Amazon Sidewalk - What do you think?

[bones5050]

Not sure if anyone saw this, but I have some real concerns with Amazon implementing this type of technology and the potential security risks associated. Thoughts?


A new feature is launching on your Echo device: Amazon Sidewalk.

Amazon Sidewalk is a shared network that helps devices work better. For example, if your device loses its wifi connection, Sidewalk can simplify reconnecting to your router and help set up new Echo devices. Sidewalk can also extend the coverage for Sidewalk-enabled devices, such as Ring smart lights and pet and object trackers, so they can stay connected and continue to work over longer distances.

When enabled, Sidewalk uses a small portion of your Internet bandwidth to provide these services to you and your neighbors. This setting will apply to all of your supported Echo and Ring devices that are linked to your Amazon account.

Learn more about Amazon Sidewalk.

Sidewalk is coming to your Echo device later this year, but you can disable this feature at any time from the Amazon Alexa app.

 

[Smokey613]

I just read the email. I love how they always make stuff like this an opt-out instead of opt-in. If it truly only uses the minuscule amount of bandwidth they claim, then the only thing it can really be used for is location tracking and eavesdropping. They were probably doing it already but decided they had better market it as something beneficial before an insider revealed the truth. Maybe it’s time to make my home dumb again and divest myself of these devices.

 

[Smokey613]

It looks like we were behind the curve on this as CNET talked about this back in October.

Amazon Sidewalk will create entire smart neighborhoods. Here's what you should know

Now live on Echo speakers, Ring products, Tile trackers and more, Amazon's low-bandwidth Internet of Things network lets your smart home stretch beyond Wi-Fi range.

www.cnet.com

 

[OzarkEdge]

Not sure if anyone saw this, but I have some real concerns with Amazon implementing this type of technology and the potential security risks associated. Thoughts?


A new feature is launching on your Echo device: Amazon Sidewalk.

Amazon Sidewalk is a shared network that helps devices work better. For example, if your device loses its wifi connection, Sidewalk can simplify reconnecting to your router and help set up new Echo devices. Sidewalk can also extend the coverage for Sidewalk-enabled devices, such as Ring smart lights and pet and object trackers, so they can stay connected and continue to work over longer distances.

When enabled, Sidewalk uses a small portion of your Internet bandwidth to provide these services to you and your neighbors. This setting will apply to all of your supported Echo and Ring devices that are linked to your Amazon account.

Learn more about Amazon Sidewalk.

Sidewalk is coming to your Echo device later this year, but you can disable this feature at any time from the Amazon Alexa app.

Amazon Sidewalk... crowd-sourced neighborhood networking over your home network and Bluetooth Low Energy (near) and 900 MHz (far) Amazon Sidewalk Gateway IoT devices and Amazon and third party cloud servers!

What do I think? Hell no! And you're an idiot if you buy an Eero network and/or Amazon IoT devices.

OE

 

[thiggins]

Sounds like they are trying to copy Comcast.
For those of you who have Xfinity, can you opt out of sharing your WiFi with any in-range Comcast subscriber?

 

[OzarkEdge]

Sounds like they are trying to copy Comcast.
For those of you who have Xfinity, can you opt out of sharing your WiFi with any in-range Comcast subscriber?

With BLE and 900 MHz, it sounds like they are trying to fix home WiFi to benefit/make feasible their IoT sales... and then take it to a whole nother level.

OE

 

[Clark Griswald]

Sounds like they are trying to copy Comcast.
For those of you who have Xfinity, can you opt out of sharing your WiFi with any in-range Comcast subscriber?

Yes, but they make doing so a challenge. If you are able to log into your account, go into settings, and turn off WiFi Hot Spot sharing.
The challenge occurs when they randomly reset your modem, and the wifi hot spot is reactivated.

 

[ATLga]

White paper link

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/G/01/sidewalk/privacy_security_whitepaper_final.pdf

 

[agilani]

I will be blocking this as soon as we reverse engineer its connectivity. May have to stop using amazon all together as a result. This is not the same thing as internet provider using their bandwidth to provide local hotspots. The bandwidth up to your home is theirs to begin with and you didn't think that "free modem and router" was really free did you. This is amazon deciding to use your internet bandwidth and allow you and your neighbors and anyone driving by to use their sidewalk enabled devices over the bandwidth you paid for their own commercial benefit.

STRONG PASS

 

[agilani]

Sounds like they are trying to copy Comcast.
For those of you who have Xfinity, can you opt out of sharing your WiFi with any in-range Comcast subscriber?

yes, you end up using our own modem and router

 

[cooloutac]

I just read the email. I love how they always make stuff like this an opt-out instead of opt-in. If it truly only uses the minuscule amount of bandwidth they claim, then the only thing it can really be used for is location tracking and eavesdropping. They were probably doing it already but decided they had better market it as something beneficial before an insider revealed the truth. Maybe it’s time to make my home dumb again and divest myself of these devices.

exactly my thoughts lmao. You are reading my mind. I just shut mine off today. (who knows if it really goes off) lol...

Supposedly its for things like smart locks, or smart keys and dog trackers when you lose them. Doesn't seem like something that would benefit me in any way.

 

[cooloutac]

I will be blocking this as soon as we reverse engineer its connectivity. May have to stop using amazon all together as a result. This is not the same thing as internet provider using their bandwidth to provide local hotspots. The bandwidth up to your home is theirs to begin with and you didn't think that "free modem and router" was really free did you. This is amazon deciding to use your internet bandwidth and allow you and your neighbors and anyone driving by to use their sidewalk enabled devices over the bandwidth you paid for their own commercial benefit.

STRONG PASS

I think its even worse then amazon man. That's your router you're talking about which is the most sensitive device on your network, and its alot more bandwidth being used. You also pay for the bandwidth.

 

[sfx2000]

I've been working on that with a LORA/BLE gateway over Ethernet/WiFi. Bit more radios than I would like to have in a device, but manageable - e.g. have to put in a Nordic BLE radio, along with a Semtech LORA device - it's a bridge device, so we're sorting MATTER/HomeKit and all the like

@TheLostSwede - I presume you'll appreciate the challenges

Amazon/Sidewalk anonymizes the local area network info - Amazon really does not care about any one user's device, and they really don't know based on info sent into Sidewalk.

Sidewalk is interesting in that once you're done all the testing they require, they let you in, and access there is free to the entire WAN for services.

For Testing - the Amazon Echo 4 has all the radios needed for a gateway into Sidewalk/Lora...

 

[Gar]

Echo 5 too, I assume? 5 is the latest model, but 2022 release. Much cheaper than a 4 right now.

Edit: I found the list of devices

 

[sfx2000]

Echo 5 too, I assume? 5 is the latest model, but 2022 release. Much cheaper than a 4 right now.

Edit: I found the list of devices

The Echo 4th Gen is what they reference in the dev guides, and many of the device dev kits reference the same device.

Sidewalk Gateways

Amazon Sidewalk Documentation and Developer Guide

docs.sidewalk.amazon

Hard to say where Echo 5th Gen lands on that list...

 

[sfx2000]

The test unit I have sends a ping across the sidewalk network every 10 seconds - the test unit is a LORA device, so the BW is the local GW...

The test unit is obviously not the norm - most end-points are idle....

Downtime is when the test unit was offline, so the rest is background noise - e.g. link maint, other units checking in, whatever...

 

[sfx2000]

Sounds like they are trying to copy Comcast.
For those of you who have Xfinity, can you opt out of sharing your WiFi with any in-range Comcast subscriber?

this is not like Comcast and their shared wiFi thing...

 

[sfx2000]

I know some folks might have concerns about Sidewalk and applications.

Know this - if I'm working on this, security is absolutely in the front of my mind here...