AiMesh HW combination?

[shaky]

Hi!

I am about to replace my old Netgear router + mesh extender, starting to get more and more unreliable. And after doing some reading I will probably end up buying Asus.

I am not any good at all on networking, but read some postes on this forum to have a better understanding.

So I most likley need 2 devices, mesh or AiMesh. So I am looking at XT8 or a combination of other AX routers.

So if i go with ax routers what combination would be "good enough"? Its a family of 4. IPTV, computers, phones etc. We also game over Wifi at the moment but might pull some cable when switching system if the experience ove wifi isnt good enough.

I am thinking of a RT-AX86U as main router, do I need a second RT-AX86U router for it to work the best? It becomes pretty expensive.. Or what combination below should work good?

What about:
RT-AX86U + RT-AX92U
RT-AX86U + RT-AX68U
RT-AX86U + TUF Gaming AX5400

Maybe:
RT-AX68U + RT-AX68U
RT-AX92U + RT-AX92U

Best Regards,
shaky

 

[L&LD]

Welcome to the forums @shaky.

How big is your home? What ISP connection and speeds do you have? What is the specific hardware you're upgrading from?

You may be pleasantly surprised by the new AX class routers, and you may only need one in your space.

If your home is less than ~2K SqFt, is built using framing/drywall, and if your ISP may be offering 1Gbps+ speeds in the medium future (if you don't already have them), then the routers you want to consider today are listed below.

The RT-AX68U will be a significant step up from old AC-class hardware (even the venerable RT-AC86U was bowled over by this model). But it may not be the best model for higher ISP speeds (above ~800Gbps).

Report - 2x RT-AX68U upgrade over 2x RT-AC86U in wireless backhaul mode

The RT-AX86U has been a solid performer for many these past two years, but today it is not the most balanced (hardware) model available. Do not confuse this model with the inferior (as the main router) RT-AX86s.

The best bang-for-the-buck and most balanced Asus router you can buy today are the GT-AX6000. A single unit works extremely well for even very large homes.

In my testing (admittedly a few years ago now), anything other than another RT-AX86U would degrade the network performance, so none of your examples would be anything I would suggest trying.

The GT-AX6000 has ~20% faster throughput than the RT-AX86U, which is about 20% faster than the RT-AX68U, and the RT-AX68U has about double the throughput of the old king, the RT-AC86U.

Note you can possibly use your old router as a Media Bridge to any far-away LAN-capable devices too.

Looking forward to your answers about your home/ISP/setup.

Hope this helps.

 

[shaky]

Thanks for the good answer @L&LD!

My home is 1600SqFt. But I also have a garage and another building at my garden that I want to have coveragein. So I am guessing it would be around 2700SqFt that needs coverage.
The main router will be placed in one far end of the house, away from the garage.

I have fiber and at the moment 250/250, but will order 500/500 the comming days.

My current router is a Netgear R7800, and the extender is a Netgear EX8000.

Just to be clear, you mean that the RT-86s is not as good as the U modell right?

The GT-AX6000 is about $60 more expencive than RT-AX86U. Might be too much money if I need two devices. But if it has more coverage and i only need one router then it could be fine..
Would it be any idea to buy one GT-AX6000 + one RT-AX86U, or would the 86U bottleneck the GT-AX6000?

 

[Tech9]

I am thinking of a RT-AX86U as main router, do I need a second RT-AX86U router for it to work the best?

You can do AX86U main + AX86S node. Both run the same firmware (updated at the same time) and have the same radios (a chance for better roaming). Don't do any of the other combinations. AX68U is unpopular with connectivity issues history. AX92U is old 3-radio model with single AX radio and history of firmware issues. TUF-AX5400 is a "gaming" version of entry-level AX58U. TX8 is underpowered and overpriced, history of firmware stability issues.

I am not any good at all on networking

Eero Pro 6 - perhaps the better option for you. Not cheap, but easy to manage and better "mesh" than Asus' AiMesh. Set and forget.

 

[Smokey613]

Right now, you can get a pair of eero pro 6 for $259 from Amazon. I just purchased these and they work great in bridge mode. The caveat now is, their security package went up in price. In my opinion, it’s not worth the money if you run them in normal router mode, but it is not needed in bridge mode.

I like the Asus routers running RMerlin’s firmware but the wifi mesh on eero is far superior IMHO. My modest needs do not require the AX86U and the “lowly” AX86S is all I need and it too is currently on sale at Amazon for $179.99

Check my signature for my setup which is working very well for me. @Tech9 will tell you I have tried a lot of combinations for my network.

 

[Tech9]

All modern browsers use form of Safe Browsing. On Asus routers AiProtection picks up mostly false positives with Safe Browsing enabled browsers.

 

[L&LD]

Thanks for the good answer @L&LD!

My home is 1600SqFt. But I also have a garage and another building at my garden that I want to have coveragein. So I am guessing it would be around 2700SqFt that needs coverage.
The main router will be placed in one far end of the house, away from the garage.

I have fiber and at the moment 250/250, but will order 500/500 the comming days.

My current router is a Netgear R7800, and the extender is a Netgear EX8000.

Just to be clear, you mean that the RT-86s is not as good as the U modell right?

The GT-AX6000 is about $60 more expencive than RT-AX86U. Might be too much money if I need two devices. But if it has more coverage and i only need one router then it could be fine..
Would it be any idea to buy one GT-AX6000 + one RT-AX86U, or would the 86U bottleneck the GT-AX6000?

For only $60 more, I would be only considering the GT-AX6000. If you're able to locate your router more central to the areas you want to be covered (i.e. not central to only your home living space), it should be all you need. Testing is required in either case (and testing of the best control channels too).

You may still need to use the repeater in the garage if you can't move the main router. And that may save you some money for now.

Right now, I am using that exact combination, and no, no bottleneck issues. An RT-AX86U as the main router and a GT-AX6000 as an AiMesh node. Working flawlessly in my environment (even with RMerlin 388.1 Beta 3 on both).

 

[Tech9]

@Tech9 will tell you I have tried a lot of combinations for my network.

You must have hacked my "Smokey613 signature update notification system" because I didn't get a notification when you changed from 2x Netgear WAX206 to 2x Eero Pro 6. This scheduled hardware change happened some time last week. What's the plan for the next week?

 

[Smokey613]

I put the ER605 back into the mix. The @Ranger802004 script works good but I can’t seem to get it configured to where I am fully confident in it’s operation. I am sure this is due to my settings not being optimal or something in my setup.

The ER605 failover works flawlessly. The only downside is the extra NAT step but so far, that has not caused any issues.

The ER605 connects directly to my fiber ONT of my primary ISP and to my bridged cable modem of my backup ISP.
I then place my RT-AX86S in a DMZ on the ER605 so I can control my port forwards and VPN server/client connections within the Asus.

The only reason I went from the older eero pro to the eero pro 6 units was they were put on sale. They also seem to have slightly greater range than the eero pro.

 

[shaky]

I am located in Sweden and i cannot find any store selling eero Pro 6 here.

This black friday week the prices are so far:
RT-AX86S: $150
RT-AX86U: $208
GT-AX6000: $265
GT-AX11000: $330

 

[shaky]

TP-Link Deco X50 x 3: $245.
Just to make it easy?

 

[Tech9]

This black friday week the prices are so far:
RT-AX86S: $150
RT-AX86U: $208

If you really want Asus - get 2x RT-AX86U. The price per unit is good and not that much money for Sweden. Run stock Asuswrt firmware and AiMesh. Wired backhaul is better, wireless is acceptable. Not the best "mesh" around, but good enough with identical routers. The firmware has good features.

 

[Tech9]

The only downside is the extra NAT step but so far, that has not caused any issues.

Double NAT is not a problem. Make sure you use fast DDNS update service and IP change detection. If you lose one ISP your open to Internet services (OpenVPN Server, for example) will be inaccessible before DDNS records update with the other ISP public IP address. No-IP is good for dual ISP.

 

[Smokey613]

Double NAT is not a problem. Make sure you use fast DDNS update service and IP change detection. If you lose one ISP your open to Internet services (OpenVPN Server, for example) will be inaccessible before DDNS records update with the other ISP public IP address. No-IP is good for dual ISP.

I do use No-IP. I have it setup on the ax86u. So far, I am very satisfied with the service.

 

[shaky]

Hi!

So I bought a few routers:
One 86U
One GT-AX6000
Two 86S

At the moment they are sett up in two AiMesh networks:

A86U (main) + GT-AX6000
86S +86S

And my old setup, Netgear R7800 + EX8000.



I dont know what the best way is to measure speed so I am just looking at, speedtest windows app, up and down speeds.

PC:
Testing 5GHz on PC (wifi 5)
Connected to node
Measure 3 times on each

Results:

A86U (main) + GT-AX6000 = 176-177Mbps up | 118-148Mbps down

86S + 86S = 150-165Mbps up | 150-159Mbps down

Netgear R7800 + EX8000 = 259-270Mbps up | 197-210Mbps down

On ping test i see a few package loss with the old set up which i dont see with the others. But is is low, 1% or less. So dont think it make any harm?


Phone test
Testing 5GHz on phone (wifi 5 on old HW and wifi 6 on new HW)

I see that the new routers are a bit faster but not by much. And to be honest i dont see that much of a difference in wifi range either when testing on my phone.

So with wifi 5 devices the old set up is quite a bit faster. I am a bit confused..

 

[L&LD]

Are all these routers powered up together? The size of your home in SqFt indicates a single router should be able to cover the entire area if properly located.

Have you tried using a single router as the main with all the others off to compare network performance? Only then add another AiMesh node, moving it around to test for optimum speed, latency, and stability.

If all you're using are phones with apps to test with. Don't. Use a PC that is plugged into AC power with Performance mode enabled. A phone is tuned for battery life, not the highest performance.

Don't have any other routers than the ones you're testing powered up. There is such a thing as too much WiFi in too small a space.

Also, note that you want to test the Control Channels the specific router you're testing is the best for your router/environment and client devices.

If you've been toggling features on/off on these routers, I suggest you do a full reset and do not toggle options needlessly (some don't 'untoggled', even if they indicate they have).

[Wireless] ASUS router Hard Factory Reset | Official Support | ASUS Global

Fully Reset / Best Practice Setup / More



Look through the relevant links below for more information on Control Channels, testing, node placement, and more.

Almost all L&LD Links

About L&LD

 

[shaky]

Hi,

Yes I have the routers on at the same time, too lazy
But I am the only one in my area with 5ghz network.
I see that the new routers in mesh use the same band, but the old setup uses two different bands. Is that better?

Is this too crowded?

It is possible that one router could cover the entire house but that means that I have to drag cable, again too lazy

What is the "Control Channels"?

I am using a stationary PC + phone för test.

 

[shaky]

Measured speed on 86S AiMesh setup with all routers on then turned off all routers except the two 86S. Both measurments on PC was 135-145Mbps. No difference.

 

[L&LD]

Did you at least skim the links I provided above?

Control Channel Setup 2021

Reset Mini Guide + Control Channel Setup Details

Control Channel Setup (more)

 

[shaky]

Hi,

I looked through the links. And did some more testing. Tested only one system at the time.

Test on PC on only main router. Maybe 9m away:

86U
Down: Up:
52Mbps 13Mbps
75 11
78 17

86S
Down: Up:
79Mbps 95Mbps
75 91
85 57

Netgear R7800
Down: Up:
103Mbps 27Mbps
93 26



Then tested 86S AiMesh on different bands

Band 36

Down: Up: Ping:
203 206 24
202 210 23
197 214 23
163 208 24
192 214 24

Band 40
205 220 24
189 220 24
185 220 23

Band 44
207 220 24
166 211 23
193 189 23

Band 48
177 217 24
179 213 24
180 215 24

So not much difference, 36 and 40 slightly better than 44 and 48.


Now old netgear mesh and 86S mesh is on at the same time again and testing:

86S - Channel 36
Down: Up: Ping:
166 180 23
176 172 24
178 176 23

Netgear/old system - Channel 44 +100 (as seen in above screenshot, is this even a mesh network?? )
Down: Up: Ping:
232 260 25
238 263 24
239 263 24

So there is quite a bit of speed difference..

The reason i want to upgrade is because some of the devices connected to my netgear node loose connection to internet sometimes.. and a reboot on the node is needed. But I dont want to sacrifice too much speed...