AI Mesh vs AP

[JefferMC]

This is probably a dead horse, but searching through the AI Mesh threads didn't seem to answer my questions, so, please tolerate me (or refer me to the existing thread I missed):

I have a RT-AX68U installed as my third generation ASUS Router. It does a decent job of covering the house, even when located a little off center, but the 5 GHz suffers a bit on the very far end of the other floor. A spare RT-AX86S dropped in my lap and I thought I'd throw it on the other end of the house to improve 5 GHz coverage there. I figured its a great way to try out AI Mesh. I ran an Ethernet between the original AX68 and the new home of the AX86 After a few bumps and starts, I got AI Mesh up and working and several devices have moved over there, and the display is nice and all, firmware update for the Mesh client was easy, but...

They share a channel? What? Why? Can someone explain the benefit here?
I couldn't seem to get the Mesh node to sync up through an Ethernet Switch... is this expected?

I'm really thinking I should shutdown the AI Mesh and set the new device up as an Access Point instead. I know I will lose the integrated Wi-Fi client display on the main router, but I'll still be able to get Wi-Fi connection information off the Access Point by visiting it, and those clients will appear as Wired clients on the main router. I can lock the channels somewhere sane (different, and not on 2.4 Channel 8).

So... other than losing the accurate connection type from the main router and the ability to reboot and do firmware upgrades from the main router (and the ability to keep working if the Ethernet cable suddenly turns to dust), what do I really lose by using the AX86 in Access Point mode instead of as an AI MESH node?

 

[dlandiss]

As best I can figure out what you lose by using access points instead of mesh is "frustration and unreliability." If you have Ethernet to your second location just use it as an access point, and walk away smiling.

 

[RandomUser777]

As best I can figure out what you lose by using access points instead of mesh is "frustration and unreliability." If you have Ethernet to your second location just use it as an access point, and walk away smiling.

You also lose guest Wi-Fi at the APs without AiMesh

 

[donbru]

Go with the wired Access Point. You won't regret it. I've been using this setup for several years with guest Wi-Fi on both routers using Guest Network #2 for several IOT devices with no issues.

 

[Dedel66]

Go with the wired Access Point. You won't regret it. I've been using this setup for several years with guest Wi-Fi on both routers using Guest Network #2 for several IOT devices with no issues.

So you have got no "real" guestnetwork that is separated from your intranet.

 

[heysoundude]

I'm thinking the ax86 should be the router and the ax68 should be the access point, but I honestly can't recall the specs/capabilities of the two off the op of my head, so I'll leave that decision to you, OP.
That said, please read and consider this article as the basis for designing your home network:

SNB Answer Guy: How Many SSIDs Is Too Many? - SmallNetBuilder

How many SSID's should you use in a multi AP network? The SNB Answer Guy knows.

www.smallnetbuilder.com

 

[bbunge]

This is probably a dead horse, but searching through the AI Mesh threads didn't seem to answer my questions, so, please tolerate me (or refer me to the existing thread I missed):

I have a RT-AX68U installed as my third generation ASUS Router. It does a decent job of covering the house, even when located a little off center, but the 5 GHz suffers a bit on the very far end of the other floor. A spare RT-AX86S dropped in my lap and I thought I'd throw it on the other end of the house to improve 5 GHz coverage there. I figured its a great way to try out AI Mesh. I ran an Ethernet between the original AX68 and the new home of the AX86 After a few bumps and starts, I got AI Mesh up and working and several devices have moved over there, and the display is nice and all, firmware update for the Mesh client was easy, but...

They share a channel? What? Why? Can someone explain the benefit here?
I couldn't seem to get the Mesh node to sync up through an Ethernet Switch... is this expected?

I'm really thinking I should shutdown the AI Mesh and set the new device up as an Access Point instead. I know I will lose the integrated Wi-Fi client display on the main router, but I'll still be able to get Wi-Fi connection information off the Access Point by visiting it, and those clients will appear as Wired clients on the main router. I can lock the channels somewhere sane (different, and not on 2.4 Channel 8).

So... other than losing the accurate connection type from the main router and the ability to reboot and do firmware upgrades from the main router (and the ability to keep working if the Ethernet cable suddenly turns to dust), what do I really lose by using the AX86 in Access Point mode instead of as an AI MESH node?

To answer your question about the switch: If it is a managed switch you will have problem setting up an AiMesh node. There is a way to set the VLAN's in the switch to make it work. Search the forum for your how to.

I agree the AX86S should be the main router. As whether to mesh or AP ... I've done both and feel AiMesh is better for my house. As for the same channels and SSID's ... works here.

 

[maxbraketorque]

A few comments:

- I used to think that AP mode would result in dropped calls when transitioning between the main and AP routers, but I had no dropped calls when transitioning back and forth between main and AP during testing this past weekend. I went back and forth several times, no dropout or dropped call.

- You can get a fully isolated guest network using the main/AP setup, but it requires setting up a script that configures the AP at start time. I've done it now with all my main/AP installations. There is a thread on the topic somewhere on this forum. If you can't find it, I will send you my script.

- I would run the AX86S as the main as well. The AX68U has been EOL'ed by ASUS and will not be supported for much longer.

- I've always been puzzled about why ASUS has mesh routers occupy the same channel as the main router. The explanation I've heard is that it helps when a device transitions from one router to another, but I run my main and AP routers on different channels, and I had no dropped calls.

 

[JefferMC]

Okay...

• First, thanks for all the feedback!
• Yes, the switch is managed (and is running VLANs), so that explains why it wouldn't sync up through it.
• Dang... I bought the RT-AX68U on sale (and not a very big one) last summer, then didn't have time to deal with putting it in for months... Thanksgiving, I think. Dang, short lifetime. It's under warranty until Summer 2025, though.
• The RT-AX86S (almost) literally dropped in my lap; I had no plan to get it and thought I'd put it to use since it was here. If I can backup the configuration and swap them, I might do that. I don't really want to retype node names and sticky DHCP assignments. Hm... I hope it's power requirements aren't any greater; it shouldn't be.
• Yes, I have Ethernet, because I think Wireless backhaul is a crime against nature; Extenders should never have been invented. The cable was run (long story), but unterminated, so I terminated it, built a shelf in the HVAC closet where the AP is sitting this weekend and fired it up.
• Using the same channel means there will be interference at the overlap. But it means fewer worries about picking clear channels for each device and the width of such channels and especially if the dang thing needs a channel for backhaul (which I don't).
• I have very little in the way of guest traffic; I think I can live without it on the AP. If that changes, I'll hunt for the updated script then.
• Something I just thought of: clients can be locked to one or the other node in AI MESH; is there some way of implementing that as a router and an Access Point with the same SSID?

I got a little spoiled with the slick user interface and set up of Ubiquiti APs with a UDMP that someone else bought--then realized they had no idea what they were doing and called me in to set it up. It uses different channels, etc. like I would expect a system to. (That system replaced the AX86S and some older Aruba AC APs). If someone handed me a $1000 gift card to spend on my home network, I'd have to consider getting one for here, though it seems a bit glitchy in some departments.

 

[Dedel66]

If I can backup the configuration and swap them,

You can´t swap configurations between different models.

Using the same channel means there will be interference at the overlap.

It´s working here for years now in meshmode. It doesn´t work well if the nodes are too close to the main router. You have to think about the topology of wlan accesspoints but it´s same with seperated accesspoints (NO meshsystem).

At least it´s not a big deal to test AP mode versus meshmode. I would like to know your final decision.

 

[JefferMC]

You have to think about the topology of wlan accesspoints but it´s same with seperated accesspoints (NO meshsystem).

In AI MESH, the software gives them both the same channel. If the AP is separate, I can set the channels such that they're not broadcasting on the same frequencies, and thus the signals are not interfering nearly as badly as if they're at the same channel (using AI MESH removes this ability). In theory, it should increase the available bandwidth available to clients as some clients are on one channel and other clients on the other one.

RE the configuration... I saw scripts that will extract the NVRAM configuration details for replay on a different router. I didn't use them when I moved to the AX68U, but I thought seriously about it.

 

[Dedel66]

In AI MESH, the software gives them both the same channel.

There is no problem at all if you choose a good topology. With two different chanels and a bad topolgy you will see your clients "swinging" between two accesspoints.

EDIT: I need a guest network here that covers 3 floors. I achieve this excellently with my small mesh system and a good topology.

As I told you: Just try it out and you will make your own experiences...

 

[TonyK132]

Yes, the switch is managed (and is running VLANs), so that explains why it wouldn't sync up through it.

I run my mesh node thru a managed switch (actually 2), so that works fine. But what you have to do is initially link the mesh node to your main router while it is in close proximity to each other, directly connected to each other via hard wire, and not going thru the switch. Once that link is working, then you move your node to its final location connected thru your managed switches. The hardest part for me was getting the vlans configured correctly in the managed switches. But after that is done, it works fine.

 

[heysoundude]

Okay...

• First, thanks for all the feedback!
• Yes, the switch is managed (and is running VLANs), so that explains why it wouldn't sync up through it.
• Dang... I bought the RT-AX68U on sale (and not a very big one) last summer, then didn't have time to deal with putting it in for months... Thanksgiving, I think. Dang, short lifetime. It's under warranty until Summer 2025, though.
• The RT-AX86S (almost) literally dropped in my lap; I had no plan to get it and thought I'd put it to use since it was here. If I can backup the configuration and swap them, I might do that. I don't really want to retype node names and sticky DHCP assignments. Hm... I hope it's power requirements aren't any greater; it shouldn't be.
• Yes, I have Ethernet, because I think Wireless backhaul is a crime against nature; Extenders should never have been invented. The cable was run (long story), but unterminated, so I terminated it, built a shelf in the HVAC closet where the AP is sitting this weekend and fired it up.
• Using the same channel means there will be interference at the overlap. But it means fewer worries about picking clear channels for each device and the width of such channels and especially if the dang thing needs a channel for backhaul (which I don't).
• I have very little in the way of guest traffic; I think I can live without it on the AP. If that changes, I'll hunt for the updated script then.
• Something I just thought of: clients can be locked to one or the other node in AI MESH; is there some way of implementing that as a router and an Access Point with the same SSID?

I got a little spoiled with the slick user interface and set up of Ubiquiti APs with a UDMP that someone else bought--then realized they had no idea what they were doing and called me in to set it up. It uses different channels, etc. like I would expect a system to. (That system replaced the AX86S and some older Aruba AC APs). If someone handed me a $1000 gift card to spend on my home network, I'd have to consider getting one for here, though it seems a bit glitchy in some departments.

To your fourth bullet point - swapping config files: Don't. Yes it's a bit of a pain to make note of settings/configs and then re-input them, but it's less of a pain than doing factory resets to start from scratch.
To your last point - why? letting the client switch to the best WAP is the benefit of this way of doing things. But if you REALLY want it to stick in one place, wire it.

 

[JefferMC]

There is no problem at all if you choose a good topology. With two different chanels and a bad topolgy you will see your clients "swinging" between two accesspoints.

My topology is pretty easy. Router and AP on fairly opposite ends of the building and on different floors. They're about 50 feet apart. Which means that their field overlaps some. You want it to overlap a little because you don't want dead areas.

I think I'm going to let it sit for a few weeks and see what problems I have. I'm thinking where I am is better than where I was, but not as good as it could be... but probably good enough.

 

[tiomiguel]

I hace a AX82U as main router and two AX55 in AP mode, because as AIMESH nodes, sometimes when restarting they get los from MESH and I have to reset... AND THE USE THE SAME CHANNEL. In AP mode I assign channels 1,6,11 and work well. I can acces totha AP for monitoring. I think they work better in AP mode than in AI MESH