AI Mesh - AC to AX Mesh roadmap options

[Liviuncl]

I have a AI Mesh with 4 routers - main is an AC86u, with 2 x AC66uB1 as nodes on wired backhaul and one AX56u as a wireless mesh node - this mesh serves 25 devices, some of them streaming, some computers and tablets, no gaming interest. All routers are using 3.0.0.4.386_4 Merlin firmware.
The main internet connection is a 1Gbps and even though that may be upgraded in the next years, it won‘t change in the next year at least.

The mesh is relatively stable, but I have devices which would benefit from AX and they don’t, usually the devices around the house have 100-200 Mbps speed - decent but not great.

If money wouldn’t be an issue, I’d go to completely replace the AC routers with better AX alternatives, but with the cost constraints I think I’ll favour a step by step approach, mixing AX and AC in the same mesh, until it will be all AX.

I’m very tempted to go for an AX86S (because the AX86u is more expensive where I live ..100EUR more) to replace the AC86u as the main router and the AC86u will replace one of the AC66uB1.
Would that make any (significant) difference? My plan forward would be to buy an AX86U when maybe the price would go down and have that as the main router (prepared for the main connection upgrade to more than 1Gbps) and more the AX86S into a mesh node position.

 

[OzarkEdge]

I have a AI Mesh with 4 routers - main is an AC86u, with 2 x AC66uB1 as nodes on wired backhaul and one AX56u as a wireless mesh node - this mesh serves 25 devices, some of them streaming, some computers and tablets, no gaming interest. All routers are using 3.0.0.4.386_4 Merlin firmware.
The main internet connection is a 1Gbps and even though that may be upgraded in the next years, it won‘t change in the next year at least.

The mesh is relatively stable, but I have devices which would benefit from AX and they don’t, usually the devices around the house have 100-200 Mbps speed - decent but not great.

If money wouldn’t be an issue, I’d go to completely replace the AC routers with better AX alternatives, but with the cost constraints I think I’ll favour a step by step approach, mixing AX and AC in the same mesh, until it will be all AX.

I’m very tempted to go for an AX86S (because the AX86u is more expensive where I live ..100EUR more) to replace the AC86u as the main router and the AC86u will replace one of the AC66uB1.
Would that make any (significant) difference? My plan forward would be to buy an AX86U when maybe the price would go down and have that as the main router (prepared for the main connection upgrade to more than 1Gbps) and more the AX86S into a mesh node position.

The AX86S will have less CPU, memory, and the 2.5GbE WAN/LAN port, which may not matter. Maybe the radios are different(?).

AX radios being newer tech may perform a bit better, but WiFi coverage will not be significantly different except for adding more AX coverage at the router location (your main goal?).

Changing the wireless backhaul from acx2 to axx2 at 80 MHz might improve throughput a touch, but not as much as axx3 which the AX56U can not do (a result of buying down previously). 160 MHz bw would help, if you can fit it into your 5.0 radio space without channel DFS/WiFi interference affecting the backhaul and the user experience.

AC86U as node will extend AC coverage ~20% there (affecting signal overlap and roaming) and may then improve AC connections a bit there over what users currently experience.

Overall... incremental improvement that users may or may not notice depending on what change is where.

OE

 

[L&LD]

Welcome to the forums @Liviuncl.

Is that 1Gbps ISP connection symmetrical?

How big of an area (and on how many levels) are you covering with 4 routers?

How many client devices in total are you concurrently using in a typical day?

Based on my experience with the RT-AX68U (see below), I don't believe your network will see a difference until you replace all routers (and you may only need two at that point). Note in the link below that a single RT-AX68U effectively replaced 2x RT-AC86Us (my previous 'entry-level router' for 2021/2022).

Report - 2x RT-AX68U upgrade over 2x RT-AC86U in wireless backhaul mode


Using the RT-AX56U to service 25 devices (am I reading that correctly?), is taking a big chunk of possible throughput from the network as a whole, because that wireless backhaul AP is effectively a Repeater.

Repeater mode = wireless AiMesh


With a wired backhaul available in your environment, a 1Gbps ISP, and a reasonably sized home, I expect 2x RT-AX86Us to give your network a huge boost in throughput, stability, and lower latency vs. what you have now. Note that I am suggesting you sell/give away all the current routers you have. Unless you can use them in Media Bridge mode for any wired devices that are too far from an Ethernet connection.

Media Bridge Mode


The link below gives you my direct experience with 2x RT-AX86Us in wired backhaul (via the 2.5GbE Ports) mode. Note that anything other than a second RT-AX86U degraded the improvements the first RT-AX86U brought.

Also, be sure to experiment and optimize the location, orientation, and antennae placement of any new routers being deployed. The 'old' isn't necessarily what the 'new' will be best set to. And note that even a few inches in 3D space can make substantial differences too with the newest hardware.

RT-AX86U vs. RT-AX88U

386.1 Final 2x RT-AX86Us 2.5GbE Backhaul

AiMesh Ideal Placement

Control Channel Setup 2021


As an overview, always remember that a network is a chain. The weakest link will determine the overall network performance. This is why I don't believe in upgrading a network 'piece-meal'.

I'm pleasantly surprised that you've got this mix of routers working as well as you do today. But going forward, you may want to standardize the router models to the ones that closely mimic the capabilities and features that the main router can offer, along with the same level of firmware and SDKs used (or simply use identical models).

HTH

 

[Liviuncl]

Thanks for the reply, I must have lost it somehow in the notifications until today.
So, the ISP connection is not symmetrical - 1Gbps download, 700 Mbps upload - but it doesn't bother me so much.
The current Mesh setup is like this, on two floors (approx 1400 sqft/floor - routers: main and living room are on the first floor, AX56U and the other AC66U B1 are on the second, with the AC66U being the in the center of the space) .. and the number of clients varies from 18 like now to 26 during the more crowded evenings. The AX65U is only use as a coverage "extension" for the bedroom, where because of the walls the second floor AC66B B1 couldn't deliver stable connection.

My plan (currently) is to replace the AC routers with AX routers, I was thinking of buying an AX86U after testing the waters with the AX86S so the setup would evolve like this:
1/[NOW] AC86U (main) + 2 AC66U B1 (nodes wired) + AX56U
2/ AX86S (main) + AC86U (wired - 2nd floor) + AC66U B1 (wired) + AX56U
3/ AX86U (main) + AX86S (wired - 2nd floor) + AC86U (wired) + AX56U

If this setup requires even the last push with converting to AX, I'll see .. but that was kind of my plan, doing things bit by bit, instead of a Big Bang. I was also tempted by the 2x AX92U because of the price .. but since they are not supported by Merlin, I'll skip this option.

I see the point with going AX with the best and buying 2 x AX86U, but for now the cost is not very friendly and with the AX86S at 200USD, I was tempted to go with an step-by-step approach.

 

[Liviuncl]

I received and installed the AX86S as the main router and we are in scenario 2

I can only imagine what 2 x AX86U (or even AX86S) could do .. usually I wasn't able to get wireless speeds up to 800 Mbps from my Mac mini. Now I have seen several times 950-1000 Mbps from the same machine, with the same placement. After I added the other nodes (especially the wireless one) the speed is not that high, but still 700-800 Mbps is more than decent (to my taste).

One thing to notice .. I couldn't add the third node wireless, only when connected by cable ... if it started the "Add Node" wirelessly, the progress percent was going very fast (like seconds) to 100% only to say that you can't add the node. I added it wired initially and then moved it to the place it usually operates. I'll see how things will go with the other devices, so far it looks stable .. is it faster? yes, but not nigh and day ... I mean, I went with my principal computer from an average of 500Mbps to 720Mbps, which is very good progress (almost 50%), I'll see with the others.

The AX86U will come eventually when I'll switch to a faster internet connection .. at that moment the 2.5Gbps will matter (and more memory and more cores and ..)

 

[L&LD]

Congrats on the upgrade!

~50% faster is night and day. And a 1Gbps down/700Mbps up is symmetrical enough.

With a footprint of 1,400 SqFt (the second level is almost insignificant, in 3D space), you're possibly needlessly saturating your home with even a second router. Each additional AP added in such a small space is creating additional wireless issues in your environment. Particularly when those additional APs are lower end, AC class, equipment. As you've noticed already in your post above.

I think you may (still) have too many routers in the home. Except for obviously extraordinary situations, even a third AiMesh is rarely needed (even if it is wanted). At least when using the top currently recommended router today.

Current Order of Recommended Routers Late 2021

When you're able, see what testing with just the 1 or 2 AX routers you currently have does for your network experience. Even if I believe the RT-AX56U model router is not sufficiently powerful to test a 2x AX setup properly with.

Here is what a single router can do in the right environment over an ISP setup 'mesh' from 2016. Note that today's routers easily surpass the throughput that the now old RT-AC3100 was capable of back then.

RT-AC3100 Report https://www.snbforums.com/threads/s...-go-with-the-rt-ac1900p-v3.34748/#post-281391

 

[leerees]

I received and installed the AX86S as the main router and we are in scenario 2
View attachment 39497
I can only imagine what 2 x AX86U (or even AX86S) could do .. usually I wasn't able to get wireless speeds up to 800 Mbps from my Mac mini. Now I have seen several times 950-1000 Mbps from the same machine, with the same placement. After I added the other nodes (especially the wireless one) the speed is not that high, but still 700-800 Mbps is more than decent (to my taste).

One thing to notice .. I couldn't add the third node wireless, only when connected by cable ... if it started the "Add Node" wirelessly, the progress percent was going very fast (like seconds) to 100% only to say that you can't add the node. I added it wired initially and then moved it to the place it usually operates. I'll see how things will go with the other devices, so far it looks stable .. is it faster? yes, but not nigh and day ... I mean, I went with my principal computer from an average of 500Mbps to 720Mbps, which is very good progress (almost 50%), I'll see with the others.

The AX86U will come eventually when I'll switch to a faster internet connection .. at that moment the 2.5Gbps will matter (and more memory and more cores and ..)

Asus have dedicated products for AiMesh. Their flagship is the XT12 which is a tri band router. The AX86u is only dual band. Smart Connect on a triband router will use the 2 5ghz bands to balance the load between clients.

The XT12 will give you lower latency between nodes and higher throughput compared to an AX86u

You can't rate these products by how much RAM and cores they have. It's not relevant as they are not PC's. They are routers purpose built to route traffic.

What matters is the real world performance. The values you should measure are WiFi latency (ping tests), WiFI sustained throughput and range.

I keep seeing slower routers favoured on these forums because they have lots of cores and RAM. Even the AX92u's I use offer lower latency than the AX86u and they have less RAM and cores. 950mb/s and +1ms per node.