Advice on setting up FiOS w/ 2 WAPs

[rwilner]

Hi All,
First time poster here, but not a n00b to networking. Couldn't find answers with searches so thought I'd post the question below....

What's the best way to connect and configure 2 WAPs with Verizon FiOS?

House: My house is a 3 story split level and the FiOS ONT is in a corner of the basement, so I need 2 WAPs...one in the basement near the ONT and one on the 3rd floor.

Goals: Good wireless coverage with maximum speeds (of course), and a single SSID that is seamless when I move from the basement to the 3rd floor with tablet / laptop / smartphone.

Equipment and devices:

• FiOS actiontec router with the wireless turned OFF
• Netgear R7000
• Netgear R6300
• Anything fixed in place is hardwired (Rokus, TVs, NAS, Home Theater Receiver, etc)
• Anything mobile is connected wirelessly (of course)...tablets, laptops, smartphones.

Options: Which of the following is the best setup?

1. R7000 and R6300 both configured as APs with the same SSID and password, with their WAN ports plugged into a LAN port of the Actiontec.
2. R7000 set up as its own domain (10.x.x.x) with its WAN port plugged into the Actiontec LAN port; R6300 set up as an AP for the R7000, it's WAN port plugged into the R6300's LAN port. In this config the R7000 would get a 192.168.x.x IP from the Actiontec, and the R6300 and everything on my network would get a 10.0.x.x IP served from the R7000. (I like this because I can use the R7000's advanced access control, QoS, etc...but will I take a speed hit by setting up 2 domains?)
3. Bypassing the Actiontec altogether and interfacing the R7000 to the FiOS ONT...is this possible???
4. Some other option not identified above

Looking forward to responses and thanks in advance for your help!
Rich

 

[stevech]

before choosing hardware, decide on how each AP will connect to the router...
cat5
IP on power line (HomePlug, etc)
MoCA

less desirably, WDS

 

[rwilner]

Sorry if I wasn't clear in the OP, all the routers will be connected with Cat 5e.

The ideal solution is to bypass the Actiontec I think, but because it's needed for the TV channel guide, I don't think that's an option.

 

[azazel1024]

Set the actiontec to bridge mode, then plug the WAN port of the basement router in to an actiontec LAN port and then plug the upstairs router in to the basement router LAN to LAN. Disable DHCP on the upstairs router and it'll function as a WAP.

Done.

I personally chucked my actiontec piece of crap. I had it running in bridge mode for awhile. Then I had Verizon activate the ethernet port of my ONT so I could connect my router directly to the ONT, but still had to run the actiontec in bridge mode for guide/VOD. Finally a couple of months ago I got an actiontec ecb2500 dedicated moca bridge because it uses a fraction of the power, zero setup (PnP) and my own gear and then gave back the actiontec router/bridge combo.

You do not want seperate IP ranges. If you set it up as above, everyone from the first router back is on one IP range and network. Then set the SSID and password the same between the router and the router in acess point mode. Roaming should be pretty seamless. I have a 1 router, 2 AP setup as above (except no actiontec between my router and my ONT at all, though I did at one point about a year ago) and roaming works well. All one IP range and all one SSID.

 

[rwilner]

Azazel
Thanks, this is exactly the info I was looking for.

Any tricks to getting my R7000 to obtain a WAN IP from the ISP? do I have to somehow "release" the WAN IP via the Actiontec?

 

[rwilner]

just found this
http://www.dslreports.com/faq/15992

So i'm all set. Haven't tried it yet but it does seem straightforward, and if it works, I'll be replacing the actiontec with a MoCA bridge

Thanks all
Rich

 

[azazel1024]

Yup, that is the link I had used way back when.

As for the IP, yes, when you go to set the actiontec in to bridge mode, you have to do an IP release first. Otherwise you are stuck waiting till the current lease expires before you can get a WAN IP address for your router.

Anything from minutes to 24hrs.

I highly recommend the ECB2500 Actiontec bridge. Its about the size of a double thick iPhone, uses about 3-3.5w (compared to the ~12w my actiontec bridge/router combo used) and is complete PnP (zero setup, no management interface). It ONLY works for LAN bridging. You cannot use it as a WAN bridge. So if you want to use it, you'll have to have the ethernet port on the ONT enabled to plug your router directly in to that. It will however allow guide info and VOD to work as it'll bridge your coax to the ethernet LAN so that your DVR(s) can get out to the internet.

The ethernet port ONT bit should just be a phone call to verizon asking them to switch your internet from the coax to the ethernet port on your ONT. When I called the help desk person was totally clueless and send a tech out (at no charge, I confirmed repeatedly that I wouldn't be charged for the service call). Tech calls me the next day on his way confirming was was up. He shows up 10 minutes later and says he called in the change and...was that all I really needed? Why didn't I do that over the phone?

I explained and he laughed and shook his head. It took about 5 minutes from the time he said he called till when verizon remotely enabled/switched things over to the ethernet port as he pulled up while I had the ONT cover open and the green lights turned on on the ethernet port about 60 seconds later.

 

[whsbuss]

Well without the Actiontec in the network, FiOS TV is not gonna work correctly. Especially with the new Quantum TV VMS.

I have my Actiontec Rev I wireless disabled and connect the LAN from my Asus RT-AC68U to a LAN port on the Actiontec. RT-AC68U setup as AP. Everything works great.

 

[CaptainSTX]

Some people knock the Actiontec router but mine has worked flawlessly and in the past ten months I have only had to reboot it once. Because it is fed using coax cable it can be installed anywhere in your home where you where there is a coax drop. It does not need to be installed near FIOS fiber interface is located.

I use the Actiontec's Wifi to service one area of my home as well as feed two other WAPs. One WAP is double NATed by connecting LAN to WAN the other WAP is connected LAN to LAN and operates strictly as a WAP. Unless you have the need to isolate one of your SSID's from you primary network I would recommend that you connect LAN-LAN and assign the DHCP function to one router only be it your Actiontec or some other device. Also be sure that your set top boxes get an IP in the range that they expect (192.168.1.100 - .149 ) or you will have issues with them.

I prefer that all three SSIDs are different so I can easily confirm that I am connected to the nearest and hopefully strongest WiFi signal. Some wireless clients do a better job of connecting to stronger signals than others. I have 30+ 2.4 Ghz SSIDs nearby all reasonably strong on every channel. If you want to not interfere with your own AP signals put all your radios on different channels regardless if you use the same SSID for all of them.

All devices on my network that I need speed and reliable connection for are hardwired. some by MOCA, others by Ethernet and even a couple by Powerline.

Your success in seamless WiFi roaming will depend on your devices. My wife's phone will try to stay connected to the last SSID it has been connected with until the signal is zero. She doesn't care because even with a terrible connection her e-mails get delivered. My phone on the other hand is more discriminating and if the WiFi isn't good it will switch over to cellular data automatically or if the WiFi is better than the 4G voice signal my phone will make and receive phone calls using WiFi. This allows my WiFi APs to act micro cell towers.

Merlin's firmware will allow you to try and force a hand off at -70 Db, but in my case, to be sure that I'm connecting to a signal stronger than my neighbor's SSID, I would like to be able to set the threshold to -50 as it most of my home at least two of my SSIDs are stronger than -70.

Many things to consider when you are setting up your WiFi network. Probably isn't a single optimized solution for everyone.

 

[rwilner]

Well without the Actiontec in the network, FiOS TV is not gonna work correctly. Especially with the new Quantum TV VMS.

Source please.

All information on the web is contrary to this, as there are specific configurations that eliminate the actiontec completely and retain all VOD / Guide info for the STBs.

I have my Actiontec Rev I wireless disabled and connect the LAN from my Asus RT-AC68U to a LAN port on the Actiontec. RT-AC68U setup as AP. Everything works great.

This is my setup now (with 2 WAPs). Thing is, the R7000 (or fill in the blank "power" router) has many advanced features that you can't utilize if you configure it as a simple AP (QoS for example).

It seems silly to have the Actiontec as an in-between device that's adding no value, consuming power, and only acts as another potential point of failure / bandwidth limiting device.

 

[byonik]

FWIW, I have my R7000 connected to my ONT thru my AT using MoCA bridge mode, and it has been 100% trouble free. The only downside I suppose is the wasted power drawn by the AT. The upside for me is that using the AT as a bridge allows me to get away with using a single WAP for my whole house.

My FiOS ONT is also in the corner of my basement (as many probably are), and the basement is obviously a terrible location for a WAP. Especially one that has to cover the whole house - not to mention outdoor entertainment areas and the garage. My house was built in 2000, so it was wired with CAT5e and dual RG6 coax to most rooms. All of those cables home run to a wiring panel in the basement.

Prior to getting the R7000, the AT was my primary router and was located at the home wiring panel. The WAN side of the AT was connected to the ONT over coax, and the LAN side of the AT was connected to an 8-port 1Gb switch that fed all of my CAT5e trunks to hardwired devices and other switches around the house. Since the AT was in the basement, I had wireless turned off on it and had two other wireless routers placed on the upper floors in AP mode, just to service my WiFi needs. When I got the R7000, I wanted to take advantage of it's awesome WiFi range, and also it's routing performance and management features, but I had a problem.

Since my previous WAPs were just end nodes hanging off the 8-port 1Gb switch in the basement, I was able to get away with a single Cat5e run to each of them. If I was to make the R7000 my only AP and locate it on an upper floor, and also make it my primary router, I would need two Cat5e runs to it - one for the connection from the R7000 WAN port to the AT in the basement, and another run from an R7000 LAN port back to the 8-port 1Gb switch that fed the rest of the Cat5e runs in the house. Problem is - I only had one Cat5e run to the best location for the WAP (two-story family room).

The solution was to keep the ONT in MoCA WAN mode and then leverage one of my two coax runs to allow me to locate the AT in the family room instead of in the basement. The AT is in MoCA bridge mode, and feeds the WAN port on my R7000, which is now my primary router and the only WAP in the house. While I do have FiOS TV, I use a Tivo Roamio and a bunch of Tivo Minis instead of FiOS STBs, so I don't need the FiOS guide data. The Roamio also hosts it's own MoCA network, so I still have a MoCA network and am able to connect some of my Minis via coax and some via Ethernet.

If you do have FiOS STBs, I thought there was a config option to make the AT a MoCA bridge for the WAN connection from the ONT to the R7000, and then feed it with an R7000 LAN downlink to create a MoCA LAN for the FiOS STBs and any other MoCA-attached devices. I could be wrong on that though. Worse case, you just need to add a MoCA bridge.

My primary purpose for sharing this very long-winded story was to point out that keeping the AT in the mix may serve a purpose. For me, it allowed me to use my R7000 as my primary router, and also allowed my to locate it optimally so I can get away with a single WAP for my entire 5000+ sq. ft house and outdoor areas too.

 

[KGB7]

Rev I acctiontec router is a good piece of hardware. Just set the Netgear routers as AP and you are done.

If you have older rev G, then go to local Verizon store and exchange it for I model. Call ahead for availability.

Latest firmware for I model fixes few issues, but it hides upnp and igmp menus...manually force firmware update.
You can google both of them for short cuts. Enable upmp and disable igmp proxy in new rev I acctiontec router.

And disable WiFi on acctiontec router.


And as a bonus, if you want to, go to Open DNS site, and enter 2 DNS Ip's in to acctiontec router, instead of using Verizon DNS auto ip's. You can sign up for free account at opendns to more free futures.

 

[sfx2000]

Well without the Actiontec in the network, FiOS TV is not gonna work correctly. Especially with the new Quantum TV VMS.

I have my Actiontec Rev I wireless disabled and connect the LAN from my Asus RT-AC68U to a LAN port on the Actiontec. RT-AC68U setup as AP. Everything works great.

Exactly - the Actiontec is needed for TV in your case - so putting it in the bridge mode breaks that part of things - so you can disable WiFi on it, and then use a dedicated AP (or Router in AP mode) for the WiFi.

One downside though - if one is using one of the "wireless" set-top boxes on a secondary TV, you might have to keep WiFi on the provider's box... kinda sucks there - better to run some coax on a splitter there if possible (some of the FIOS folks don't actually do broadcast on the secondary boxes, it's switched digital video, which again means, back to the carriers box...)