Access Point Dumb Question

[Ebartone]

Please let me ask a total nube question, but first, I think this is a GREAT forum, I cannot tell you how much I learn every day from you guys! My question is this; I love my 68u, and I keep up with the Merlin builds - I really have very little issues, so really don't post much if ever. I do have a fairly large home though, and my family is used to switching to 2.4G when they are stretching the wireless limits, and back to 5G for better throughput when they are closer to the unit. I would like to consider adding an access point, mostly for fun, but am a bit confused by some of the fundamentals. I would set it up as an AP (not repeater, ie by cat6), but my question is, is there a way to configure the AP so that it is invisible to my clients (family), that is to say, the devices "automatically" choose to connect to the router if the best signal, or AP if that is stronger? What if they walk around the house? I hate to have to try to tell my sons to just keep looking at how many bars they have, and select different ssid's based on that - not very user friendly. Will the access point have to be a different ssid - password? I get how to set up the ap as a fixed ip, as I have done with a camera and a few NAS's, but I'm just looking for ideas on how to make this transparent to my users. Thanks all and thanks again to this community, and my hero Merlin!

 

[RMerlin]

Take a look at Asus's Low RSSI setting that was added a few revisions ago on the Wireless -> Professional page. You could try having the main router kick clients that have an RSSI below a certain threshold (measure it using a laptop or another mobile device at the location where you'd like clients to be forced disconnected), and see if clients then do reconnect to the stronger signal of the closer AP.

Not sure how well that would work, but it seems like this was the intention Asus had when they implemented this option.

Also, some wireless clients allows you to set a minimum RSSI before they refuse to connect to a specific access point. On Windows computers check in the Device Manager, on the advanced properties of the wireless card. It's sometimes called "Roaming aggressiveness".

 

[Ebartone]

Thanks !

Thank you Merlin, I will look into that! I sometimes wonder how this is done where I work. We all have laptops, and yet can walk around the entire building with the laptop open, sit down hundreds of yards away (clearly on a new ap) and it seems to pick up without a hitch. I never signed on to a new ap, I suppose it must have lost the previous one, and then looked down the list to the ssid with the best signal. Thanks again.

 

[L&LD]

That's the difference between commercial vs. home wifi - but that only works within one brand of equipment (in other words, it's proprietary).

 

[sinshiva]

That's the difference between commercial vs. home wifi - but that only works within one brand of equipment (in other words, it's proprietary).

cisco aironet can also do it, probably before ubiquiti, but ubiquiti seems slightly more geared to SOHO. not sure who does it better, but ubiquiti does have quite an impressive array of wireless solutions

 

[Ebartone]

Take a look at Asus's Low RSSI setting that was added a few revisions ago on the Wireless -> Professional page. You could try having the main router kick clients that have an RSSI below a certain threshold (measure it using a laptop or another mobile device at the location where you'd like clients to be forced disconnected), and see if clients then do reconnect to the stronger signal of the closer AP.

Not sure how well that would work, but it seems like this was the intention Asus had when they implemented this option.

Also, some wireless clients allows you to set a minimum RSSI before they refuse to connect to a specific access point. On Windows computers check in the Device Manager, on the advanced properties of the wireless card. It's sometimes called "Roaming aggressiveness".

Would the 56 have this ability as well? I'd probably want to buy a less expensive model for the AP. Thanks again.

 

[RMerlin]

Would the 56 have this ability as well? I'd probably want to buy a less expensive model for the AP. Thanks again.

The RT-AC56U does. No idea about the RT-N56U.

 

[ScottW]

is there a way to configure the AP so that it is invisible to my clients (family), that is to say, the devices "automatically" choose to connect to the router if the best signal, or AP if that is stronger? What if they walk around the house? I hate to have to try to tell my sons to just keep looking at how many bars they have, and select different ssid's based on that - not very user friendly. Will the access point have to be a different ssid - password?

I have a large home with (2) N66U's. One is used as the primary router/gateway and to provide wireless access at one end of the house. The second is connected to the first via CAT6, runs in AP mode, and provides wireless access to the other end of the house. Both use the same SSID's and passwords for each band (i.e., one SSID/password for 2.4g, and a second SSID/password for 5g).

Every portable device we have (Windows laptops, iPhones, iPads, android phones, android tablets) automatically "roam" between the two devices, transparently disconnecting from one and connecting to the other when the user walks from one end of the house to the other. Never had a problem with any of them doing this correctly. As long as the SSID and Password is the same, then it is totally automatic -- the devices just switch over whenever "the device decides" the signal is better from the other station.

Some devices are more "aggressive" about switching over to the stronger signal than others. Some will hang on to the weaker signal longer before switching, while others switch very quickly. As RMerlin notes, many Windows driver properties include a "roaming aggressiveness" setting where you can tweak this, while with others (like the iOS devices) you are stuck with whatever the manufacturer has decided is best.

 

[christoman]

ScottW, are you using stock or Merlin firmware?

 

[ScottW]

ScottW, are you using stock or Merlin firmware?

I am currently using the Merlin 3.0.0.4.374.35_2 release. Uptime is showing 43 days 8 hours on the router, and 40 days 6 hours on the access point. I suspect that's when I loaded the firmware on each. Rock solid! Network map lists 25 clients; only 7 of those are wired (one is the N66u AP), all the rest are wireless devices - a mix of laptops, iPhones, iPads, ip cams, and a couple printers.

 

[extensi0n]

I think "Asus's Low RSSI setting" could help...but on another note, I've setup multiple AP's with different brands of routers/firmwares somewhat easily, and depending on your wifi card, it should transition almost seamlessly. Almost seamlessly meaning if the AP is using the same SSID and password (for simplicity sake) and on a different channel, it should latch on to the stronger signal at some point. You may lose signal for a moment depending on your wireless device when the wifi disconnects and reconnects to the AP, or main router, or vice versa, if you are actively roaming around. Some laptops work great, some don't for example.

So, you won't get true seamless mesh routing per say, with different AP's, but it does work.

So if you have an old router laying around, set it up as an AP.

 

[Ebartone]

Thank You!

This has been great feedback, thank you very much everyone!

 

[ScottW]

Almost seamlessly meaning if the AP is using the same SSID and password (for simplicity sake) and on a different channel, it should latch on to the stronger signal at some point.

That's my experience as well -- switching is virtually seamless, you might notice a slight hiccup if you are streaming or something as the transition occurs but normally it isn't noticed.

"extensi0n" adds an important note that I forgot to mention. Make sure the two devices are on non-overlapping channels or they will interfere with each other.

In my case, I have the 2.4g band set for 20MHz width, with the N66U "router" at channel 1 and the N66U "AP" on channel 11. For 5g, I have them set for 40MHz width, with control channels 36 and 149 respectively.

 

[tmorris1]

I have Merlin running on my main ac66 router and an E3000 running DD-WRT as a wired access point without problems. Use Inssider to make sure all are on different non-interfering channels and use the same SSID and password and it works great.

 

[Ebartone]

Dumber Question

Ok, so follow up on Dumb Question, with Dumber Question. If my SSID and associated PW are the same, on both 2.4 and 5Ghz, and the only thing different is the channel between router and access point, I assume when the switch is made the clent IP stays the same, so how do I know the device changed to the AP or back to the Router? Iphone for example I'm not sure what aspect would change to even look at. In the AC68, would the wireless log look different? Told ya it was a dumb question....

 

[ScottW]

Ok, so follow up on Dumb Question, with Dumber Question. If my SSID and associated PW are the same, on both 2.4 and 5Ghz, and the only thing different is the channel between router and access point, I assume when the switch is made the clent IP stays the same, so how do I know the device changed to the AP or back to the Router? Iphone for example I'm not sure what aspect would change to even look at. In the AC68, would the wireless log look different? Told ya it was a dumb question....

On the N66U (I suspect the AC68 is the same, but don't know), the wireless log shows which clients are connected to 2.4g and which are connected to 5g. However, there is some delay in removing clients from the list when disconnected, so they tend to show up on both for a while.

Personally, I don't like clients switching between 2.4 and 5, so I intentionally used different SSIDs for 2.4 and 5. The whole point of having two N66U's was to have GREAT wireless signal (including 5g) anywhere on the property, so that that the 5g-capable devices could connect to the 5g SSID and stay there.

 

[wayner]

Thanks for the info in this thread folks! I have wondered about using the same SSID/password but I always worried that it might cause problems if the mobile device tried to hang onto a weak signal as you would have no way to switch to anotehr device.

I have multiple routers in my house - an Asus N66U as the router and a bunch of other stuff in AP mode from various manufacturers.

 

[ScottW]

Thanks for the info in this thread folks! I have wondered about using the same SSID/password but I always worried that it might cause problems if the mobile device tried to hang onto a weak signal as you would have no way to switch to anotehr device.

It definitely *can* cause that problem, but with a variety of contemporary mobile devices (iphones, ipads, windows7/8 laptops, android devices) I have not experienced that problem. Some are quicker to switch than others, but all switch in an "acceptable" way once they realize there is a much stronger signal available. But of course it all depends on how the manufacturer wrote the driver for that device, and I can't guarantee there aren't some out there that don't switch when they should.

I do have some "dumb" devices that refuse to switch over, but fortunately they aren't mobile devices. For example, some cheap webcams. If I reboot the closer AP, they will lose that signal, see the more distant weaker AP and connect to that. When the closer, stronger AP comes back online, they will stay connected to the weaker one even though they have a much better signal (with same SSID/Password) available. My solution for those "fixed location" devices are some MAC reject filters on the more distant AP, to keep them from trying to connect during moments (like reboots) where the closer AP is temporarily unavailable.

 

[tmorris1]

Inssider will show you if you are connected to the router or AP.