Advice for Network at House

[twolf]

Hello all, I'm looking for some advice for my network setup at a large house with lots of devices. First, here is what is connected to the network:
10 DirecTV receivers, including 2 DVRs and 1 Genie
6 Xbox 360s (most plan to upgrade)
3 Playstation 3s (only one plans to upgrade)
4 smart TVs/Blu-Ray Players
8 laptops
8 Smartphones
2 tablets
1 desktop
1 networked printer

There 8 people that live here and we all love our technology. Right now, the DTV receivers, printer, and desktop are all wired. Everything else is running off of wifi. Needless to say, things are getting a little congested, especially on the 2.4ghz.

What I'm planning on is wiring the whole house for CAT5e or CAT6, with 2 ports in every bedroom (8 bedrooms) and 2 in each living room (it's a duplex that we converted 2 one giant house), for a total of 20 jacks throughout the house. I plan on going from 1 wireless router to adding a wifi access point as well.

I have 2 initial questions:
1) Should I go with a single 24 port gigabit switch or should I go with 2 16 port gigabit switches to make it easier on my network design since the house is still split in half? (Also, recommendations on which specific switch to buy would be appreciated)

2) Should I continue using my consumer level router (an ASUS RT-N66U) to handle the whole network, or should I upgrade to an enterprise level router (any recommendations on which enterprise level router would be great too).

What are your thoughts? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[coxhaus]

I have 2 initial questions:
1) Should I go with a single 24 port gigabit switch or should I go with 2 16 port gigabit switches to make it easier on my network design since the house is still split in half? (Also, recommendations on which specific switch to buy would be appreciated)

2) Should I continue using my consumer level router (an ASUS RT-N66U) to handle the whole network, or should I upgrade to an enterprise level router (any recommendations on which enterprise level router would be great too).

What are your thoughts? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

If you can stay in one switch it would probably be better. You have basically three choices on switches. Buy a standard switch or a managed switch or a layer 3 switch. The standard switch is the plug in and go type; no extra features. The managed switch allows you setup features on the ports. The layer 3 switch allows you to setup routing between VLANs.

If your current router is doing what you want then stick with it.

 

[tipstir]

For you a 48 port should be considered. If you do plan in the near future to add more nodes (devices). Otherwise you can get two 16-ports for 32 ports - 2 ports for in connections leaves you with 30-ports gives you some room from 24-port with extra 6 ports. Go with Enterprise Switch those from TP-Link Jetstream are excellent. I been using one for year now 0% issues.

Model: TL-SG3216 (16-port) if my needs grow I'll just get another TL-SG3216.

I myself from experience rather go with Enterprise Wired Gigabit Router than get all-in-one type. That's me everyone going to something different. Again with my TL-ER6120 0% issues which is not bad considering pretty much setup and configure it and let it run.

WiFi side you use use AP (access points) and all ports should be dedicated to each node (device). Remember what they sell at retail can only handle up to 30 devices or less. Check the device specs. SMB (small business) ones can handle beyond 30 limit. Again you have to check.

Don't share with extra hubs or switches in the rooms. If you think you need dual ports in each for plan ahead. HO (home office) or SOHO (Small Office/Home Office) then you would need more than one. Depends on your needs.

I do recommend getting a high power power on switch for your devices. Full power 24/7. Those cost extra but are well worth.

There are mini rack mounts out there I use one, really don't need full one like most corp network closets have. Something to consider. Air full is very good. You can get shelves an etc. for them. Again everything is rack mounted with screws.

Home wiring you say CAT5e works most use CAT6, I am sticking with CAT5e.

 

[thiggins]

1) Should I go with a single 24 port gigabit switch or should I go with 2 16 port gigabit switches to make it easier on my network design since the house is still split in half? (Also, recommendations on which specific switch to buy would be appreciated)

Two smaller switches might make cabling easier. But the uplink between the two will be a chokepoint if you have a lot of LAN traffic between the two switches.

If you go this way, get smart/managed switches that support Link aggregation. You may want to aggregate four ports to get a larger pipe between the two switches. So that will eat four ports on each end and push you up to two 24 port switches

2) Should I continue using my consumer level router (an ASUS RT-N66U) to handle the whole network, or should I upgrade to an enterprise level router (any recommendations on which enterprise level router would be great too).

How is the current router handling the load? You have an awful lot of devices and I would think you might run out of DHCP leases at times.

What might be a more urgent need are a few access points to share all that wireless traffic. Be sure they are connected via Ethernet and properly placed so that they share the load.

 

[twolf]

Thank you all for your replies! Its given me a lot to think about.

Clearly I have way too many things on the current wifi, and I'm thinking that my router is starting to strain under the load with so many devices on there. I was thinking about adding another AP, but the gamers in the house all keep saying that they want wired - I need another project to do so I might as well wire the whole thing. I want to to CAT6, but the CAT5e wall plates are so much cheaper! I'm gonna bite the bullet and run everything with CAT6 for the extra cost so its done right.

What I'm leaning towards is getting a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter POE for my router, then adding 2 Ubiquiti UniFi AP Pro access points, powered by 2 of the POE ethernet ports on the EdgeRouter.

Two of the other ports will each have a TP-LINK TL-SG1016 16 port gigabit switch for a total of 30 available ports to wire throughout the house. I figured I'd go with 2 16 port unmanaged switches to save money as those switches get decent reviews and are less than $100 each.

The last port on the router will be for the WAN.

I'm trying to do this as cheap as possible without getting horrible stuff. I'm trying to provide a better solution than what I have (currently just the RT-N66U), but don't want to go overboard since I'm running just a bunch of consumer level stuff and no servers.

Thoughts?

 

[coxhaus]

Move everything you can to wire. Your network will run better. Save the wireless bandwidth for mobile devices.

 

[thiggins]

The Ubiquiti EdgeRouter is not easy to set up, requiring command line and config files. Just sayin'...

 

[acuenca]

2) Should I continue using my consumer level router (an ASUS RT-N66U) to handle the whole network, or should I upgrade to an enterprise level router (any recommendations on which enterprise level router would be great too).

What are your thoughts? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

If the RT-N66U has all the feature you need, I can't see any reason to change it.

 

[twolf]

I should be fine with command line as I've worked with Cisco routers before. I've seen some pre-configured config files floating around for Unibiqi routers so I'm pretty confident I'll be able to make it work.

As far as my current router goes, it's not about features but more about its capabilities. I actually have most features of the RT-N66U turned off right now to free up resources. I'm just worried that it just can't handle all the devices I have on the network.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[acuenca]

I'm just worried that it just can't handle all the devices I have on the network.

I'm not a router expert, but I doubt the number of devices can be an issue as long as it doesn't exceed class C IP addressing : 255.
From my understanding of TCP/IP protocols, what could be an issue related to routing :
- the number of TCP connections your router is able to handle : both router handles more than 30 000 (RT-N66U can even handle a few thousand more)
- throughput : you need to have a router able to process as much data your ISP¨can handle. RT-N66U can handle 700Mbps, and at that level your gigabit switch would also struggle anyway.

(I could be wrong, I've a very good understanding of TCP/IP but I might ignore some router limits)

 

[twolf]

I'm not a router expert, but I doubt the number of devices can be an issue as long as it doesn't exceed class C IP addressing : 255.
From my understanding of TCP/IP protocols, what could be an issue related to routing :
- the number of TCP connections your router is able to handle : both router handles more than 30 000 (RT-N66U can even handle a few thousand more)
- throughput : you need to have a router able to process as much data your ISP¨can handle. RT-N66U can handle 700Mbps, and at that level your gigabit switch would also struggle anyway.

(I could be wrong, I've a very good understanding of TCP/IP but I might ignore some router limits)

So I should save myself $200, use my RT-N66U as the router and throw an extra AP on there instead?

 

[stevech]

many consumer WiFi routers have a limit of about 32 simultaneously associated clients. That's OK for most users.

Adding AP(s), be the APs or re-purposed WiFi routers as APs, is the best way to improve coverage. A zillion watt WiFi router won't cure the from-client weak signal challenge.

 

[acuenca]

So I should save myself $200, use my RT-N66U as the router and throw an extra AP on there instead?

Again, I'm no expert. I'm just pragamatic :
- Is your router failing? If so, I would change it.
- Do you want to improve your wi-fi coverage, if so I would add extra APs.

 

[tipstir]

Look for higher mW AP or Router. If your wanting to save money. Best to get the same brand and type.

 

[Samir]

That's going to be one heck of a house!

My parent's house is similar. We have dual cat 5 run to each room for a total of about 50 or so runs.

So you've got about 50 devices. Sounds like the current router is handling it okay, and as others have said, as long as it can handle the number of simultaneous sessions, you're fine. In fact, I would be more worried about Internet bandwidth to the network, unless you've got at least 10Mbits upload available.

I run a network a little more complex at my parents house with some site-to-site VPNs and servers, but not as many devices. I have everything wired into a 24 port switch and a 16 port I had lying around. Two access points are connected in two of the rooms for coverage of most of the house, and I have a few powerline adapters where some rooms didn't have the cat5 jacks in the right places.

With everything you have right now running off of wifi, you're getting killed right there. I'd actually do your upgrades incramentally, watching and testing what you really need since you're on a budget.

The first thing I'd do is definitely put in all that yummy cat6 and get all of those ports into a switch, even if unmanaged, and see what that does for your load. Something tells me this may be almost enough to fix all your problems.

Then if you're still needing some wireless coverage for those wireless devices, look into either adding an access point or two in strategic places.

Then the final piece would be the core router. See how it's doing under all this load. If it seems like it needs to be replaced, then do so.

 

[clintb]

Look for higher mW AP or Router. If your wanting to save money. Best to get the same brand and type.

Ugh, no. It doesn't matter if the AP/router/whatever has 1000 Watts of transmit power. If the client cannot transmit back due to distance, obstruction, whatever, there is no reason to go with the "more power" mantra.

Design it correctly, with multiple AP's in strategic locations and get everything you possibly can onto wired connections, leaving wireless for roaming laptops and mobile devices.

 

[stevech]

Ugh, no. It doesn't matter if the AP/router/whatever has 1000 Watts of transmit power. If the client cannot transmit back due to distance, obstruction, whatever, there is no reason to go with the "more power" mantra.

Design it correctly, with multiple AP's in strategic locations and get everything you possibly can onto wired connections, leaving wireless for roaming laptops and mobile devices.

Very true. Often people think of wifi like broadcast radio .. But wifi is two-way. Weakest link (direction to/from) is the constraint.

 

[Samir]

Intersting. I learned something new about wifi.

 

[sinshiva]

Hi,

I would keep the n66u as the firewall. disable the radios and as many non-essential features as possible. You'd need to be approaching gigabit on your WAN link to need better. it wasn't that long ago that most routers had a NAT throughput < 90mb, which translated to capping my old cable 50mbit connection to around 35mbit. with the n66u, i'd feel comfortable with a WAN link up to 200mbit with the amount of connected devices being irrelevant, at least in your case.

imo, most cisco stuff besides perhaps their switches or their $20,000 firewalls are garbage.

I think PoE APs are a good idea, 2 would probably be fine for mostly mobile devices and occasionally browsing on a laptop, etc. link aggregation will be a must if you run multiple switches. (personally, i'm trying to run as few devices as possible to save on 24/7 power usage, but sounds like it can't apply to your setup.) i don't really see much benefit to dividing the lan to 2 switches when you are just going to create issues that need to be solved with band-aid-ish solutions like aggregation. Aggregation is cool to play with, but i wouldn't expect the performance to be superior to a lan without. i try not to force switches to think very hard.

Cat6 is probably a good idea, just made the upgrade myself and it makes me feel better inside, even if i'm not really noticing a performance difference xD.

What's going to be the biggest problem for your house is your upstream bandwidth, really. what's that look like?

 

[twolf]

Thanks for the latest replies! I have been out of town and haven't been able to check the forum.

The other day I decided to see how my router performed via ethernet while everything else was hooked up via wireless. Even with everything going on (except maybe one of my roommates watching Netflix), I was still able to get 80mbps download! So I think the RT-N66U can handle everything, just wireless is killing us.

I upgraded inSSID to a 5 day trial and really looked at all the wireless networks around me. From one of my rooms, I can pick up 9 different 2.4ghz wireless networks in my neighborhood. If that wasn't bad enough, one of them was set to Ch 3 and another was set to Ch 7, and they happen to be two of the strongest networks for me besides my own. Its almost as if my neighbors are trying to ruin wireless for me!

So I'm going to keep the RT-N66U and see how that does hooked up to 2 16-port unmanaged switches from TP-Link. I went with 2 16-port switches as they were still way cheaper than a single 48 port switch. I'm going to have each switch hooked up directly to the router so I don't have to do any link aggregation or anything like that. I'm also going to put 2 UniFi AP Pro APs in the house, one on each side with one being upstairs and another being downstairs. With every room wired with CAT6, only phones, tablets, and non-gaming laptops will be on the wifi so people should complain about the wifi a lot less... although I'm still going to have problems on the 2.4ghz with the neighbors using the wrong damn channels. Currently I am the only 5ghz network in the neighborhood so I guess my roommates will just have to upgrade their gear to 5ghz if they want to have faster wifi.

Because of college I probably won't be able to really start to wire the house until Christmas break, but I'll keep you guys updated.