Amplifi Alien

[frankhere]

Thanks. Up to recently I was looking at the Asus zenwifi ax (or ax6600). It’s taking its time to come out though!

Looks interesting... https://www.asus.com/Mesh-WiFi-System/ZenWiFi-Products/
Now I have to research it (eeek!)

 

[devblue]

Looks interesting... https://www.asus.com/Mesh-WiFi-System/ZenWiFi-Products/
Now I have to research it (eeek!)

This thing wins on the Asus leg. There will be source and the possibility of small firmware tweaks. Looks legit. I love the oled on the Alien but... i'll take functionality inside over that.

 

[psychopomp1]

Due to a shortage of Alien units everywhere (incl. Amplifi online store), this has pushed the prices up massively. These are being sold for more than $600 on ebay!! Madness to spend that much on a router with a RRP of $379. I'm sure its a good router, but is it a $600 router?...not a chance.

 

[Kyne]

Due to a shortage of Alien units everywhere (incl. Amplifi online store), this has pushed the prices up massively. These are being sold for more than $600 on ebay!! Madness to spend that much on a router with a RRP of $379. I'm sure its a good router, but is it a $600 router?...not a chance.

Yeah, it's a bit odd that this thing is unavailable everywhere, literally, and now has been for a while (the Amplify store still sells the 'mesh pack' only).... hmm

 

[ikonomov]

Another Alien router user here. I just received mine today. I have been checking the AmpliFi website for about three weeks now and although it is currently Out of Stock, last week while checking it did show up In Stock and I was able to order it. The link above goes straight to the order page. Below are some of my first impressions.

External design: I recently decided to change my old Linksys E4200 router and bought ASUS RT-AX88U. Compared to the E4200 (which already takes a lot of space since it can only be positioned horizontally) the RT-AX88U takes even more space, roughly about twice the horizontal area. Once mounted, the four antennas don't really help the situation, making this router quite the ugly sight and at the same time difficult to hide because of the large footprint. There is no reason why they couldn't provide mounting holes which would have made it very easy to wall-mount it somewhere out of sight taking very little space. So I decided to follow the recommendation of a friend and check out Ubiquiti's UniFi APs. Unfortunately there are no UniFi Wi-Fi 6 APs at the moment, but AmpliFi Alien looked like a good alternative. It is compact and while the LCD and LED must have been put in place specifically for their aesthetic appeal they seem entirely unnecessary.


Speed: From around 30 feet away (through one drywall wall) with AX200 PCIe card I get around 80MB/s in both directions sharing a file between a computer that connects to the router with a cable (80MHz channel bandwidth). On the RT-AX88U I was getting 90MB/s download and 70MB/s upload, both with 160MHz and 80MHz channel bandwidth.

Features: Compared to the RT-AX88U, the Alien router doesn't have 160MHz channel bandwidth (Ubiquiti says under consideration), USB port and link aggregation. Both routers don't have WPA3 or Multi-Gig ports. In addition, besides a few settings accessed through a web interface, everything else on the router has to be changed via Android or iOS apps. In short, there is no web interface for this router. The app is very simple and easy to use and it does seem to have the features that I might need to use or change in the future, but it lacks in configuration options. Ubiquiti's Teleport is a nice feature for VPN, but it is only available for an Android or iOS device. The logic behind Android and iOS oriented functionality is questionable at best.

Wi-fi Chips: I'll take madhatter01's word that it uses Qualcomm IPQ8078 chipset, but if so I question Ubiquiti's choice for the 4x4 (2.4GHz)/4x4 (AC 5GHz 80MHz channel bandwidth)/4x4 (AX 5GHz 80MHz channel bandwidth) configuration, and more specifically lack of configuration options. Why not give the choice to be able to configure it for 4x4 (2.4GHz)/4x4 (AX 5GHz 160MHz channel bandwidth) or 4x4 (2.4GHz)/8x8 (AX 5GHz 80MHz channel bandwidth).

Edit: Corrected in my next post below.

In any case, I like the design and simplicity, but it must not come at the expense of configuration functionality.

 

[Kyne]

Thanks - and interesting.
the 4x4 (x3) would be the same as the Orbi Wifi 6 setup - which uses the same chipset (that one is confirmed). So in a way, that makes 'sense' (Orbi also does not support 160Mhz).

What's interesting is that reading Amplifi's tech spec it sure 'looks like' there is an 8 stream/8x8 Mu-Mimo, but I guess that's not the case?

"2.4 GHz: 4x4 5 GHz: 4x4 (low-band) + 8x8 (high band)
2.4 GHz: 1150 Mbps, 5 GHz: 1700 Mbps (low band)/ 4800 Mbps (high band)"

Another Alien router user here. I just received mine today. I have been checking the AmpliFi website for about three weeks now and although it is currently Out of Stock, last week while checking it did show up In Stock and I was able to order it. The link above goes straight to the order page. Below are some of my first impressions.

External design: I recently decided to change my old Linksys E4200 router and bought ASUS RT-AX88U. Compared to the E4200 (which already takes a lot of space since it can only be positioned horizontally) the RT-AX88U takes even more space, roughly about twice the horizontal area. Once mounted, the four antennas don't really help the situation, making this router quite the ugly sight and at the same time difficult to hide because of the large footprint. There is no reason why they couldn't provide mounting holes which would have made it very easy to wall-mount it somewhere out of sight taking very little space. So I decided to follow the recommendation of a friend and check out Ubiquiti's UniFi APs. Unfortunately there are no UniFi Wi-Fi 6 APs at the moment, but AmpliFi Alien looked like a good alternative. It is compact and while the LCD and LED must have been put in place specifically for their aesthetic appeal they seem entirely unnecessary.
View attachment 21339

Speed: From around 30 feet away (through one drywall wall) with AX200 PCIe card I get around 80MB in both directions sharing a file between a computer that connects to the router with a cable (80MHz channel bandwidth). On the RT-AX88U I was getting 90MB download and 70MB upload, both with 160MHz and 80MHz channel bandwidth.

Features: Compared to the RT-AX88U, the Alien router doesn't have 160MHz channel bandwidth (Ubiquiti say under consideration), USB port and link aggregation. Both routers don't have WPA3 or Multi-Gig ports. In addition, besides a few settings accessed through a web interface, everything else on the router has to be changed via Android or iOS apps. In short, there is no web interface for this router. The app is very simple and easy to use and it does seem to have the features that I might need to use or change in the future, but it lacks in configuration options. Ubiquiti's Teleport is a nice feature for VPN, but it is only available for an Android or iOS device. The logic behind Android and iOS oriented functionality is questionable at best.

Wi-fi Chips: I'll take madhatter01's word that it uses Qualcomm IPQ8078 chipset, but if so I question Ubiquiti's choice for the 4x4 (2.4GHz)/4x4 (AC 5GHz 80MHz channel bandwidth)/4x4 (AX 5GHz 80MHz channel bandwidth) configuration, and more specifically lack of configuration options. Why not give the choice to be able to configure it for 4x4 (2.4GHz)/4x4 (AX 5GHz 160MHz channel bandwidth) or 4x4 (2.4GHz)/8x8 (AX 5GHz 80MHz channel bandwidth).

In any case, I like the design and simplicity, but it must not come at the expense of configuration functionality.

 

[ikonomov]

2.4 GHz: 4x4 5 GHz: 4x4 (low-band) + 8x8 (high band)
2.4 GHz: 1150 Mbps, 5 GHz: 1700 Mbps (low band)/ 4800 Mbps (high band)

I just found this post. On the block diagram (page 8) in the .pdf link I posted in my previous post for the IPQ8078 chipset you can see that it only offers 4x4+4x4 or 4x4+8x8 depending on how it's configured, not 4x4+4x4+8x8. What's interesting is that if you look at the diagram of the PCB of the router, you can see that they are indicating a second Wi-Fi 5 radio chip only for 5GHz. I guess my previous post must be wrong, and they must have integrated a third band. So 4x4/4x4/8x8 (80 MHz) or 4x4/4x4/4x4 (with enabled 160 Mhz), which makes sense, else dedicating half of the 5GHz streams for AC traffic that can otherwise be used for both AC and AX would be totally illogical.

 

[ikonomov]

Some additional info. The 5GHz 4x4 Wi-Fi 5 radio chip is disabled by default. Enabling it with the same SSID name will create an additional band with 4x4 AC streams, but the router will not be able to direct for example AC clients to the new 5GHz AC band. AC clients will also not be able to prioritize the 4x4 AC streams over the 8x8 AX streams from the Wi-Fi 6 band. This is probably going to need a lot more thorough testing to confirm whether or not this additional band can actually provide additional throughput. If most of the clients connected to the router use Wi-Fi 6, at first sight it seems that the obvious thing to do would be to change the SSID name for either the 5GHz Wi-Fi 5 band or the 5GHz Wi-Fi 6 band and to be able to manually redirect AC or AX clients to their dedicated bands.

 

[AndreiV]

The more I read about this Alien object the more I know I would never waste my money or time on something that is at best a concept model and will be obsolete before it ever gets a final release.

6 GHz Wi-Fi 6/ Wi-Fi 6e will be out and all the current AX devices will be outdated in 2 years.

 

[L&LD]

@AndreiV, along with anything else that was released almost two years ago too.

Nothing to do to change/prevent that. Just the reality of tech 'toys'.

 

[ikonomov]

@AndreiV, along with anything else that was released almost two years ago too.

Nothing to do to change/prevent that. Just the reality of tech 'toys'.

I agree. My old Linksys E4200 needed an upgrade, but I should have really gone for Netgear R7800, currently for $170 on Amazon. There is no real reason to get an AX router at the moment if I can get about the same speed with AC, especially if 6GHz is forthcoming. Had I gone that route I wouldn't have had the need to upgrade to the Ubiquiti Alien, since the Netgear does have mounting holes and I would have saved around $230 including taxes... Anyways, just in case somebody here is confused, there is nothing alien, as in amazing or out of this world in and around this Ubiquiti router. Considering the huge discount for the current AC routers like Netgear R7800, the Ubiquiti Alien is clearly a bad investment.

Edit: On the other hand once 6GHz routers start rolling out, to really take advantage of the extra speed they'll have to have at least link aggregation or multi-gig ports. Also that assumes that 6GHz will actually be able to provide extra throughput at reasonable distances, which is also questionable.

 

[ikonomov]

I did some further testing after I enabled the AC band with the extra 4x4 streams, which is disabled by default. I also gave the Wi-Fi 6 5Ghz band a different SSID name so I can easily switch between the 5GHz Wi-Fi 6 and 5GHz Wi-Fi 5 band. Both operate at 80Mhz channel bandwidth. There are no other active clients connected to the router while testing. Also I let the router choose the Wi-Fi channels automatically, as I was getting pretty good numbers.

In the first test I am transferring a 3GB file between a computer with AX200 adapter and another that connects to the router with a 1Gbit Ethernet. I'm doing multiple downloads and uploads on both bands, to try to minimize fluctuations. The AX200 computer is about 30 feet away from the router.

5GHz 4x4 Wi-Fi 5 band: ~80MB/s both down and up (75-85MB/s)
5GHz 8x8 Wi-Fi 6 band: ~100MB/s both down and up (90-110 MB/s)

In the test I posted previously I was getting worse numbers probably because I had another Wi-Fi device active and connected. The 100MB/s is most likely saturating the 1Gbit Ethernet port, but that's as fast as this router will ever go as I can't connect anything to it with a faster wired connection.

In the second test I'm connecting two computers to the router via AX200 adapters. One is a laptop, the other a desktop. Both are next to each other, around 30 feet away from the router. I've again repeated each test multiple times, transferring the same 3GB file. There is less fluctuation in the speed that I was getting.

Both on the 5GHz 4x4 Wi-Fi 5 band: ~32MB/s both down and up
Both on the 5GHz 8x8 Wi-Fi 6 band: ~18MB/s down, ~21 MB/s up

Very interesting that the 4x4 AC chip allows two devices to connect to it with faster speed than the 8x8 AX.

Desktop Wi-Fi 5, laptop Wi-Fi 6: ~70MB/s down, ~65MB/s up
Desktop Wi-Fi 6, laptop Wi-Fi 5: ~60MB/s both down and up

It seems that if top speed is desired, both 5GHz bands should be utilized to allow two or more devices to share files.

 

[ikonomov]

"Until the corporate guys start to rip-and-replace of all their Gigabit infrastructure, I wouldn't worry about Gigabit Ethernet being too much of a hindrance for most home users."

NAS units with link aggregation on 2x 10Gbit Ethernet ports are becoming pretty standard even if PCIe storage is needed at that point to really take advantage of that speed. Now that Wi-Fi is near the speed of 1Gbit I think it wouldn't hurt offering routers on a 10Gbit platform, and many people might actually be able to utilize it. 10Gbit nic cards or motherboards seem almost accessible nowadays as well. Whenever Wi-Fi 7 arrives, I think it should come in tandem with 10Gbit Ethernet in the consumer market.

"You have to wonder how many times people will upgrade their smartphones in a 2 year timeframe. But Apple doesn't seem to have any trouble getting its customers to suck up the latest shiny toy they trot out."

It is hard to avoid mentioning the Apple phenomenon for those of us that are still stunned in amazement. People wouldn't line up for 3 days in front of a store if they were able to buy happiness. In case somebody is wondering, the ASUS RT-AX88U router that I was comparing the Ubiquiti Alien against went back to Amazon. I do try to be mindful about what and when I buy something, because in a way that's exercising our consumer vote. I did read the latest AX router reviews published here, and I'm ashamed for getting pulled into this madness and spending $400 for a router.

 

[ikonomov]

I just did another test specifically on the 5GHz AX 8x8 band, transferring a file back and forth between two computers connected to the router via two AX200 adapters. This time I disabled the AC 4x4 band on the router just to see if that will have any effect, even if no other device was connected to the router while doing the test on the AX band yesterday. I am still getting similar results.

Yesterday: ~18MB/s down, ~21 MB/s up
Today: ~17MB/s down, ~23 MB/s up

I also did some testing by transferring two files at the same time, one between a Wi-Fi connected desktop and a computer connected via 1Gbit port, and the other file between Wi-Fi connected laptop and the same computer on the 1Gbit port. The sum of the transfer speed that I was getting was about 100MB/s, which is about the average speed I get when doing one one transfer with the 1Gbit port computer. This seems to be what it should be, the 100MB/s being the bottleneck of the 1Gbit port. When one of the Wi-Fi computers is downloading and the other uploading, the sum of the transfer rate is still around 100MB/s, however. Since the 1Gbit Ethernet port should be full duplex, in this case the bottleneck must be coming from somewhere else, not the 1Gbit port. (Edit: The 1Gbit port connected computer has an old HDD in it. This might actually be able to explain this multiple transfer test in particular. I will try to repeat the test hopefully soon on all three computers running PCIe SSD to try to eliminate this variable at least.)

I also thought about changing the Wi-Fi channel, but I don't really see the point, as I'm getting good results in all my tests except when transferring data from one Wi-Fi connected computer to another. If Wi-Fi 6 is supposed to improve traffic efficiency for multiple devices I am wondering why the AX band is performing worse, not better than the AC band on this router in this particular test. Unless I'm doing something wrong I think at this point we can only hope for future development of Wi-Fi 6 and firmware updates, as they will be the only thing that might be able to salvage the situation.

 

[psychopomp1]

I finally managed to get hold of an Amplifi Alien to test it....and hugely disappointed with it:

1) Wireless range is nowhere near my Netgear RAX200

2) Router doesn't support high numbered channels on the 5ghz bands (eg 157)

3) You cannot manually change the channels on the third 5ghz radio ( wifi 5)

So folks, just because its made by Ubiquiti & costs $379+, doesn't mean it will perform well. Stick with a decent Netgear/Asus/Linksys etc router, you'll find it cheaper & with better performance.

 

[NetworkN00b]

I finally managed to get hold of an Amplifi Alien to test it....and hugely disappointed with it:

1) Wireless range is nowhere near my Netgear RAX200

2) Router doesn't support high numbered channels on the 5ghz bands (eg 157)

3) You cannot manually change the channels on the third 5ghz radio ( wifi 5)

So folks, just because its made by Ubiquiti & costs $379+, doesn't mean it will perform well. Stick with a decent Netgear/Asus/Linksys etc router, you'll find it cheaper & with better performance.

Did you return this? If not, what are your long term comments on the Alien? They seem to continuously sell out, but no one (other than right here) has reported anything about the performance of the router. I'm personally running a pair of Asus AX Zenwifi systems, but am not happy with the signal strength ( which is why I have four instead of just two ). I'd love to hear a few more experiences, especially in a difficult wireless environment.

 

[Kyne]

Did you return this? If not, what are your long term comments on the Alien? They seem to continuously sell out, but no one (other than right here) has reported anything about the performance of the router. I'm personally running a pair of Asus AX Zenwifi systems, but am not happy with the signal strength ( which is why I have four instead of just two ). I'd love to hear a few more experiences, especially in a difficult wireless environment.

For what it's worth, I bought 3 of them (Alien Routers, not mesh points) and am quite happy with them.
In my case, I moved from an apartment, using RAX120 (which was great) to a 3 story house - with wired ethernet. For a wired-backhaul mesh I liked the Alien better than the new Orbi 6 and went for it (even though of the 47 total wifi devices on my network, only 5 are Wifi 6. I needed a mesh).
I like Alien. Sure, the config options are quite a bit less than on the RA120, but functionality, range, etc work for me. It's been totally stable, mesh works (802,1 r, k, v seems implemented well, and accessible in the web config) and speed has been good. Nothing outrageously super - but no issues.
Also, high band are supported (I am on 161 right now). They are not manually selectable yet (only the low bands are) which they are supposedly working on (just like DFS, 180 Mhz - I am not counting on either though). Obviously no 6Ghz, but I am ok buying a new router in 2-3 years when there is a chance I actually have a client that supports it
So, my 2 cents.

 

[psychopomp1]

Did you return this? If not, what are your long term comments on the Alien? They seem to continuously sell out, but no one (other than right here) has reported anything about the performance of the router. I'm personally running a pair of Asus AX Zenwifi systems, but am not happy with the signal strength ( which is why I have four instead of just two ). I'd love to hear a few more experiences, especially in a difficult wireless environment.

Yeah I sold my Alien to some Ubiquiti fanboy on eBay UK for £420, so got my money back. I suspect they are only selling well because

a) They are made by Ubiqitui (who admittedly do make good enterprise grade APs)
b) The router is a very attractive piece of kit

IMHO the Alien is a classic case of form over function, Ubiquiti should stick with ceiling APs. If Tim Higgins ever did in-depth throughput tests on the Alien, it would end up being a mid range router - nothing more nothing less. Certainly not worth $390.

 

[thiggins]

If Tim Higgins ever did in-depth throughput tests on the Alien, it would end up being a mid range router - nothing more nothing less.

I actually bought one to review it. But returned it when I could not get any response from Ubiquiti to questions I had on OFDMA and other feature support.

 

[RMerlin]

I actually bought one to review it. But returned it when I could not get any response from Ubiquiti to questions I had on OFDMA and other feature support.

Aren't Ubiquity one of those companies who took you off their Christmas cards list due to a past unfavorable review of one of their products?