AiMesh - 5ghz-2 is now dedicated backhaul after recent firmware? (wired backhaul)

[OzarkEdge]

Thanks @OzarkEdge

I have about 90 devices on my network. Was a pain to get them all identified. Before I reset everything, what's the easiest way to preserve all my custom names? Shut off router 2 and 3, let everything migrate to primary router and then do a backup? I've never actually used the backup/restore so does it preserve all the names?

Thanks

Given your prior firmware experiments, the presumption is that you need to reset your routers after installing the desired firmware and then reconfigure from scratch to establish a clean slate. If you intend to do this, you should not restore an old configuration.

As for naming devices within the router GUI, the tools available are primitive, so it is advisable to limit this housekeeping to as few devices as is deemed necessary, if any. Instead, consider keeping your own device/MAC address cross-reference.

OE

 

[adambean]

Thanks again @OzarkEdge

I factory reset everything after updating to latest firmware. So far .. Everything is very stable.

I think I'd still like to explore options with UniFi once AX is finalized but for now, fingers crossed.

I still don't understand why Asus took away the third band when you have an ethernet backhaul, but they are clearly smarter than me!

Thanks for the support!

 

[corgi]

I am hoping they get that new firmware out for those who have ethernet backhaul on all their meshed nodes! Seems like a mistake to try and streamline the settings for users

 

[Gambinesh]

Do we have a way to track this issue with Asus? Or has Merlin provided a response on if he plans to look into it? Its lame that the 5G band is being wasted when I am using Ethernet backhaul. I know I'm not the only one. Just looking for a consolidated way to track progress on it.

 

[adambean]

Do we have a way to track this issue with Asus? Or has Merlin provided a response on if he plans to look into it? Its lame that the 5G band is being wasted when I am using Ethernet backhaul. I know I'm not the only one. Just looking for a consolidated way to track progress on it.

Here here!

 

[nitzs]

Has there been any update from Asus on the issue? Does anyone know if/when we would expect a fix?

Also, any of the senior techies here aware - does the lost 5.2GHz issue exist when all components (router + nodes) are tri-band? Or, is it only relevant when one or the other is dual band?

For context, my current set up is 1 AC5300 (main), and 2 AC68u (nodes). Each node is connected back to the AC5300 via ethernet, set to preferred connection as ‘Wired’ and my 5.2GHz channel remains blocked for dedicated wireless backhaul.

I am considering replacing the AC68u nodes with either AC3200 or AX6100 to regain my 5.2GHz channel. That said, I don’t want to go through the hassle if the issue will persist, or if Asus is planning to come with an updated firmware that will give us back the 5.2GHz channel in an ethernet backhaul set up.

TIA for any feedback.

 

[drabisan]

The second radio is "blocked" no matter if nodes are 2 or 3 band. So by replacing the node you won't get anything back.
Asus did promised but didn't commit the 2nd radio will be back. Last I learned it was in discussion or 386 release - but this is really old info and I have no clue if they are currently writing the code for it.

 

[DarnellG]

I've been reading up on this issue of losing the 5Ghz-2 channel in mesh configuration for the backhaul even when wiring it. I just want to see if I have this clear. Does this disabling of the 2nd 5ghz band in MESH mode only pertain to tri band routers like the RT-AC5300 or does it disable the only 5Ghz band on the dual band AX88U too?

I presently have a dual band RT-AX88U as my main router running in default router mode but I want to increase my 5Ghz wireless coverage to my garage where I presently get a -65DB to -70db signal strength on the 2.4Ghz band. I want to use a wired backhaul connection.

I can live without the 2nd channel of the AC5300 but I don't want to lose or slow down the only 5Ghz band of the AX88U. What's the best mesh configuration using those 2 routers? Is it better to use the AX88u as the master and the AC5300 as a node? In Mesh mode can I still use manual channel selection to set the 5Ghz channel or must it be in auto? I have been running into issues using the upper channels in the 5Ghz spectrum so I want it to stay on the lower channels.

 

[OzarkEdge]

I've been reading up on this issue of losing the 5Ghz-2 channel in mesh configuration for the backhaul even when wiring it. I just want to see if I have this clear. Does this disabling of the 2nd 5ghz band in MESH mode only pertain to tri band routers like the RT-AC5300 or does it disable the only 5Ghz band on the dual band AX88U too?

I presently have a dual band RT-AX88U as my main router running in default router mode but I want to increase my 5Ghz wireless coverage to my garage where I presently get a -65DB to -70db signal strength on the 2.4Ghz band. I want to use a wired backhaul connection.

I can live without the 2nd channel of the AC5300 but I don't want to lose or slow down the only 5Ghz band of the AX88U. What's the best mesh configuration using those 2 routers? Is it better to use the AX88u as the master and the AC5300 as a node? In Mesh mode can I still use manual channel selection to set the 5Ghz channel or must it be in auto? I have been running into issues using the upper channels in the 5Ghz spectrum so I want it to stay on the lower channels.

AiMesh only steals the 2nd 5.0 GHz band on tri-band routers... dual-band routers are only affected in that their 5.0 GHz band is shared with wireless clients and backhaul(s).

Assuming the newer AX88U router has the better hardware specs, make it the house router/root node and add the AC5300 as the wired garage remote node. You could deploy the 5300 with a wireless backhaul first, to know how it will perform should it ever self-heal from the loss of its wired backhaul... and maybe you'll never bother to wire it.

Yes, you should configure separate SSIDs and fixed channels for more stable/predictable WiFi.

My install notes might save you some trouble. You'll have to adjust for any AX-specific requirements, although maybe your AiMesh configuration should favor its lowest common denominator AC router... I don't know, I haven't seen an AX setup yet.

OE

 

[DarnellG]

Thx for the quick response. I've been reading your guide since you referred it to me in another post and have been reading the links therein. Very useful guide and have put in in my saved links folder.

Just a quick followup question if I may. If I understood correctly the AX88u uses part of its 5Ghz to drive the backhaul data but when in wired backhaul config is the 5Ghz band on the AX88u liberated for clients only?

 

[OzarkEdge]

Thx for the quick response. I've been reading your guide since you referred it to me in another post and have been reading the links therein. Very useful guide and have put in in my saved links folder.

Just a quick followup question if I may. If I understood correctly the AX88u uses part of its 5Ghz to drive the backhaul data but when in wired backhaul config is the 5Ghz band on the AX88u liberated for clients only?

Yes. If the AX88U router is using wired Ethernet for the node backhaul, then its/all WiFi is fully available for client traffic. To ensure this, set the node connection priority to wired/Ethernet.

FYI, AiMesh decides which band makes the best wireless backhaul. It should use the 5.0 GHz band for best throughput, but it could use the 2.4 GHz band, if it has better throughput for some reason. I've only seen this once when my 5.0 GHz band dropped for some odd firmware-related reason.

Unlike client-to-AP/node wireless connections, it seems to me that node-to-node wireless connections are the most capable because of the generally matching router WiFi elements are communicating optimally. So, expect the most from a wireless backhaul, perhaps better than your own signal measurements might predict.

OE

 

[DarnellG]

Ok so I tried using AIMesh for the first time using OzarkEdge's guide. I installed the latest Merlin firmware in my AX88u and installed the latest ASUS stock firmware in the AC5300. I set the AX88u as the main router and manually set the channel of the 2.4G and 5G wireless channels.

Is there a way to manually set the 5Ghz-2 wireless on the AC5300 running in AIMesh node mode, because for some reason in my area I am not able to use the upper channels of the 5Ghz band. Signal is very weak and the backhaul changes to the 2.4Ghz band even though both the main router and the node router are physically side by side. I am not sure why I can't use the upper 5Ghz band channels here in my house, I was testing the routers last week individually in normal router mode and both routers for some reason can't use the upper 5Ghz channels. Anytime I do the clients connections grind to a stop and signal strength is crap. The lower channels on the 5G band work fine. Both routers exhibit this same issue so its got to be something common to both like some high noise causing interference.

 

[OzarkEdge]

Ok so I tried using AIMesh for the first time using OzarkEdge's guide. I installed the latest Merlin firmware in my AX88u and installed the latest ASUS stock firmware in the AC5300. I set the AX88u as the main router and manually set the channel of the 2.4G and 5G wireless channels.

Is there a way to manually set the 5Ghz-2 wireless on the AC5300 running in AIMesh node mode, because for some reason in my area I am not able to use the upper channels of the 5Ghz band. Signal is very weak and the backhaul changes to the 2.4Ghz band even though both the main router and the node router are physically side by side. I am not sure why I can't use the upper 5Ghz band channels here in my house, I was testing the routers last week individually in normal router mode and both routers for some reason can't use the upper 5Ghz channels. Anytime I do the clients connections grind to a stop and signal strength is crap. The lower channels on the 5G band work fine. Both routers exhibit this same issue so its got to be something common to both like some high noise causing interference.

I'm not familiar with tri-band routers, but from what is said around here, the 2nd 5.o GHz band is dedicated to the AiMesh backhaul... even if the remote node is only dual-band... even if the backhaul is wired.

Perhaps other users here can expand on this.

OE

 

[Smokindog]

Since you've got wired backhaul I suggest you ditch AiMesh and switch to AP mode. Easier to set up (IMO), you've got more control for overlapping frequency use, and it's stable.

I tried AiMesh with wired backhaul across 3+ routers and it was a nightmare of issues, including "phantom wireless backhaul". That was mid last year.

Hard reset all your routers, reinstall as APs with one main router and stop chasing AiMesh ghosts!

My two cents, worth what you paid for it!

PS - In my opinion, separate SSIDs is a bad practice. If you temporarily need to specifically test something, temporarily add a guest SSID for the band you wish to test. Again, it's worth the amount paid

 

[OzarkEdge]

In my opinion, separate SSIDs is a bad practice.

What's bad about it?

OE

 

[Smokindog]

What's bad about it?

OE

Each device needs to be set for all the SSIDs and passcodes. It also doesn't allow a device to "properly roam" and it's more administrative overhead. The list goes on but those are some to chew on. Look at most any public/commercial/corporate deployment and the only reason typically used for multiple SSIDs is functional separation, not connection band and/or access point (unless of course an AP/band is reserved for a specific function).

Again, worth the price of admission.

 

[OzarkEdge]

Each device needs to be set for all the SSIDs and passcodes. It also doesn't allow a device to "properly roam" and it's more administrative overhead. The list goes on but those are some to chew on. Look at most any public/commercial/corporate deployment and the only reason typically used for multiple SSIDs is functional separation, not connection band and/or access point (unless of course an AP/band is reserved for a specific function).

Again, worth the price of admission.

I have not noticed those issues when using separate SSIDs; I generally don't connect a device to more than one SSID.

OE

 

[Smokindog]

I have not noticed those issues when using separate SSIDs; I generally don't connect a device to more than one SSID.

OE

Then in your case if some temporary interference crops up or I disable the band you've chosen you're SOL. You also now become the "load balancer" based on a fixed device configuration instead of network status and intelligence.

Places the "best network choice" on the user and not the device, takes away from the device's ability to do dynamic interference mitigation by switching bands, ... The list is long and again I'll point you to how the professionals typically deploy wireless.

This advice is worth what you paid!

 

[OzarkEdge]

Then in your case if some temporary interference crops up or I disable the band you've chosen you're SOL. You also now become the "load balancer" based on a fixed device configuration instead of network status and intelligence.

Places the "best network choice" on the user and not the device, takes away from the device's ability to do dynamic interference mitigation by switching bands, ... The list is long and again I'll point you to how the professionals typically deploy wireless.

This advice is worth what you paid!

I suppose. Doesn't seem to be such a problem here. The typical network disruption is ISP- or equipment-related... not a specific WiFi band. And I've got about 10 or so wireless clients, most sitting idle, so not much load balancing required.

A problem I had with using identical SSIDs is when Asus firmware started Auto channel hopping for no reason... this disrupted the wireless client user experience. To set fixed channels, I had to disable Smart Connect node band steering. If I did set identical SSIDs, I assume clients may then not connect to the best band/signal... I never tried this since setting and using a single connection to just one band/SSID is all I've need.

OE

 

[Smokindog]

I suppose. Doesn't seem to be such a problem here. The typical network disruption is ISP- or equipment-related... not a specific WiFi band. And I've got about 10 or so wireless clients, most sitting idle, so not much load balancing required.

A problem I had with using identical SSIDs is when Asus firmware started Auto channel hopping for no reason... this disrupted the wireless client user experience. To set fixed channels, I had to disable Smart Connect node band steering. If I did set identical SSIDs, I assume clients may then not connect to the best band/signal... I never tried this since setting and using a single connection to just one band/SSID is all I've need.

OE

The client is primarily the decision maker in the band selection, not the AP (unless it just denies the connection). The AP can however influence the client.

You don't need to justify your choices to me. That's what makes this Country great. I'd just never do it unless it was temporary for debugging and I'd never recommend it.