to which I've connected a Win7 HTPC via one of the repeater's LAN ports. The video and audio output from HTPC are fed into a Denon AVR3801-CL receiver with great Dolby DTS surround, and the picture displayed via HDMI on a Toshiba 60" HDTV. This set up provides flawless streaming and playback of any and all media I've thrown at it. No signals dropped, no speed or throughput loss. No DHCP issues. No reboots. No stuttering, jaggies, etc. Just excellent performance. If I'm streaming from online sources such as Netflix, SHO, HBO, Hulu, NBA League Pass, etc. through the HTPC, I also get flawless picture and sound with absolutely no dropouts, no stuttering, etc.
The added benefit of using repeater mode vs. media bridge is that it also allows me to use the repeater's wireless radios (both 2.5 and 5ghz) to extend the wireless range of the router. Admittedly, I haven't used media bridge mode. To me it just seems superfluous since repeater mode does the same thing for client devices connected via a LAN port to the repeater.
Again, not to belabor the point, but repeater mode works so well and is so stable that even though I've been tempted to buy some of the newer, beefier Asus offerings (e.g., 68P, 87U, and now the AC3200), I just can't seem to justify messing with a good thing or spending the additional money or messing with what works.
I don't know when Babgvant's review of the two AC66U's he tested was written, but from the "troubleshooting" link embedded in that review, which links to this thread here at SNB, all of the posts are dated in mid-2013, and in the year and a half since that time, Asus and Merlin have both pretty much resolved any issues that might have previously existed with Repeater Mode. I can't say whether that's the case with media bridge though, and as someone noted above I've also read that Asus pretty much dropped Media Bridge in favor of Repeater mode. But I have to ask again, why use media bridge when you can get the same functionality, and more, from repeater mode?
And lastly, contrary to Babgvant's experience described in his last post, my experience has been that Merlin's FW is not any slower in repeater mode than is the Asus FW; rather they are both just as fast. It's my understanding that Asus' code for repeater mode is the same as that developed and improved upon by Merlin, so for repeater mode there should be zero differences whether you're using Merlin or the official FW.
From my perspective, if you want only a true media bridge, you should be using Repeater Mode instead. Repeater does exactly the same thing as media bridge and is completely stable for devices connected to the Repeater's LAN ports (at least for me), and it does not suffer any negative hit to throughput or speed (i.e., no "cutting speed in half") that can occur with wireless clients that are connected to a wireless extender. As far as I can ascertain, the LAN ports in repeater mode on the repeater function exactly the same as they would in media bridge mode. And using two AC66U's to achieve this bridging/repeater solution is also pretty cost effective now that the price of the AC66 has dropped to somewhere around $119 at many retail locations.
I've been using repeater mode with Merlin's FW since at least 374.38_2, and I'm now using the 378.50_beta, and I've used every iteration of Merlin's firmware in between along the way, as well as all of John's fork versions of the 374. Merlin FW as well, and every one of them has provided the same rock-solid performance in repeater mode.
I use one AC66U as a router in an upstairs study, and a second one downstairs as the repeater. They are separated by about a 25 foot diagonal distance (through 3 walls and one floor/ceiling), and I get terrific throughput for file transfers and internet streaming on the repeater, usually with 456mbps connection link layer or better (a lot depends on the positioning of the antennas on both devices). I have a 300/20 TWC internet package, so the speeds I'm getting from devices connected via the LAN ports (and through an 8-port GigE switch that hangs off one of the repeater's LAN ports) are almost as good as being connected via Cat5e from the router directly, usually around 300Mbps download routinely. The repeater is set to pick up only the router's 5ghz broadcasts on channel 161 set to 80mhz width, so I'm getting a great signal and throughput.
I can stream Blu-ray rips and 1080HD DVD's from three different NAS's I have located upstairs that are connected to the router via GigE LAN ports, and they play perfectly through the downstairs repeater, to which I've connected a Win7 HTPC via one of the repeater's LAN ports. The video and audio output from HTPC are fed into a Denon AVR3801-CL receiver with great Dolby DTS surround, and the picture displayed via HDMI on a Toshiba 60" HDTV. This set up provides flawless streaming and playback of any and all media I've thrown at it. No signals dropped, no speed or throughput loss. No DHCP issues. No reboots. No stuttering, jaggies, etc. Just excellent performance. If I'm streaming from online sources such as Netflix, SHO, HBO, Hulu, NBA League Pass, etc. through the HTPC, I also get flawless picture and sound with absolutely no dropouts, no stuttering, etc.
The added benefit of using repeater mode vs. media bridge is that it also allows me to use the repeater's wireless radios (both 2.5 and 5ghz) to extend the wireless range of the router. Admittedly, I haven't used media bridge mode. To me it just seems superfluous since repeater mode does the same thing for client devices connected via a LAN port to the repeater.
Again, not to belabor the point, but repeater mode works so well and is so stable that even though I've been tempted to buy some of the newer, beefier Asus offerings (e.g., 68P, 87U, and now the AC3200), I just can't seem to justify messing with a good thing or spending the additional money or messing with what works.
I don't know when Babgvant's review of the two AC66U's he tested was written, but from the "troubleshooting" link embedded in that review, which links to this thread here at SNB, all of the posts are dated in mid-2013, and in the year and a half since that time, Asus and Merlin have both pretty much resolved any issues that might have previously existed with Repeater Mode. I can't say whether that's the case with media bridge though, and as someone noted above I've also read that Asus pretty much dropped Media Bridge in favor of Repeater mode. But I have to ask again, why use media bridge when you can get the same functionality, and more, from repeater mode?
And lastly, contrary to Babgvant's experience described in his last post, my experience has been that Merlin's FW is not any slower in repeater mode than is the Asus FW; rather they are both just as fast. It's my understanding that Asus' code for repeater mode is the same as that developed and improved upon by Merlin, so for repeater mode there should be zero differences whether you're using Merlin or the official FW.
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Are you using IPv6 for internet traffic? If not, you won't likely see the issue I've had - link-local IPv6 works fine, and my devices hanging off the media bridge get their public ipv6 addresses, they just can't actually talk to the internet with them.
And, media bridge and repeater are NOT the same thing.
#1: Media bridge bridges traffic, and is not supposed to do any re-writing or ethernet NATing, so all the devices hanging off the media bridge are seen as independent MAC addresses on the network. Repeater mode seems to do ethernet (layer 2) NAT, and all devices hanging off of it are seen with the repeater's MAC on the network.
#2: Repeater mode by definition reduces the throughput. Perhaps not 'by half' if you have no active clients associated to the repeater wirelessly, but even without any clients, the fact that the repeater's radio has to rebroadcast all broadcast packets it receives reduces its throughput. I measured it at about a 30% hit in performance compared to media bridge mode in my network, where I have 0 clients on the network I'm 'repeating', only the AP and the client bridge are using 5 Ghz in my network, on a different SSID than my 2.4Ghz network.
So, why would anyone want to use media bridge instead of repeater? Better performance, and it acts like a bridge (Which was my primary goal. If I wanted to set up a separate network and route between them, I could have done that too, but I don't want to do that. The repeater is halfway between the two. One IP network, but a NATed ethernet network. I'm not actually sure how the repeater keeps track of which frame is going to which client when the frames are all sent to its MAC, or does it just broadcast ALL frames on the wired interfaces, really screwing up the switch performance too?)
*Note: I'm calling it NATing because it does seem to be doing ethernet address translation, which is more like "Link Address Translation" than "Network Address Translation" - but the basic idea is the same. It's not acting like a transparent extension of my ethernet network, which is what I bought it for.
Repeater is stable, Media Bridge is not. Always has been that way.
As noted before they are quite different. There is a measurable bandwidth hit in actual throughput (i.e. make sure you use a tool that actually runs traffic across and measures it over time), this is a measurable and indisputable fact.
The MAC addresses of clients attached to the repeater get aggregated behind the repeater's MAC, so you can't use any functionality that requires it (e.g. parental controls, custom DNS assignment, etc.).
You only need ~100Mbps of guaranteed peak bandwidth to stream a BD. The repeater mode does that handily at the range you mention.
I also use repeater mode because it is good enough and provides better coverage, but that doesn't mean there isn't a cost.
Wait, so all of this is based on conjecture? Repeater mode is great, but if you haven't actually tested the alternative how can you make any claims about it vs. that alternative?
October 9, 2013 (top of the review, on the left).
I'm curious if you've actually tested this with a tool that tracks real throughput over time? The last time I tested it (which TBF was several revs ago), the results were the same as each other time I tested it - Merlin was slower. I have no explanation for why this is, but frankly the why doesn't matter when the proof is there...
The methodology used, like all the real bandwidth testing that I do, is to copy a very large file across the "bridged" network and programmatically poll the actual throughput every 500ms and average it over a fixed period of time to produce a number.
jerry6
Very Senior Member
oops been using my AC 66 in media bridge mode for 3 months , using merlin FW , now connecting at 1170 Mbps , not bad from 30 feet 3 walls . Was a pain to set up , but once done it's been set and forget .
On the 3200 there is no repeter mode , just router , AP and Media bridge as options
On the 3200 there is no repeter mode , just router , AP and Media bridge as options
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Yes I am.
I didn't say they were, at least not in the sense that you and Babgvant seem to imply. WDS mode is different than the version of "Repeater" mode that is implemented in Asus' FW, and Repeater mode is also different from Bridge Mode in that in Repeater you also have the benefit that you can still connect client devices to the Repeater's two radios (2.4 and 5ghz) whereas in Bridge, you lose any other functionality of the Repeater's radios other than for connecting one of the two bands to the Router. The Asus Repeater mode from the LAN port perspective gives one the same connection speed and throughput as if one was running in media bridge and there's no drop off in throughput on clients that are connected via LAN to the Repeater. I've tested this and experimented with it using different versions of both Asus and Merlin FW over the past 9 months, and I have seen absolutely no differences.
And to answer Babgvant's statements re: differences in speed between Merlin and Asus FW's, I've seen none whatsoever in Repeater mode. And I'm not talking about WDS, but "Repeater" mode. Did Asus firmware even have Repeater Mode implemented in October of 2013 when your review was written and your tests run? I do not believe they had that mode implemented in their FW prior to .276.
In my experience Asus' version of Repeater (not WDS) is much more similar to Bridge mode speaking only about LAN port-connected devices, than it's not. And with respect to wireless clients connected to the Repeater, my experience is that performance, speed and throughput aren't halved either, and indeed there's virtually no dropoff whatsoever on the band that is "free". By free, what I mean is that in Repeater mode, you set one channel, either 5ghz or 2.4ghz as the channel that communicates with the Router; the other band is free and communicates only with client devices connected to the Repeater.
You are correct that MAC addresses of devices (both wired and wireless) hanging off the Repeater are aggregated and use the MAC address of the Repeater. This poses no issues for me in my use. I can still see each device's individual IP address, I can use a printer connected to the repeater from a computer connecting to the LAN through the router, and vice-versa, all devices on my LAN (both on the Repeater and the Router) can see each other and share files across the LAN, and on my three NAS devices, so what am I missing? I don't do remote VPN from outside my home to my LAN (I do VPN to my office though from home, but that's a whole different deal). And yes, each device does receive its own IPv6 address, and I'm using IPv6 without any issues at all. You say that I can't use Parental Controls for devices connected to the Repeater? Um, that's not what my Router is telling me when I set up those controls. (I did that as a test to see if it could be done; it can. But I don't use Parental Controls at all anyway because my kids are grown and out of the house, so it's a non-issue for me).
You compared the radio retransmission of wireless in media bridge with the repeater's retransmission using it's dual band radios? Really? That's interesting because in media bridge both radios of the bridge can only be used to receives and transmit to a single device, the router. Thus in Bridge Mode, the radios cannot rebroadcast to any other client devices at all. This is different in Repeater mode, where only one of the two radios on both the Repeater and the Router communicate with each other (you will note that the Repeater is set to communicate with the Router only one channel, either 2.4ghz or 5ghz, but not both), thus leaving the other radio free to do the same duty as if it were functioning as a wireless channel on the router. This band (the one not designated to communicate with the router) does not suffer this 30% or 50% throughput hit that most people describe, because it's not being used to do double duty. In my case, for example, my Repeater is set to use the 5ghz radio to communicate with my Router. That band can still also be used on the Repeater to connect with clients on the 5ghz channel that is also being rebroadcast on the Repeater. That channel suffers a small throughput hit, almost imperceptible. The 2.4ghz band on the Repeater suffers no appreciable hit either (other than that caused by the distance of the Repeater from the Router).
I don't know the answer to your other questions. All I know is that if I wanted to spend another $160, perhaps I'd set up my second RT-AC66U in my media room in "Bridge Mode" and then plug in a third RT-AC66U which I'd use to implement the wireless portion of the signal, i.e., as an extender. But that's pretty pointless in my view and a waste of money. I don't know whether my Repeater is using what you're calling Ethernet NAT for the devices hung off LAN ports or wirelessly to the Repeater or not, but the point is, it just plain works, and using Repeater I get, in my view, the best of both worlds: LAN devices connected to the Repeater that are getting virtually the same throughput I'd be getting if I ran the Repeater in "Bridge Mode" (and yes, I've compared and tested this) while at the same time, having the added benefit of the Repeater's wireless radios that function as extenders, and with only one of the repeater's wireless channels taking a modest throughput hit because it is also set to be the primary channel communicating with the router while the other one isn't.
But whatever works for you is ok with me. And I hope you don't mind that I'm using my two RT-AC66's in the manner I'm using them, which, from my perspective gives me the best of both, or which in your estimation gives me only a compromise between the two.....whatever. I'm happy. And I hope you are as well with your setup.
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You said:
I must have misunderstood what you meant when you said they behave exactly the same.
Yes, these are different modes. They all behave differently with pro/con to each mode. TBC, no one is pissing on Repeater mode, just pointing out 1) Media Bridge mode doesn't work properly 2) There are negatives and positives to Repeater mode. It's unfortunate that we don't have a real choice of the two since only one is stable.
That's not possible. It just doesn't work that way. This isn't just one of those theoretical things either, it really doesn't work like that. You can verify it by testing it (I have, many times).
I haven't seen that in my experience using a scientific approach, but if you are happy with your setup and conclusions that's totally fine with me.
From the review:
TLDR: When I first acquired the device Media Bridge mode was a 5GHz bridge + 2.4GHz AP (similar to NETGEAR's FastLane tech), they added Repeater mode during the review period. Media Bridge has never been stable.
The 50% loss is theoretical, you don't actually get theoretical peak (1300Gbps) either. There is a measurable, significant loss in actual, real bandwidth. In most conditions Repeater is still very fast (well over 100Mbps), so unless you actually measure it in a controlled way it's easy to miss.
That's great. There are many cases where not exposing the client MAC to the router will work just fine, but it is a difference and something that everyone should be aware of when making an informed decision about which mode to choose...
Yes, only the band used for backhaul takes the bandwidth hit (i.e. the one that is "repeated"). Generally you use the fastest band for that (5GHz), and it has a direct impact on how fast the wireless 'bridge' is both to LAN and wireless clients attached to the repeater.
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